GialloEvoII

As it says, Vehicle 2002 KIA Sedona 2.9 common rail. £20 quid petrol (not put in by me I might add) and about 15 quid diesel already in it. Then driven for 15 miles approx.

The story so far this is my second vehicle as the first one had the same fault as this one the fuel pump was destroying its self and recirculating metal fillings round the system back to the tank etc.Delphi the fuel system manufacturer have addressed this problem and are currently replacing fuel systems as and when they go down and have rectified the problem on new systems.


Result they couldn't fix it and had to give me a new vehicle Jan of this year. This vehicle has had petrol put in it and the pump has self destructed .from time to time this vehicle has suffered loss of power and the engine management light has come on. When it went for a service this was mentioned to the dealer but was not a huge issue and I didn't make much fuss.

My thought (and a suggestion by a diesel specialist) was the pump already causing problems prior to the petrol being put in?

Should my insurance cover this as accidental damage? Norwich union say no


Any sugestions would be of help.

I am spoken with Kia and Delphi and both are going down the line of sorry you have caused the damage so are offering no help.

This system is very common it is fitted to kia's and fords and other makes. Delphi used to be lucas.Also they also tell me that bosch and other high pressure common rail systems will do exactly the same damage.

How can a modern vehicle be so fragile!

Denzil_Dog

who put petrol in it in the first place ?
and why the **** did they do it :O

Steve Perriam

mate of mine did this with an ibiza 1.9 TDi this week and a garage sorted it out in 2 hours by simple flushing the system afaik !

seems like they using the diesel fuel epsiode to not have to fix an already known fault ?

Pete Croney

Did it myself once.

Put 75 litres of SUL in my Trooper. Only realised my mistake when I pointed to may car when paying and the bloke said "Blimey mate, that must cost a fortune to run on super unleaded"

Doh

Had it recovered to work and we drained it. As the ignition had not been turned on, it was OK.

GialloEvoII

Yes i have also done it before and realised before starting the engine but in this case it was driven.I have spoken at length with Kia and they are not interested ,Also they are now saying that i never told them the light had come on when i took it in for a service.

Delphi technical were more helpfull and said that Kia could obtain any fault codes prior to the petrol going in Kia said they cant.

Ford also say exactly the same even if any dust gets in during service it also ***** the system .

Patt@firstime

I did it earlier this year while on my hols in France, had a DHSE Range Rover (diesel) pulled into petrol station filled up with (what I thought was) £60 quids worth of diesel ) pulled back onto motorway, mile or so down the road it cuts out!!! (Ever tried pushing a fully loaded up Range Rover complete with 3 people inside?) To cut a long story short(ish), got towed to a local garage who drained and flushed the system. No lasting damage whatsoever

Matt

P.S Turned out that the garage had filled a diesel pump up with unleaded, and just my luck to find it!

cletterridge

What Car received a brand new diesel VW a while back and it wouldn't start at all, just turned over and smoked. Turned out the delivery guy had filled the first tank with petrol! Result: drained it, replaced with diesel and no damage whatsoever for many thousands of miles after.

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

Ive done this in a works van (diesel van but added 1/2 a tank of petrol to it )
I ran the van for a good 100 miles (it was early in the morning and i didnt notice till later on when i checked the receipt) but it should have no lasting damage if you keep topping it up with diesel (some people actually put petrol in a diesel in winter to get it turning over, approx 1/10th of a tankfull!)

Tony

hades

Once spotted a mechanic doing this. There he was, in the petrol station next to the Audi garage, with audi overalls on in an A4 TDi, holding an unleaded pump. Me "Excuse me, did you realise you were putting unleaded petrol in a TDi". "What, would it run better on superplus?" "No. TDi = Turbo Diesel" "Oh bu99er" leaps in, starts it up and drives to their garage with me shouting "No!" Don't buy any TDi audis from my local garage!

dhorwich

my mate did it twice in his renault 19 and it still survived..!!! he wondered why it wasnt pulling, turned his stereo down and it sounded very rough..!!!

