Redkop

Yup the big turbo versions do have a lot more lag, depending on what stage the car is tuned to, they can melt a piston a lot easier than a small turbo one. A lot of small turbo Esc Cos's when chipped do tend to run lean - but dont seem to melt pistons like a big turbo version would!

Whether to have the whaletail or not was a factory option.

[Edited by Redkop - 12/7/2002 8:37:58 AM]

john banks

I would say it is the area under the power or torque (doesn't matter) curve that matters. But when I am driving like I mean business I can happily keep it above 5000 RPM.

I went in a 440 BHP Evo the other week and it didn't feel more than 10% more accelerative than my car at 350 BHP. Probably because I had about 80% of the torque and power and 10% less weight. Evos don't seem any cheaper to mod for big power than Scoobies though - this one had cost about £20K to modify for 440 BHP, although it had potential for 480 BHP with more tuning. I think I'll stick with the Scooby and rebuild the engine if it lets go.

[Edited by john banks - 12/8/2002 11:38:53 AM]

dazc2

the standard 200 block (standard in 4x4 sapphire and escort cossies), rods and crank are stong enough for 500+bhp.

this greatly reduces the cost as there is no need to buy steel crank and rods unless you want around 600 and above. the pistons do cost as you will look at about £600 for a set of genuine cosworth forged pistons at 7.2/1 compression ratio but you need to buy rings for them as well or further machine it to go to 7/1 comp ratio or what ever the engine builder specs.....the block can be long studded which reduces the stress on the head bolt threads....a YBO611 Group A (about £160 for full head set) head gasket at the very least is required but a multi layer steel gasket (about £400) is the best option (which is not reusable what ever anyone tells you)...

basically its not the bottom end that costs on a big bhp engine its the ancilliaries like the turbo, cams, ported head, intercooler......all these things add up but if you already have a some of these things on say something like a stage 3 the cost can be reduced even further..........

but you need to bear in mind the 4x4 MT75 (sapph 4x4 and escort box) box isnt capable of handling any more than 350bhp without modifications itself...a DPE gear kit at about £1300 will help that situation...the 2wd sapph and 3door/RS500 however have a very strong box (Borg Warner T5) which will handle a lot more power than the MT75.

i will stop waffling now

[Edited by dazc2 - 12/8/2002 1:46:46 PM]

dazc2

Toad,

The Cossie has a steel crank and rods as standard. They are of Cosworth design and are nothing to do with Ford other than they fit in their block.

I have never ever heard of a crank or rod fail on a Cossie except for oil starvartion which isnt the crank or rods fault. I have heard of many pistons melting due to faulty components or badly set up cars but never ever crank/rod failures, even at 500bhp with the standard crank/rods.

[Edited by dazc2 - 12/8/2002 7:30:22 PM]

john banks

Can you make an Escort Cosworth look like a normal shopping version with alloys so everyone doesn't want to nick it?

Any FAQs? I know little about Cossies except they can be very fast, have fabulous engines and ideally a mother of all turbos

Have looked on RSOC at some for sale.

john banks

http://www.22b.com/cossiefaq.htm Knew I had seen this somewhere. Head gaskets at every 15000 miles sounds a little offputting!

GINGA

easy to change though

LG John

John.........NO!!!!!

If your feeling constrained then go down the Supra/Skyline route

Crush

Go for it John Either that or a *cough* Evo

dazc2

head gaskets every 15000 miles?

thats only if you run a stage 3 tune/330bhp on a standard gasket....which no muppet does.....clever people fit a group A gasket and forget about it

ChrisG

That what you want John, you cannae go wrong with a Ford as they say
BTW Not got mine yet!!

john banks

Skyline too heavy. Evo too expensive to mod for big power.

Apparently if you fit the Grp A gasket you still need to change it regularly.

I would only be interested if the Cossie was 450 BHP+ since the Scooby has about 350 BHP (but stuck there really now).

Now where am I going to find a high power Evo or Skyline for decent money?

NDT

quote

http://www.22b.com/cossiefaq.htm Knew I had seen this somewhere. Head gaskets at every 15000 miles sounds a little offputting!

unquote

just had a look at that page.. there's definitely some useful info in there...
But not all of it is technically accurate.

Don't know about the 15000 mile headgasket thing.
Cosworth did have a few issues with gaskets, then changed to Reintz (IIRC) as a supplier and I believe the issues were largely resolved. I worked there at the time.

