E39 M5 on Track
17 December 2014, 09:53 AM
#1
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Lancashire (Not Dundee Anymore)
Posts: 837
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
E39 M5 on Track
Right then, after deciding the car Ive been lusting after for over a decade is suitable for everything I want, Ive then realised it might not be suitable for track days.
Now it would be a daily, with probably 6-8 track days a year maximum. With uprated fluid & pads (as a minimum) would the E39 M5 handle trackdays? Im not a mega hard driver...
Now it would be a daily, with probably 6-8 track days a year maximum. With uprated fluid & pads (as a minimum) would the E39 M5 handle trackdays? Im not a mega hard driver...
17 December 2014, 10:07 AM
#2
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (9)
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: .
Posts: 20,035
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yes I wouldn't be worried about it as they are built to last, but expect to eat tyres and pads as it's a relatively heavy car.
However good examples are increasing in price so you need to realise you will be devaluing the car by piling miles on it and tracking it yet paying quite a lot up front for a good one!
I looked at these 5 years ago and values have certainly gone up since then for good condition unmolested examples.
Beautiful car though, I can see why you would want one.
However good examples are increasing in price so you need to realise you will be devaluing the car by piling miles on it and tracking it yet paying quite a lot up front for a good one!
I looked at these 5 years ago and values have certainly gone up since then for good condition unmolested examples.
Beautiful car though, I can see why you would want one.
17 December 2014, 10:54 AM
#3
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Lancashire (Not Dundee Anymore)
Posts: 837
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My budget is probably £8000 and from what Ive seen theres a few of examples with around 120k on. Is the weight an issue on track? My brain says get an E46 M3, and modify it. But then my brain also says "Just keep the STI"
17 December 2014, 12:12 PM
#5
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (9)
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: .
Posts: 20,035
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If you are a hardened lightweight track car enthusiast it will probably feel too heavy on track, but if, like me, you just like having a blat round a track in a well sorted great handling car then the M5 will be perfect. It belies its weight to some extent due to the engineering.
Have you driven one btw?
17 December 2014, 12:24 PM
#6
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Mars
Posts: 11,470
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Read "search for the perfect dram" by Ian Banks. He tours around Scotland in an E39 M5 searching for the best whisky; it's brilliant,brilliant book!
The E39 is my favourite M5 by far.
The E39 is my favourite M5 by far.
17 December 2014, 12:55 PM
#7
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Lancashire (Not Dundee Anymore)
Posts: 837
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
M3s are lovely cars, but the E39 M5 is special. Get a good well maintained one and just make sure you have the budget to keep it well looked after and you will have a car that will at least hold its value.
If you are a hardened lightweight track car enthusiast it will probably feel too heavy on track, but if, like me, you just like having a blat round a track in a well sorted great handling car then the M5 will be perfect. It belies its weight to some extent due to the engineering.
Have you driven one btw?
If you are a hardened lightweight track car enthusiast it will probably feel too heavy on track, but if, like me, you just like having a blat round a track in a well sorted great handling car then the M5 will be perfect. It belies its weight to some extent due to the engineering.
Have you driven one btw?
What I want to do with my STI, is half cage, nice wide 18s, possibly a bucket seat, decent tyres and drive the **** off it. Thats the same I'd do to an E46 M3. But with coilovers and a brake upgrade. Ive always loved the idea of a modified track focused prestige car (basically like an M3 GTS or 911 GT3 RS). I also cant keep any of my cars standard. Thats the thing. With the E39 M5, in my eyes, its one of the best looking cars ever. [My girlfriend thinks it looks like an old man's car, but she likes 2CVs!] My point is that I wouldnt want to put a cage in the M5, or change the wheels. So I may get bored with it.....
Unless I just concentrate on running it, polishing it, and driving it!
Trending Topics
17 December 2014, 01:02 PM
#8
I know it's a different beast, but I had an E60 535D and felt it was too big to be properly hustled along any kind of B road adequately. I could just feel the weight all the time. As such, I doubt I'd consider even an E60 M5 as a suitable track toy.
Having said that, there was a gentleman on the track day I did this weekend past running a 430hp Bently Turbo R with all kinds of crazy track mods done to it. Looked (and sounded) like a riot!
