Any experiences of twin turbo Supras?
20 October 2002, 10:11 AM
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Just wondering if anyone has owned/experienced a twin turbo supra....if so what did you make of them. I know people say they are meddalion man cars etc but I'm of the opinion that its a very nice looking motor. Ive never been in/driven one and would love to hear some opinions on em. Cheers.
20 October 2002, 02:33 PM
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I chased one from Standstead area to Milton Keynes along the a507 etc - it was ok, blasted past it at about 130mp, and he kinda gave up - shame really. This was in a Merc CLK 430 BTW.
He had some nice flames out of his zorst as I followed it so I guess it was tuned up a bit. !
He had some nice flames out of his zorst as I followed it so I guess it was tuned up a bit. !
20 October 2002, 05:18 PM
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Had a non-turbo for 6 months before buying my 97 STi. But a few points to note:-
It never returned more than 21mpg no matter how hard I tried - although you get 6-gears with a TT so you should get better MPG on motorways.
Great around wet round-a-bouts and easy to control oversteer.
A b1tch to park! ie. too wide, doors long and you are sat low so a pain to get in/out of in tight carparks.
Mine was wearing 18" rims with the rears having 265/35 ZR rubber so expect over £200 per tyre!
No leg room in the back - a two plus two coupe remember
A shallow parcel shelf they call a boot.
Expensive insurance - £1260 with CAT1 as opposed to £795 (with CAT1 and trakker) for the STi so god knows how much a TT version would set you back!!
Never driven a TT but would like to.
Hope this assists but if your heart is set on one they are great cruisers and handle well for a big beast.
Nick
It never returned more than 21mpg no matter how hard I tried - although you get 6-gears with a TT so you should get better MPG on motorways.
Great around wet round-a-bouts and easy to control oversteer.
A b1tch to park! ie. too wide, doors long and you are sat low so a pain to get in/out of in tight carparks.
Mine was wearing 18" rims with the rears having 265/35 ZR rubber so expect over £200 per tyre!
No leg room in the back - a two plus two coupe remember
A shallow parcel shelf they call a boot.
Expensive insurance - £1260 with CAT1 as opposed to £795 (with CAT1 and trakker) for the STi so god knows how much a TT version would set you back!!
Never driven a TT but would like to.
Hope this assists but if your heart is set on one they are great cruisers and handle well for a big beast.
Nick
20 October 2002, 09:37 PM
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the TT insurance was the same for me as the non TT.
some TT's have a 5 spd box
The auto's are 4 speed but actually very good. Some say better than the manual??????
MPG is awful but economy isn't really a big factor when your buying a 300+bhp supercar!
Great fun tho...
some TT's have a 5 spd box
The auto's are 4 speed but actually very good. Some say better than the manual??????
MPG is awful but economy isn't really a big factor when your buying a 300+bhp supercar!
Great fun tho...
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21 October 2002, 01:03 AM
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Auto is as good as the manual - but not better. Choice of transmission is dependent on what the car is going to be used for - daily driver or weekend toy. Manual clutch is heavy, and gets rather tiring in traffic. Real-world performance difference is non-existent.
Economy is poor, 20mpg being about average.
Insurance for a UK-spec is about half that of imports. UK's have a few more toys, but are not really better/worse than imports, and imports will usually have lower mileage. Difference between NA and TT insurance for imports is little these days, and a UK TT (*all* UK's are TT's) will cost substantially less to insure than an import NA.
Getting hold of parts and servicing is no problem - Toyota garages are supposed to treat imports the same way they do official cars. Some can be a bit funny and awkward, and dealers are allowed to charge up to 20% more on labour. Mine doesn't (I have a UK anyway, but I have spoken to import owners who've used the same garage). If your local dealer gives you hassle, write a letter to Toyota GB informing them, and go elsewhere, there are plenty of Toyota dealers around.
Be careful on suspension/wheel mods - the cars are fairly sensitive, and uneducated messing can turn a car into a tail-happy accident waiting to happen. Seek advice first. UK cars are expensive to find wheels for, as the large front brakes eliminate anything 17", and lots of 18's. UK's have 17's a standard (a special shape to fit the brakes), imports mostly have 16's, although later imports had 17's as an option. 16" Rim width is 9" rear, 8" front for import, with tyres 245/50 rear and 225/50 front. 17's are 9.5" rear, 8" front, with tyres 255/45 rear and 235/45 front.
