Why do marketing people think they are web designers?
17 December 2013, 09:07 AM
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Why do marketing people think they are web designers?
Got a client who wants a nice simple CMS driven responsive website building. Met with them, but their marketing person (consultant) wasn't able to attend at the last minute. Anyway talked over some ideas and went away and did some designs.
Presented these with the rationale behind them to client/marketing consultant and a design was settled upon albeit with a few suggested tweaks.
All goood, happy days!
HoweverI then get an email from said marketing consultant saying she has changed her mind and we need this that and the other. I explain that her ideas won't really work in a repsonsive design, but she tells me not many people use mobile devices especially phones for viewing websites so forget about 'your silly responsive nonsense'
Now she has sent a full design through...... done in Powerpoint!
OMG!!!
I have just told them to find a new web monkey as they already have a 'deisgner' in their marketing consutant!
Presented these with the rationale behind them to client/marketing consultant and a design was settled upon albeit with a few suggested tweaks.
All goood, happy days!
HoweverI then get an email from said marketing consultant saying she has changed her mind and we need this that and the other. I explain that her ideas won't really work in a repsonsive design, but she tells me not many people use mobile devices especially phones for viewing websites so forget about 'your silly responsive nonsense'
Now she has sent a full design through...... done in Powerpoint!
OMG!!!I have just told them to find a new web monkey as they already have a 'deisgner' in their marketing consutant!
17 December 2013, 09:11 AM
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Got a client who wants a nice simple CMS driven responsive website building. Met with them, but their marketing person (consultant) wasn't able to attend at the last minute. Anyway talked over some ideas and went away and did some designs.
Presented these with the rationale behind them to client/marketing consultant and a design was settled upon albeit with a few suggested tweaks.
All goood, happy days!
HoweverI then get an email from said marketing consultant saying she has changed her mind and we need this that and the other. I explain that her ideas won't really work in a repsonsive design, but she tells me not many people use mobile devices especially phones for viewing websites so forget about 'your silly responsive nonsense'
Now she has sent a full design through...... done in Powerpoint! OMG!!!
I have just told them to find a new web monkey as they already have a 'deisgner' in their marketing consutant!
Presented these with the rationale behind them to client/marketing consultant and a design was settled upon albeit with a few suggested tweaks.
All goood, happy days!
HoweverI then get an email from said marketing consultant saying she has changed her mind and we need this that and the other. I explain that her ideas won't really work in a repsonsive design, but she tells me not many people use mobile devices especially phones for viewing websites so forget about 'your silly responsive nonsense'
Now she has sent a full design through...... done in Powerpoint!
OMG!!!I have just told them to find a new web monkey as they already have a 'deisgner' in their marketing consutant!
People just don't see the value in a properly designed website and/or identity, even in the digital age where your website is usually the first impression any prospective customer get's to see.
"Anyone can make a picture"...
No idea about visual hierarchy, vertical rhythm, colour theory, typography, flow etc...
/rant
17 December 2013, 09:35 AM
#3
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Agreed. I produced a lovely responsive site for a customer only to have it completely ruined by a single request, even worse it was Twitter related... Twitter on the fecking homepage driving customers to... the homepage!!
Just going through a re-design of that site now, fingers crossed.
Just going through a re-design of that site now, fingers crossed.
17 December 2013, 09:42 AM
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Agreed. I produced a lovely responsive site for a customer only to have it completely ruined by a single request, even worse it was Twitter related... Twitter on the fecking homepage driving customers to... the homepage!!
Just going through a re-design of that site now, fingers crossed.
Just going through a re-design of that site now, fingers crossed.
17 December 2013, 09:47 AM
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They need to understand each other's roles and work together.
Ask a web designer to write the copy and it'll be rubbish. Ask a marketing person to work on the look and functionality and there'll be tears.
We've written a lot of web copy and give opinions (when asked) on the look and feel of websites but that's it.
Our website drives loads of new business enquiries our way!
Ask a web designer to write the copy and it'll be rubbish. Ask a marketing person to work on the look and functionality and there'll be tears.
We've written a lot of web copy and give opinions (when asked) on the look and feel of websites but that's it.
Our website drives loads of new business enquiries our way!
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17 December 2013, 09:54 AM
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17 December 2013, 10:02 AM
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They need to understand each other's roles and work together.
Ask a web designer to write the copy and it'll be rubbish. Ask a marketing person to work on the look and functionality and there'll be tears.
We've written a lot of web copy and give opinions (when asked) on the look and feel of websites but that's it.