Having said that, there was a gentleman on the track day I did this weekend past running a 430hp Bently Turbo R with all kinds of crazy track mods done to it. Looked (and sounded) like a riot!
17 December 2014, 01:14 PM
#9
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (9)
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: .
Posts: 20,035
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
No not driven one. Lusted after one ever since my teens. I did my usual check every few months on prices and noticed they'd fell to £6500 for the cheapest, so naturally I thought my budget of approx £8000 should net me a decent one. I was worried about running costs, but now the VANOS issues seems to be well catered for there doesnt seem to be too many hidden costs. Although my Golf TDI cost me a small fortune as it kept going wrong. High mileage of the cars I'm looking at is putting me off too.
What I want to do with my STI, is half cage, nice wide 18s, possibly a bucket seat, decent tyres and drive the **** off it. Thats the same I'd do to an E46 M3. But with coilovers and a brake upgrade. Ive always loved the idea of a modified track focused prestige car (basically like an M3 GTS or 911 GT3 RS). I also cant keep any of my cars standard. Thats the thing. With the E39 M5, in my eyes, its one of the best looking cars ever. [My girlfriend thinks it looks like an old man's car, but she likes 2CVs!] My point is that I wouldnt want to put a cage in the M5, or change the wheels. So I may get bored with it.....
Unless I just concentrate on running it, polishing it, and driving it!
What I want to do with my STI, is half cage, nice wide 18s, possibly a bucket seat, decent tyres and drive the **** off it. Thats the same I'd do to an E46 M3. But with coilovers and a brake upgrade. Ive always loved the idea of a modified track focused prestige car (basically like an M3 GTS or 911 GT3 RS). I also cant keep any of my cars standard. Thats the thing. With the E39 M5, in my eyes, its one of the best looking cars ever. [My girlfriend thinks it looks like an old man's car, but she likes 2CVs!] My point is that I wouldnt want to put a cage in the M5, or change the wheels. So I may get bored with it.....
Unless I just concentrate on running it, polishing it, and driving it!
I wouldn't worry about the mileage as they can take it with ease, but make sure it has a proper maintenance record
Oh and thanks for making me want one ... again
17 December 2014, 02:01 PM
#11
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (5)
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: North Yorkshire / Boston, MA
Posts: 1,907
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
No not driven one. Lusted after one ever since my teens. I did my usual check every few months on prices and noticed they'd fell to £6500 for the cheapest, so naturally I thought my budget of approx £8000 should net me a decent one. I was worried about running costs, but now the VANOS issues seems to be well catered for there doesnt seem to be too many hidden costs. Although my Golf TDI cost me a small fortune as it kept going wrong. High mileage of the cars I'm looking at is putting me off too.
What I want to do with my STI, is half cage, nice wide 18s, possibly a bucket seat, decent tyres and drive the **** off it. Thats the same I'd do to an E46 M3. But with coilovers and a brake upgrade. Ive always loved the idea of a modified track focused prestige car (basically like an M3 GTS or 911 GT3 RS). I also cant keep any of my cars standard. Thats the thing. With the E39 M5, in my eyes, its one of the best looking cars ever. [My girlfriend thinks it looks like an old man's car, but she likes 2CVs!] My point is that I wouldnt want to put a cage in the M5, or change the wheels. So I may get bored with it.....
Unless I just concentrate on running it, polishing it, and driving it!
What I want to do with my STI, is half cage, nice wide 18s, possibly a bucket seat, decent tyres and drive the **** off it. Thats the same I'd do to an E46 M3. But with coilovers and a brake upgrade. Ive always loved the idea of a modified track focused prestige car (basically like an M3 GTS or 911 GT3 RS). I also cant keep any of my cars standard. Thats the thing. With the E39 M5, in my eyes, its one of the best looking cars ever. [My girlfriend thinks it looks like an old man's car, but she likes 2CVs!] My point is that I wouldnt want to put a cage in the M5, or change the wheels. So I may get bored with it.....
Unless I just concentrate on running it, polishing it, and driving it!
Spend another summer in the STI, if you've only just "got into" trackdays you'll still have a massive ceiling for fun and exploration in the Subaru
17 December 2014, 02:31 PM
#12
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Lancashire (Not Dundee Anymore)
Posts: 837
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You know what, thats a very good point!