Standard UK suspension and wheel setup looks a bit bland, but is superb at sticking the car to the road. Import brakes are inadequate for the car, and a couple of hard stops soon results in their fading. Common upgrade is to UK brakes which are 315mm discs and 4-pot calipers. Later imports also had UK brakes as a factory option. Supras were still being made for JDM in extremely limited numbers until June this year, but official imports stopped in '96.
Standard traction control is actively dangerous (the only major fault with the car IMO). Disable as soon as possible, fit the utterly superior Racelogic system, and load the Supra-specific map into it.
Modding is pointless on the NA, and very easy on the TT. UK's have larger injectors, stronger steel-bladed turbos, slightly hotter cams, and theoretically makes more power. Having said that, full decat and boost controller on either import or UK will result in two indentically performing cars, with approx 350bhp/350lbft of torque. Imports develop torque lower down, but make slightly less of it. Again, in the real world it's unnoticable. UK's will happily take hybrids without any hassle, imports will require a UK-spec or greater fuel system. Both cars require uprated fuelling for a single turbo conversion. The basic engine is the same for both types, with the exception of the import-only VVTi. VVTi makes more torque at lower rpms, with a corresponding power hike. Downside is that it's a lot harder engine to majorly tune due to the added complexity of the VVTi. Basic mods are just as simple as the other types.
All UK's have a limited-slip diff, some low-spec imports don't. UK's have bonnet scoop and headlight washer jets, imports don't. Bonnet vent is for cooling the exhaust manifold, not for air intake. All UK's have an active front spoiler, some imports don't. No spoiler is not a problem, as you have to be going at very illegal speeds for its lack to show up. Some imports don't have rear wings - this is *usually* only on NA's, but there are some TT's without wings. Fitting of a wing is simple if desired. All UK's have leather heated seats, no import has heated seats, and some have cloth interior. The lowest spec import will weigh up to 100kg less than a UK, so no toys isn't all bad
If there is anything else you would like to know, either ask, or check out www.mkivsupra.net
Cheers
Keith
Economy is poor, 20mpg being about average.
Insurance for a UK-spec is about half that of imports. UK's have a few more toys, but are not really better/worse than imports, and imports will usually have lower mileage. Difference between NA and TT insurance for imports is little these days, and a UK TT (*all* UK's are TT's) will cost substantially less to insure than an import NA.
Getting hold of parts and servicing is no problem - Toyota garages are supposed to treat imports the same way they do official cars. Some can be a bit funny and awkward, and dealers are allowed to charge up to 20% more on labour. Mine doesn't (I have a UK anyway, but I have spoken to import owners who've used the same garage). If your local dealer gives you hassle, write a letter to Toyota GB informing them, and go elsewhere, there are plenty of Toyota dealers around.
Be careful on suspension/wheel mods - the cars are fairly sensitive, and uneducated messing can turn a car into a tail-happy accident waiting to happen. Seek advice first. UK cars are expensive to find wheels for, as the large front brakes eliminate anything 17", and lots of 18's. UK's have 17's a standard (a special shape to fit the brakes), imports mostly have 16's, although later imports had 17's as an option. 16" Rim width is 9" rear, 8" front for import, with tyres 245/50 rear and 225/50 front. 17's are 9.5" rear, 8" front, with tyres 255/45 rear and 235/45 front.
Standard UK suspension and wheel setup looks a bit bland, but is superb at sticking the car to the road. Import brakes are inadequate for the car, and a couple of hard stops soon results in their fading. Common upgrade is to UK brakes which are 315mm discs and 4-pot calipers. Later imports also had UK brakes as a factory option. Supras were still being made for JDM in extremely limited numbers until June this year, but official imports stopped in '96.
Standard traction control is actively dangerous (the only major fault with the car IMO). Disable as soon as possible, fit the utterly superior Racelogic system, and load the Supra-specific map into it.