Dan

GINGA

Putting petrol in a diesel can cause damage to the fuel injection pump if driven for any length of time as the pump is lubricated by the diesel and running petrol through it will leave it without lubrication and can cause damage unfaultunantly,but the low sulphur diesel that is sold in many garages also is causing damage to the pumps as its the sulphur in the diesel that lubricates it and causes the same metal fileings you mentioned,its a common problem on the non turbo transit engines for one example.

father_jack

So why is it £3464 for a new pump? Is the engine wrecked or does it still run ok?
I would either put it in the auctions or trade it, if it "can" run ok. Most main dealers rarely bother to test cars, especially a 2002 one, trade it for one of those £12k Passats they mentioned on Top Gear last week. You're under no obligation to tell them it has an intermittent fuel problem

Or....... find another KIA dealer 100 miles away and tell 'em you're on holiday and the warning light has come on and could they check it out please. They may not have a national computer system with the info of every car on it, or might not bother to check.
Re the petrol in a diesel thing, as everyone has said you can get away with it this way round. Look in the handbook for the car - my mates vw diesel said up to 30% is ok, just drive it out.
There must be some type of redex type additive for diesel to either sort it out, or quiet-down the pump for "trading" if it's noisy



[Edited by father_jack - 12/14/2002 2:34:09 PM]

mik

My better half filled my (3 week old) TDI (VAG) with petrol. It went approx 10 miles before grinding to a halt, at which point she churned it over for another couple of minutes trying to start it

Only damage was to my wallet for tank & pipes drain and a new filter.

By your comments, you had approx 50/50 mix after "the error". Can this level of mix really cause catastrophic fuel pump damage in so few miles? I don't believe it for one second. Not as if petrol has no lubricating properties - it's a feggin liquid for a start.

I'd seek independant advice ~ my local garage "consoled me" with news that they get at least one car per week with a similar fill-up error....if it caused £3k damage every time you'd hear about it.

Also check your manual for suitable fuel grades ~ our diesel here is of far better quality than in USA and other countries - I'm not a petrochemicals expert but I'd be surprised if it wasn't specced to run on fuels with lesser lubricating properties.....

GINGA

With a 50/50 mix I can't see it doing that much damage as i've done loads of motors where people have filled a diesel with petrol and its normally just a case of draining out the petrol and changing the fuel filter then refilling with diesel and everything is normally find unless you've been really unlucky and the petrol igniting to early in the engine has bent a conrod or something?
Imho it might be best to get a second opinion as i don't trust garages one bit and I work in one!!

clarence

Ultra-low Sulphur Diesel shouldn't cause any problems with engines, new or old. In Hong Kong, we been using that type of fuel since 1991, & no problems associated with them are reported by anyone.

GINGA

doesn't cause the engine problems just the fuel injection pumps

clarence

Really? I have not heard anyone talking abt fuel pump trouble over here, not from taxi drivers nor bus companies.

GialloEvoII

Cheers for all your replys.

The problem i have is that if a take it somewhere else Kia technical and customer service know all about it so i am sure it is not an option.

As for the problem with the car,The new high pressure diesel systems work at about 200 bar .That is enough pressure to cut metal hence not enough lube from the petrol/diesel mix the pump chews its self to bits.Any unused fuel is then returned to the tank along with a load of swarf and a couple of miles down the road and a shagged fuel system!

I have spoken to ford who use the delphi system and toyota who use a similar system and they both confirmed the same would happen if the incorrect fuel was entered into the system.

My next corse of action was to talk with another expert they said exactly the same.But they did confirm that up untill feb of this year(mine is pre feb) the fuel sytem had a fault on it where it would chew itsself up anyway (my first sedona did the same thing and they had to give me a new one).I had reported the engine management light coming on prior to its service to the dealer they said i didn't.My point being if the system had a fault anyway maybe the petrol just finished it off!they said no that could not have happened it was my fault .

I have since spoken to an engineer at delphi who is looking into helping me out in some way i will keep you posted he is going to ring me today!!

GialloEvoII

Reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeesult

The bloke from delphi has phoned me first thing and said the will suply all parts F.O.C. and i have to pay Labour charge of £500 + Vat better than a kick in the teeth so its off to the delphi agent wednesday.

Kia wanted £800 + Vat greedy b4rstards..

mik

Nice one

brickboy

Nice indeed -- that's more than meeting halfway.