I'll be having 18s for looks but keeping my standard Enkei wheels with RE070s on. When they die maybe put some R888s on.
I'll be having 18s for looks but keeping my standard Enkei wheels with RE070s on. When they die maybe put some R888s on.
17 December 2014, 02:44 PM
#13
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (5)
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: North Yorkshire / Boston, MA
Posts: 1,907
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
I have however just come into the possession of some 17" Team Dynamic prorace 1.2s which will become my R888 wheels, and I'll use the Enkei's on the road (selling the PFF7's) as I find the 17" driving experience so much better.
Slightly off topic, I do feel your pain though - there are so many cars I want to try out for my budget but the Impreza keeps continuing to impress and surprise me. Track days are a great way to keep your interest levels up in your car.
17 December 2014, 03:05 PM
#14
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Lancashire (Not Dundee Anymore)
Posts: 837
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yeah that's the thing! I really want to try the whole German performance car thing too. Also when I decide to keep my car and buy some bits I can never find what I want lol. Constant frustration!
17 December 2014, 06:30 PM
#18
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (25)
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: MSOC
Posts: 3,135
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What new ages have you got ? If its non dccd cars than its night and day to what the proper scoob feels like with fully locked diff setting on the track. E39 will be too heavy for 7 track days a year lol thats 1 track day in 2 months. A set of pads and tyres will keep do you 2 track days with 1.8t . I had a new age before and it was already heavy barge to strt from 1430kg.
its a perfect fast road car e39 m5 not a track car. The amount of track days you plan doesnt make it an occasional track day anymore either. E46 M3 was pretty interesting on track . Still being 1.5t plus felt heavy but fun and adjustable as you can flick the tail out if you want.
its a perfect fast road car e39 m5 not a track car. The amount of track days you plan doesnt make it an occasional track day anymore either. E46 M3 was pretty interesting on track . Still being 1.5t plus felt heavy but fun and adjustable as you can flick the tail out if you want.
17 December 2014, 06:44 PM
#21
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Lancashire (Not Dundee Anymore)
Posts: 837
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
But that is a hell of a lot of cost. If I had £20,000 to spend on a car I'd have accepted the company car I was offered and bought an Exige s
17 December 2014, 07:32 PM
#22
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (25)
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: MSOC
Posts: 3,135
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Exactly where. I had no problem with one at Brands hatch in my 410bhp bug. Power is not everything and e46 T cost a bit of money if done properly.
Someone talks sense here. I'd deffo recommend you to play with the settings 1st bud. It wil give you a driver dependand feeling that will make you work behind the wheel. Auto is good as daily. Nowadays you can even get a more sophisticated dccd controller for more adjustability. UK Widetrack is a fine machine if mapped just lacks of quick rack for my liking.
Saying that if you up for a change go for it. Or you'll stuck like i did preventing to explore all of the other quick cars which could possibly be even much better suited for your needs ATM.
Saying that if you up for a change go for it. Or you'll stuck like i did preventing to explore all of the other quick cars which could possibly be even much better suited for your needs ATM.
18 December 2014, 12:00 AM
#23
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Lancashire (Not Dundee Anymore)
Posts: 837
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think the idea of doing some more track days in my STI makes a lot of sense. I only just had it mapped in October. I'll get some arbs if I can see some for cheap enough. I did feel the weight of the car to be honest.
18 December 2014, 11:02 AM
#24
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (5)
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: North Yorkshire / Boston, MA
Posts: 1,907
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
I've been battling understeer all year, but battling in a "fun" way - learning my way around my local track, experimenting with ARB settings, tyre pressures and most critically the DCCD.
On the road, mine never leaves auto... I think I locked it once getting out of the drive in the snow.
On track, when understeering the DCCD can be opened up more which in turn allows you to rotate the car more through corners, which goes someway to neutralising some of the understeer that our chassis' implies.
On the road, mine never leaves auto... I think I locked it once getting out of the drive in the snow.
On track, when understeering the DCCD can be opened up more which in turn allows you to rotate the car more through corners, which goes someway to neutralising some of the understeer that our chassis' implies.
18 December 2014, 12:01 PM
#26
Administrator
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Blackpool, Uk. Destination: Rev Limiter.