Modding is pointless on the NA, and very easy on the TT. UK's have larger injectors, stronger steel-bladed turbos, slightly hotter cams, and theoretically makes more power. Having said that, full decat and boost controller on either import or UK will result in two indentically performing cars, with approx 350bhp/350lbft of torque. Imports develop torque lower down, but make slightly less of it. Again, in the real world it's unnoticable. UK's will happily take hybrids without any hassle, imports will require a UK-spec or greater fuel system. Both cars require uprated fuelling for a single turbo conversion. The basic engine is the same for both types, with the exception of the import-only VVTi. VVTi makes more torque at lower rpms, with a corresponding power hike. Downside is that it's a lot harder engine to majorly tune due to the added complexity of the VVTi. Basic mods are just as simple as the other types.
All UK's have a limited-slip diff, some low-spec imports don't. UK's have bonnet scoop and headlight washer jets, imports don't. Bonnet vent is for cooling the exhaust manifold, not for air intake. All UK's have an active front spoiler, some imports don't. No spoiler is not a problem, as you have to be going at very illegal speeds for its lack to show up. Some imports don't have rear wings - this is *usually* only on NA's, but there are some TT's without wings. Fitting of a wing is simple if desired. All UK's have leather heated seats, no import has heated seats, and some have cloth interior. The lowest spec import will weigh up to 100kg less than a UK, so no toys isn't all bad
If there is anything else you would like to know, either ask, or check out www.mkivsupra.net
Cheers
Keith
22 October 2002, 01:19 PM
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Deceptively fast. It's a big, heavy car, yet still fairly nimble. You can't take the **** in corners like in a AWD car, as it'll bite you on the **** so hard you won't know what year it is, but provided you use smooth actions it'll corner well enough to shock the hell out of a lot of smaller cars. Its sheer size and weight can mute some sensations a little, but it's still a very communicative and enjoyable drive.
Due to its size, power and extremely smooth delivery of the engine, you can find yourself going a *lot* faster than you thought you were - it'll happily cruise at 140+, yet be quiet enough inside to hold a normal volume conversation. When I say cruise I mean it - at 85mph it's just about doing 3000rpm in 6th, and at 100mph it's only just switched to twin-turbo mode and will actually accelerate faster above 100mph than it does below.
The single-twin transition is great fun, as it gives a great big surge in power at 4000rpm, and on my car (full decat. bleed valve) results in an increase of 150bhp and 100lbft of torque in less than 1000rpm. It's basically the same feeling as you get off a car with a largish single turbo, but you're *already* making a load of boost before it happens
.
There is no such thing as 'off-boost' with Supra's - when decatted I'm making very slight positive boost at as little as 1000rpm, up to over 10psi by 2000rpm. At 3500rpm this drops slightly to about as it pre-spools no.2, then at 4000rpm no.2 comes fully on-line and my boost shoots round to about 1.1/1.2 bar before slowly dropping off (due to the bleed valve - a proper EBC would hold 1.2 up to redline) to about 1bar. Stock boost off no.1 is 7psi, with twin mode making 11psi. This results, like I say, in a brutal surge of acceleration which is sustained right up to redline. It's less noticeable in autos as it's smoothed out a little by the torque converter, and J-specs also have a less violent change over due to the faster spool of their ceramic turbos. This can be a good thing, as the sudden increase in power and torque can often spin the wheels if you're not careful, especially when modded. All I can suggest is go somewhere like http://www.japanese-car-imports.co.uk/ where they will let you drive all sorts of cars; auto, manual, TT, NA, etc.
The straight-six engine is smoothness embodied. Docile when necessary, it can often suprise people that such a comfy, smooth, well-mannered car turns into such a violent hooligan when let off the leash. A straight-six is a naturally perfectly balanced engine, and when matched to an auto box means you just get this nice wave of torque that effortlessly washes you along the road. The car requires no thrashing to make it move - mine makes 170lbft right down at 1500rpm.