Our website drives loads of new business enquiries our way!
Ask a web designer to write the copy and it'll be rubbish. Ask a marketing person to work on the look and functionality and there'll be tears.
We've written a lot of web copy and give opinions (when asked) on the look and feel of websites but that's it.
Our website drives loads of new business enquiries our way!
17 December 2013, 10:07 AM
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Speaking of great sites: http://www.sewingandembroiderywarehouse.com/embtrb.htm
Great example of why you should close your heading tags properly
Great example of why you should close your heading tags properly
17 December 2013, 10:18 AM
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I feel your pain...I design websites and integrate into my CMS and daily have feckin idiotic comments like that chap..
Oh my god..how many Scoobynet members 'claim' to be designers.... 90%??
Oh my god..how many Scoobynet members 'claim' to be designers.... 90%??
Last edited by grey_boy; 17 December 2013 at 10:19 AM.
17 December 2013, 10:46 AM
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Speaking of great sites: http://www.sewingandembroiderywarehouse.com/embtrb.htm
Great example of why you should close your heading tags properly
Great example of why you should close your heading tags properly
LOL
17 December 2013, 11:43 AM
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F**k that, how many PEOPLE actually think they're a designer lol
Some of these people are actually making money from clients that just don't know any better.
Bad designs and even worse code.
One of my pet hates is the people that sell to a client, buy a £25 Wordpress theme and use plugins for absolutely everything!
Some plugins, fine, but I've viewed the source of some of these and they're shocking, 30+ plugins all conflicting.
Another pet hate, Bootstrap and the like, CSS classes like col2-row12 pull3 WTF?!?
That's why I created my own open source CSS framework, less bloat and semantic class names you can actually remember.
On lighter note, what's the difference between a vicar and acne?
Acne waits until you're 13 before cumming on your face
Last edited by ScoobyNoob79; 17 December 2013 at 11:46 AM.
17 December 2013, 12:04 PM
#15
Ive just gone through this nightmare.
My situation, Im an IT Director for a large innovative law firm. Ive inherited a really poor but huge website. that was in desperate need of modernising and rebranding.
Now imagine the scenario the powers that be have brought in a Marketing consultant who liaises with a graphic designer who then both present me with designs and copy for me to turn into a website.
Nightmare is an understatement.
My situation, Im an IT Director for a large innovative law firm. Ive inherited a really poor but huge website. that was in desperate need of modernising and rebranding.
Now imagine the scenario the powers that be have brought in a Marketing consultant who liaises with a graphic designer who then both present me with designs and copy for me to turn into a website.
Nightmare is an understatement.
17 December 2013, 12:13 PM
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From the other side of the coin, I hate web designers that simply charge what they think you can afford. I've been grappling with our new website all morning because the quotations we were getting back were a joke. A so called, 'mates rates' quote was £2-3k for a 6-7 page premium themed Wordpress website with no unique features and where I'm assuming he expected the content to be provided. If I had all the content ready to go I could do the same work myself in about 10 hours.
For me, it's easier and cheaper to just battle with it myself. Already got it looking pretty sharp but I'm really struggling with the marketing/message side of things. Good space above the fold is limited and every word, picture or graphic is a prisoner.
For me, it's easier and cheaper to just battle with it myself. Already got it looking pretty sharp but I'm really struggling with the marketing/message side of things. Good space above the fold is limited and every word, picture or graphic is a prisoner.
17 December 2013, 12:25 PM
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From the other side of the coin, I hate web designers that simply charge what they think you can afford. I've been grappling with our new website all morning because the quotations we were getting back were a joke. A so called, 'mates rates' quote was £2-3k for a 6-7 page premium themed Wordpress website with no unique features and where I'm assuming he expected the content to be provided. If I had all the content ready to go I could do the same work myself in about 10 hours.
For me, it's easier and cheaper to just battle with it myself. Already got it looking pretty sharp but I'm really struggling with the marketing/message side of things. Good space above the fold is limited and every word, picture or graphic is a prisoner.
For me, it's easier and cheaper to just battle with it myself. Already got it looking pretty sharp but I'm really struggling with the marketing/message side of things. Good space above the fold is limited and every word, picture or graphic is a prisoner.
If you where having a bespoke theme designed and built then the 2-3k isn't far off.
Last edited by ScoobyNoob79; 17 December 2013 at 12:29 PM.
17 December 2013, 12:39 PM
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If you're charging less you're doing yourself lol
17 December 2013, 12:41 PM
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The key is to use a CMS that doesn't place any restrictions on your design elements!