Posts: 4,464
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The M3 is more nimble on the track, but loses out to the M5 in every single other respect as a car. Still got mine, and had the E60 for a while too but really didnt like it one bit.
The E39 Chassis was massively over engineered and I regard it as the last properly built BMW ever made.
Personally i would advise a set of EBC Yellow stuff as the materiel suits the weight of the car and ive tried a lot of stuff on it over the years...Change the fluid out for something like RBF 600 and change all the bushes to poly, especially the front arms.
Also, its worthwhile modifying the front grille to add the airducts fitted to the 540. No idea why they werent fitted to the M5 but they helped with fade on the long braking sections at the Nurburgring. A quick Google should find you teh part numbers of the missing ducts.
The E39 Chassis was massively over engineered and I regard it as the last properly built BMW ever made.
Personally i would advise a set of EBC Yellow stuff as the materiel suits the weight of the car and ive tried a lot of stuff on it over the years...Change the fluid out for something like RBF 600 and change all the bushes to poly, especially the front arms.
Also, its worthwhile modifying the front grille to add the airducts fitted to the 540. No idea why they werent fitted to the M5 but they helped with fade on the long braking sections at the Nurburgring. A quick Google should find you teh part numbers of the missing ducts.
Last edited by Evolution Stu; 18 December 2014 at 12:05 PM.
18 December 2014, 12:32 PM
#28
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (25)
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: MSOC
Posts: 3,135
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I've been battling understeer all year, but battling in a "fun" way - learning my way around my local track, experimenting with ARB settings, tyre pressures and most critically the DCCD.
On the road, mine never leaves auto... I think I locked it once getting out of the drive in the snow.
On track, when understeering the DCCD can be opened up more which in turn allows you to rotate the car more through corners, which goes someway to neutralising some of the understeer that our chassis' implies.
On the road, mine never leaves auto... I think I locked it once getting out of the drive in the snow.
On track, when understeering the DCCD can be opened up more which in turn allows you to rotate the car more through corners, which goes someway to neutralising some of the understeer that our chassis' implies.
I've been battling understeer all year, but battling in a "fun" way - learning my way around my local track, experimenting with ARB settings, tyre pressures and most critically the DCCD.
On the road, mine never leaves auto... I think I locked it once getting out of the drive in the snow.
On track, when understeering the DCCD can be opened up more which in turn allows you to rotate the car more through corners, which goes someway to neutralising some of the understeer that our chassis' implies.
On the road, mine never leaves auto... I think I locked it once getting out of the drive in the snow.
On track, when understeering the DCCD can be opened up more which in turn allows you to rotate the car more through corners, which goes someway to neutralising some of the understeer that our chassis' implies.
Spot on.....Been playing with suspension setups for a while myself too. Recently ive been reading Damian Hartys "multibody systems approach to vehicle dynamics" and it changed my point of view regards few things . Ive changed front Toe settings from 1 degree of Toe In to 1 degree Toe Out , front hesitation on turn in almost disappeared. There loads things we can try to adjust for our personal preferences before you modd the car to death.
The M3 is more nimble on the track, but loses out to the M5 in every single other respect as a car. Still got mine, and had the E60 for a while too but really didnt like it one bit.
The E39 Chassis was massively over engineered and I regard it as the last properly built BMW ever made.
Personally i would advise a set of EBC Yellow stuff as the materiel suits the weight of the car and ive tried a lot of stuff on it over the years...Change the fluid out for something like RBF 600 and change all the bushes to poly, especially the front arms.
Also, its worthwhile modifying the front grille to add the airducts fitted to the 540. No idea why they werent fitted to the M5 but they helped with fade on the long braking sections at the Nurburgring. A quick Google should find you teh part numbers of the missing ducts.
The E39 Chassis was massively over engineered and I regard it as the last properly built BMW ever made.
Personally i would advise a set of EBC Yellow stuff as the materiel suits the weight of the car and ive tried a lot of stuff on it over the years...Change the fluid out for something like RBF 600 and change all the bushes to poly, especially the front arms.
Also, its worthwhile modifying the front grille to add the airducts fitted to the 540. No idea why they werent fitted to the M5 but they helped with fade on the long braking sections at the Nurburgring. A quick Google should find you teh part numbers of the missing ducts.