It's also quite happy on a track, even the autos. The auto can have a problem at times, as on some tight corners 2nd is a bit too long, and 1st results in lots of tail-out action unless you're very careful. The auto has a manual change mode that is extremely effective, allowing you to lock the box into a gear out of which it will not change, even if you bounce it off the rev limiter. It also will not allow you to change down into a gear which will over-rev the engine. One guy with a j-spec auto at an Elise event had great fun suprising the hell out of them by not only being faster on the straights, but managing to stick with them through the corners (stay off the pedals and the Supra has almost completely neutral handling). Another guy (who build F3000 race cars, so knows how to drive) sold his j-spec auto TT, bought an R33 Skyline, and found the Skyline was lapping only slightly faster, despite the advantges of AWD and manual transmission.
The manual is perfectly happy on track though, as the ratios are very well spaced, and a gear change made at or near redline drops you back to just after the beginning of the twin mode powerband. A manual Supra on a track is a very fun thing to drive, and you can make some serious speed without too much apparent effort.
One downside is that the weight of the car means that a trackday will cost usually cost you a set of front pads, and single-figure mpg is normal. Normally takes about 2000 miles off the life of a set of tyres too.
Anything else you want to know?
Due to its size, power and extremely smooth delivery of the engine, you can find yourself going a *lot* faster than you thought you were - it'll happily cruise at 140+, yet be quiet enough inside to hold a normal volume conversation. When I say cruise I mean it - at 85mph it's just about doing 3000rpm in 6th, and at 100mph it's only just switched to twin-turbo mode and will actually accelerate faster above 100mph than it does below.
The single-twin transition is great fun, as it gives a great big surge in power at 4000rpm, and on my car (full decat. bleed valve) results in an increase of 150bhp and 100lbft of torque in less than 1000rpm. It's basically the same feeling as you get off a car with a largish single turbo, but you're *already* making a load of boost before it happens
. There is no such thing as 'off-boost' with Supra's - when decatted I'm making very slight positive boost at as little as 1000rpm, up to over 10psi by 2000rpm. At 3500rpm this drops slightly to about as it pre-spools no.2, then at 4000rpm no.2 comes fully on-line and my boost shoots round to about 1.1/1.2 bar before slowly dropping off (due to the bleed valve - a proper EBC would hold 1.2 up to redline) to about 1bar. Stock boost off no.1 is 7psi, with twin mode making 11psi. This results, like I say, in a brutal surge of acceleration which is sustained right up to redline. It's less noticeable in autos as it's smoothed out a little by the torque converter, and J-specs also have a less violent change over due to the faster spool of their ceramic turbos. This can be a good thing, as the sudden increase in power and torque can often spin the wheels if you're not careful, especially when modded. All I can suggest is go somewhere like http://www.japanese-car-imports.co.uk/ where they will let you drive all sorts of cars; auto, manual, TT, NA, etc.
The straight-six engine is smoothness embodied. Docile when necessary, it can often suprise people that such a comfy, smooth, well-mannered car turns into such a violent hooligan when let off the leash. A straight-six is a naturally perfectly balanced engine, and when matched to an auto box means you just get this nice wave of torque that effortlessly washes you along the road. The car requires no thrashing to make it move - mine makes 170lbft right down at 1500rpm.
It's also quite happy on a track, even the autos. The auto can have a problem at times, as on some tight corners 2nd is a bit too long, and 1st results in lots of tail-out action unless you're very careful. The auto has a manual change mode that is extremely effective, allowing you to lock the box into a gear out of which it will not change, even if you bounce it off the rev limiter. It also will not allow you to change down into a gear which will over-rev the engine. One guy with a j-spec auto at an Elise event had great fun suprising the hell out of them by not only being faster on the straights, but managing to stick with them through the corners (stay off the pedals and the Supra has almost completely neutral handling). Another guy (who build F3000 race cars, so knows how to drive) sold his j-spec auto TT, bought an R33 Skyline, and found the Skyline was lapping only slightly faster, despite the advantges of AWD and manual transmission.
The manual is perfectly happy on track though, as the ratios are very well spaced, and a gear change made at or near redline drops you back to just after the beginning of the twin mode powerband. A manual Supra on a track is a very fun thing to drive, and you can make some serious speed without too much apparent effort.
