Mark Miwurdz

Dead simple question really.....

Working on the premise that you don't get something for nothing, what's the long-term effect on reliability if you go for an aftermarket chip? Some of the claimed increases in torque and power seem too good to be true - but what's the trade-off?

Cheers
Kav

mik

Most TDI's are pretty "robust" and will handle a power increase with realative ease. They're designed to run on various fuel qualities, so in the UK (with our relatively good diesel) there should be no massive effect on engine life ~ particularly if you take care when warming up etc.

If you run it all day with your foot to the floor however, I'm sure it will wear out faster than a std car treated the same way.

Clutch and gearbox life may be reduced of course due to torque increases.

Bear in mind it's relatively easy to increase the performance of a TDI compared to a petrol ~ don't need stochiometric air/fuel mix and don't need to re-map ignition curves for various loads (the former being true as they take a full lung of air every stroke, the latter as there is no spark ignition).

Most remaps advance the initial fuel injection point, hold injectors open for longer, and request more boost (within turbo manufacturers spec limits of course). Bit more complex than that with modern TDI pre-injection systems etc, but still much simpler than petrol.

Tuning boxes can only increase injection duration, which indirectly leads to more boost.

smanning

I have a tuning box on my A4 TDI Quattro, has had a massive effect on power and torque. Definately made the car more drivable, and provided you dont abuse it should have no effect on the car at all.

... and you can remove the tuning box in about 5 minutes and move to another car!!!

Phone Peter on 07836 205205 if you want more data on the Bromley Unit www.bromley.co.uk

Steve

slippyr4

Biggest trade off with a chip is fuel economy. They chip manufacturors try and lie about this by severely mis quoting statictics. But you lose fuel economy for sure.

I do wonder what's the point though. Did you buy a diesel for it's performance? Or for economy?

Paulo P

iTrader: (42)

Does this mean you can just wind the boost up a little and the fueling can sort its self out? Also can you put a dump valve on a diesel? My sister has a 306 turbo diesell and she want's a dump valve on it, I think it has a standard re-circ one but it has no vacuum pipe like a normal turbo

Paul

mik

Or both?
Diesel has a (slightly) higher calorific content, so it's marginally more efficient when producing the same goods as a petrol. Without a throttle though, they are far more efficient at anything other than full throttle. Remaps can indeed be more efficient if you aint using the extra welly.

Nope
Extra fueling will indirectly cause extra boost though.



[/i]

[Edited by mik - 12/17/2002 1:01:17 PM]

brickboy

Diesels don't have a dump valve -- they don't need one because there is no "throttle" flap in the intake. Putting your foot down simply increases the fuelling, there is no restriction on airflow.

Turning up the boost doesn't really help unless you up the fuelling -- the whole point of the turbo is to supply much more air than the engine can use to ensure optimally clean combustion.

Flat 4x4

Going back to the thread title:-

1) I've chipped/new ECU'd/tuning-boxed three diesels (Combined mileage 80k) with no related failures.

2) I found fuel consumption worsened by 5-10% (ie 3-4 mpg)

3) Ignore all power/torque claims of 30% unless you rolling road
them. The best % increase I had without visible black smoke
(over-fuelling) was 21%

4) On the question 'why do it' ?
Well, my last one had 285lb/ft, 179bhp averaged 36mpg (Impreza
did 24mpg) and that was a heavy quattro estate.

?) Would I do it again on my next diesel ? Definitely

Tommy 2000

Van Aaken 'interfered' with my 306 D Turbo a few years ago (92 bhp to a claimed 120bhp) and it made a noticeable difference

Mark Miwurdz

Flat 4x4

What's the way forward? Chip, new ECU or tuning box - I'm really interested in pros and cons.

Thanks mate
Kav

ChrisB

The APR remap for the 2002 Ibiza TDi Sport (130PD engine) is dyno proven at around 180BHP and 300lb/ft. Standard is 130BHP and 225lb/ft, so 38% and 33% increase approx

Mark Miwurdz

Chris

Who's APR?

Cheers
Kav

brickboy

Mark,

the general feeling you get from forums like TDIclub is that tuning boxes are good in terms of bang-for-the-buck -- generally £300 fitted and a useful power boost. Also they're usually easy to remove for servicing / warranty issues. The drawback seems to be that they suit some engines better than others, and they can be a little crude (although most fitters seem to offer a "tune it to your car" service now).

An ECU remap is more thorough and obviously suits indiviual cars better, but is typically £400+, takes time to fit and may not be easily reversible.

The other thing is, there's a healthy trade on Ebay etc for tuning boxes once the owners sells the car, so you can get some of your money back.

ChrisB

They're VW/Audi/Seat/Skoda tuners.

http://www.apreurope.com/

http://www.apreurope.com/products/ec..._pd_diesel.htm is probably of particular interest.

Some discussion of the APR remaps on the Ibiza in here too:

http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/foru...?s=&forumid=29

Paul_M

So with a diesel having no throttle to stall the turbo on lift-off why do some have massive lag? Worst I've driven is the Mondeo 1.8TD which is renowned for being a dog of an engine (all older Ford diesels are), you have to get it between 2000-3500 RPM to get any power at all and even in this band if you lift off and reapply the accelerator it takes about a second to come back on boost.

Makes overtaking a nightmare, cos of the narrow power band you inevitably have to change gear half way through and even if the revs stay within the power band the lag is still unbelievable. Don't understand what causes this if it has no throttle being shut and must have quite a small turbo cos it apparently produces well short of 1 bar boost.

TDCi is much better though!

Flat 4x4

Of the three ways of tuning ( or 4 if you include mechanical!)
I'd go for a custom remap of the existing ECU on your car if it's modern enough to allow it.

A bit like a Tek3 on an Impreza or should that be DERV3 ?!

Mark Miwurdz

Cheers all!

RB5#295

To be fair though, the standard PD 130 engine has been dynoed at closer to 150 IIRC. APR still made one hell of a difference to my Ibiza (just ask the Golf 150 driver who decided he wouldn't bother trying to race me up the last bit Telegraph Hill last night (after I got held up 1/2 way up and he caught me).

Fen