MarkCSC

Have a chat with Mike Rainbird http://www.scoobynet.co.uk/bbs/profi...?MemberID=1598
His Escort is running about 450bhp but with a custom gearbox as the standard one won't take that much power

co55ie

GRP A head gasket is good for 350bhp with little problem anymore and you would need to go for a WRC head gasket which costs around £400 plus fitting

imatrukahs

You can use the GrpA gasket on 500bhp if you wanted..would still last around 8000miles..

If your looking at 450bhp then its a T4 turbo for you...plus for reliability a wrc metal gasket which will last for ever if combined with the wrc long stud kit.As it looks your going 4x4 you will need a proper gearbox..ie swedish gear kit installed...grp A DIFFS ETC ETC...Big money...

Mike Rainbird is the gay..sorry i mean man you need to speak to..His runs 400bhp currently with all the right running gear..

Devil's Refugee

John,

Aren't the big turbo versions more prone to go bang ?
More tuneable than the smaller version but with more lag too.

You could remove the whaletail and keep the lower boot lip, I know they came without the whaletail on some of the later models to "tone down the look" a bit.

polarbearit

John,

If I were you I'd go for a big power skyline And your probably better off getting it from Japan rather the UK (many more to choose from at sensible prices).

Andy Barnes has got a couple for GTR register memebers and I believe recently bought an 800PS R32 - you can mail him on ANDY@KLEERFREIGHT.COM

They are surprisingly good value and with so much power a little extra wieght is no problem

Toad

If I can continue the point made above about the evo being to expensive for big horsepower.This is true as if you run big horsepower the engine needs to be fully modified accordingly to take the strain.But this is not just for evo's but for all cars including cossies.a 500+BHP cossie conversion is £20K plus.
But IMO big horse power means nothing.It is torque that makes a fast car.
For instance I went in a 380BHP evo 7 the other week.The engine had extensive work done on it and was running relatively low boost.The engine was mapped for torque and driveability and let me tell you it was by far the fastest car I have ever been in.The accelleration was unbelieveable.I have been in a big BHP skyline but this evo just blew it away.It pulled like a train from tickover and pulled right through to the redline.
Testament to the fact that you don't need big BHP to go very fast.


Toad.

RichardPON

Total unfounded bollox.

A 500bhp conversion will set you back around the 12k mark.

john banks

That is why I posted this as I gathered a Cossie might be a cheaper way to big power That suggests that under £20 on the second hand market there should be some real monsters. Need to look into it a fair bit to see what is good and what's not if I go this route.

Toad

Richard PON I have read that if you want a 500BHP conversion done properly it will cost the best of £20K plus.I have read and heard this in many magazines.£12K sounds way to cheap.There isn't a cheap way to power it will cost and anyone who tells you otherwise is talking crap.Thats probably why so many cossies blow up because the conversions have not been dome thouroughly enough.Most are probably to have the cams injectors and high boost and expect it to be reliable?Aint gonna happen!I am not saying I know it all because I certainly don't.But all my info comes from magazines and a wide array of tuners.At the end of the day there is no cheap route to outright power IMO.


Toad.

Toad

DAZC2 I respect your comments but I don't believe that the standard internals of a standard cossie engine could withstand over twice the power they were designed for!No wonder you here about so many blown cossie engines.BTW I don't want to start an argument i'm just going on from what I have read and been told.


Toad.

dingy

Cossie, wrc gasket is £280



Again another top tip from the man who knows it all

RichardPON

Toad,

Most cossie tuners will quote you around that mark for a 500bhp build.

You're talking brand new 200 bottom end, RS500 cooler, T4, 8 injector plenum, head work etc etc......

Some tuners do charge a fortune, and some people are prepared to pay it. I know one lot that charged a mate of mine 9k for a 360bhp rebuild, and he was prepared to pay it.

Some are cheap, some are expensive. Since dingy's watching this thread, I wouldn't say who, but he knows, as he's probably been to them all

martin_reyland

toad, you are misinformed std cosworth bottom end is good for
500 + hp, 12k will get you 500hp, not 20k.

dazc2

see....its not me feeding you bull shat...even people who have had 500bhp+ engines are backing me up

Marco Polo

Daz

I agree also the cossie bottom end is as hard as **** basically unbustable, have never ever heared of a broken crank

i've heard an seen alot of melted pistons thou , lol

Marco

dazc2

Marco,

i think we all know its a bad set up or a failed component causing lean mixture that is the common Cossie engine failure causes. Not mechanical failures