17 December 2013, 12:45 PM
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If you know what you're doing a CMS shouldn't get in your way, it should just be like creating a static html site with the added benefit of the underlying CMS.
I can take a html website and convert it for Wordpress, Expression Engine, PyroCMS, Magento etc... and it will look/function identical in each.
17 December 2013, 12:48 PM
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PHP or RoR, CSS, JS, AJAX, JSON.
Try scaling a HTML site at a later date, far easier with a CMS.
17 December 2013, 01:05 PM
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What irks me is that from start to finish (including content) it'll probably take me 20-30 hours and that's with lots and trial and error and googling to solve problems. An experienced web design company can probably do the job in 1/3rd the time and no doubt has a junior on £12p/h do the donkey work. It doesn't represent real value for money in my opinion; if I'm going to pay £100-200p/h for something I could do myself then I want it to be immeasurably better than my own efforts.
In my view, [many] web developers rely on the fact that most people don't even know where to start when it comes to building their own website and they charge accordingly. The problem is, for someone like me, I want a service where I can see results that far exceed what I'm capable of at a price that is fair - seemingly this doesn't exist (or is rare).
To give a comparison analogy: I'm quite useful when it comes to car detailing and I have a DA polisher and all the products. If I set 1-2 days aside I can get my car looking very sharp (and somewhat corrected) through hard work and sweat. However, if I want I can spend £400-600 and have an expert completely correct and detail the paint to a far higher standard. Given the choice, I'd save myself the labour and enjoy superior results by parting with £400-600. In the web development world this value relationship doesn't appear to exist - everyone just wants to knock out a generic website as cheaply and quickly as possible and then charge the earth for it!
Last edited by Saxo Boy; 17 December 2013 at 01:10 PM.
17 December 2013, 01:42 PM
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That's the problem though, I have enough experience with Wordpress and web building (note I didn't use the term design) to produce something that, at the user level, is just as good (if not better, since I have complete control). Granted, I can't do much with the underlying code so if the theme/plugins are a little sloppy that's the way they will remain.
What irks me is that from start to finish (including content) it'll probably take me 20-30 hours and that's with lots and trial and error and googling to solve problems. An experienced web design company can probably do the job in 1/3rd the time and no doubt has a junior on £12p/h do the donkey work. It doesn't represent real value for money in my opinion; if I'm going to pay £100-200p/h for something I could do myself then I want it to be immeasurably better than my own efforts.
In my view, [many] web developers rely on the fact that most people don't even know where to start when it comes to building their own website and they charge accordingly. The problem is, for someone like me, I want a service where I can see results that far exceed what I'm capable of at a price that is fair - seemingly this doesn't exist (or is rare).
To give a comparison analogy: I'm quite useful when it comes to car detailing and I have a DA polisher and all the products. If I set 1-2 days aside I can get my car looking very sharp (and somewhat corrected) through hard work and sweat. However, if I want I can spend £400-600 and have an expert completely correct and detail the paint to a far higher standard. Given the choice, I'd save myself the labour and enjoy superior results by parting with £400-600. In the web development world this value relationship doesn't appear to exist - everyone just wants to knock out a generic website as cheaply and quickly as possible and then charge the earth for it!
What irks me is that from start to finish (including content) it'll probably take me 20-30 hours and that's with lots and trial and error and googling to solve problems. An experienced web design company can probably do the job in 1/3rd the time and no doubt has a junior on £12p/h do the donkey work. It doesn't represent real value for money in my opinion; if I'm going to pay £100-200p/h for something I could do myself then I want it to be immeasurably better than my own efforts.
In my view, [many] web developers rely on the fact that most people don't even know where to start when it comes to building their own website and they charge accordingly. The problem is, for someone like me, I want a service where I can see results that far exceed what I'm capable of at a price that is fair - seemingly this doesn't exist (or is rare).
To give a comparison analogy: I'm quite useful when it comes to car detailing and I have a DA polisher and all the products. If I set 1-2 days aside I can get my car looking very sharp (and somewhat corrected) through hard work and sweat. However, if I want I can spend £400-600 and have an expert completely correct and detail the paint to a far higher standard. Given the choice, I'd save myself the labour and enjoy superior results by parting with £400-600. In the web development world this value relationship doesn't appear to exist - everyone just wants to knock out a generic website as cheaply and quickly as possible and then charge the earth for it!
Well that's completely the opposite of me then lol
You'd know you'd paid for a proper job
Ohh, basic SEO is standard
17 December 2013, 01:42 PM
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17 December 2013, 01:55 PM
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