OP try both and get what you feel is right , just stack your shed full of tyres and parts if you going to do the amount of track days you mentioned in M5 . The weight will munch it like chocolate. 😊
18 December 2014, 12:57 PM
#29
Administrator
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Blackpool, Uk. Destination: Rev Limiter.
Posts: 4,464
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Whats better about it? I thought it was uncomfortable, 2 doors was a pain as I have kids, the SMG shift was absolutely disgraceful, interior was lower quality and it was gutless low down. That said, the manual versions solve the SMG problem.
The list is long...
DS2000
DS2500
Padid RS14
Pagid RS19
Hawk HT10
I sell them all.
Some were useless with two tons at 170mph, some were awesome but destroyed the discs in 6 laps, some balanced out just nicely.
I favour the latest compound of Yellow Stuff... they just work.
Note that while the "Brand" yellow stuff is ten years old, the fruiction material isnt... it was revised and hugely improved. It used to be awful.
They arent that bad really, I get good life from mine.
They are certainly heavier though yet while they dio initially feel it, once you get the measure of teh car you find yourself repeating what pretty much every motoring journalist said when they first drove it.. "How teh hell can a car so big and heavy be so nimble?!"
To put the weight into context, the M5 with just driver weighs approx the same as the M3 with 4 adults in.
Stu are you still using yellow stuff these days? What other pads have you tried?
They're 10 year old pad now, there are so many other superior pad available it really surprised me when you said that.
They're 10 year old pad now, there are so many other superior pad available it really surprised me when you said that.
DS2000
DS2500
Padid RS14
Pagid RS19
Hawk HT10
I sell them all.
Some were useless with two tons at 170mph, some were awesome but destroyed the discs in 6 laps, some balanced out just nicely.
I favour the latest compound of Yellow Stuff... they just work.
Note that while the "Brand" yellow stuff is ten years old, the fruiction material isnt... it was revised and hugely improved. It used to be awful.
The weight will munch it like chocolate.
They are certainly heavier though yet while they dio initially feel it, once you get the measure of teh car you find yourself repeating what pretty much every motoring journalist said when they first drove it.. "How teh hell can a car so big and heavy be so nimble?!"
To put the weight into context, the M5 with just driver weighs approx the same as the M3 with 4 adults in.
Last edited by Evolution Stu; 18 December 2014 at 12:59 PM.
18 December 2014, 01:04 PM
#30
Scooby Regular
Whats better about it? I thought it was uncomfortable, 2 doors was a pain as I have kids, the SMG shift was absolutely disgraceful, interior was lower quality and it was gutless low down. That said, the manual versions solve the SMG problem.
The list is long...
DS2000
DS2500
Padid RS14
Pagid RS19
Hawk HT10
I sell them all.
Some were useless with two tons at 170mph, some were awesome but destroyed the discs in 6 laps, some balanced out just nicely.
I favour the latest compound of Yellow Stuff... they just work.
Note that while the "Brand" yellow stuff is ten years old, the fruiction material isnt... it was revised and hugely improved. It used to be awful.
They arent that bad really, I get good life from mine.
They are certainly heavier though yet while they dio initially feel it, once you get the measure of teh car you find yourself repeating what pretty much every motoring journalist said when they first drove it.. "How teh hell can a car so big and heavy be so nimble?!"
To put the weight into context, the M5 with just driver weighs approx the same as the M3 with 4 adults in.
The list is long...
DS2000
DS2500
Padid RS14
Pagid RS19
Hawk HT10
I sell them all.
Some were useless with two tons at 170mph, some were awesome but destroyed the discs in 6 laps, some balanced out just nicely.
I favour the latest compound of Yellow Stuff... they just work.
Note that while the "Brand" yellow stuff is ten years old, the fruiction material isnt... it was revised and hugely improved. It used to be awful.
They arent that bad really, I get good life from mine.
They are certainly heavier though yet while they dio initially feel it, once you get the measure of teh car you find yourself repeating what pretty much every motoring journalist said when they first drove it.. "How teh hell can a car so big and heavy be so nimble?!"
To put the weight into context, the M5 with just driver weighs approx the same as the M3 with 4 adults in.
also option to put csl software on it