One downside is that the weight of the car means that a trackday will cost usually cost you a set of front pads, and single-figure mpg is normal. Normally takes about 2000 miles off the life of a set of tyres too.
Anything else you want to know?
22 October 2002, 10:53 PM
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I have always found I back off way before the car ever reaches its limits in corners. The real failing as Keith says is when the second turbo comes on line and the car is part way through a corner or coming off a roundabout. The back end will swing round nicely. You just need to give it lots of respect in the wet and drive it hard in the dry.
Put one on a nice track, Donno or similar, and it will keep up with most things on there, it can be beaten for handling, but makes up for it with acceleration.
Buy a twin turbo and you suddenly start looking for reasons to go places, you take the back roads instead of motorways and you will find it gets a lot of looks.
Worth buying one if thats the sort of car you want, I really enjoy my twin turbo and wouldnt consider anything else (well maybe an RX7...maybe)
JB
www.mkivsupra.net
www.jpsmotorsport.com
Put one on a nice track, Donno or similar, and it will keep up with most things on there, it can be beaten for handling, but makes up for it with acceleration.
Buy a twin turbo and you suddenly start looking for reasons to go places, you take the back roads instead of motorways and you will find it gets a lot of looks.
Worth buying one if thats the sort of car you want, I really enjoy my twin turbo and wouldnt consider anything else (well maybe an RX7...maybe)
JB
www.mkivsupra.net
www.jpsmotorsport.com
23 October 2002, 09:07 PM
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Yup, and after seeing it I wanted one ! Its not often I can be influenced by film but I was sold when I saw this. I even went down to my local Importer to test drive a 95 Black TT Manual with Blitz box. Dam thing was sold, it had been for sale before I got my Scoob and I was half thinking about it but just bit the bullit and got the scoob 
. But a test drive would of been handy. It seems to me that Supras and Scoobs are totally different beasts. I would of though the Supra would have more top end grunt than the scoob and reversed for low down power. For me with most of my traveling all local I thought the scoob would be better.
So has anyone who owns a scoob got any views of driving these cars ??
. But a test drive would of been handy. It seems to me that Supras and Scoobs are totally different beasts. I would of though the Supra would have more top end grunt than the scoob and reversed for low down power. For me with most of my traveling all local I thought the scoob would be better. So has anyone who owns a scoob got any views of driving these cars ??
23 October 2002, 09:55 PM
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>Anybody seen 'Getaway in Stockholm 2'?
>This is how a Supra goes
I know that says '450bhp Supra' or something, but to be honest, my car (with less than a grand of mods) is probably nearly that fast. I've had it up to over 175 (micrometers per week officer ) on the speedo, still accelerating, so I know it's capable of more. A *standard* Supra is apparently capable of 180mph *true* speed given enough of a straight!
The Supra, from my experiences, has more grunt both low end *and* top end. I honestly mean no disrespect, and I'm fully aware of the considerable cornering abilities of a scoob, but the Supra is a £40k+ car, and the Scoob a £20k+ one - and it does show in sheer power and torque. A scoob revs higher (redline on the Supra is a comparitively lazy 7000rpm), but a Supra has sheer displacement *and* extremely low revs boost as an advantage.
>This is how a Supra goes
I know that says '450bhp Supra' or something, but to be honest, my car (with less than a grand of mods) is probably nearly that fast. I've had it up to over 175 (micrometers per week officer
) on the speedo, still accelerating, so I know it's capable of more. A *standard* Supra is apparently capable of 180mph *true* speed given enough of a straight!The Supra, from my experiences, has more grunt both low end *and* top end. I honestly mean no disrespect, and I'm fully aware of the considerable cornering abilities of a scoob, but the Supra is a £40k+ car, and the Scoob a £20k+ one - and it does show in sheer power and torque. A scoob revs higher (redline on the Supra is a comparitively lazy 7000rpm), but a Supra has sheer displacement *and* extremely low revs boost as an advantage.
24 October 2002, 01:36 PM
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Cheers..any other contributions..this has been a very worthy thread with some very helpful comments.....not the usual 'my scoob ill kikk yer ****' crap...NICE1!
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