HS2
03 February 2013, 12:08 PM
#1
HS2
Anyone wondering what the point is, can anyone explain why we need this, it seems like total overkill to save an hour between Manchester and London, it doesnt seem very weel planned, they have tunnel under East Midlands Airport, apparently EMA didnt know about this until the other day, they have to tunnel through Wythenshawe, under peoples houses, so every few minutes will their houses shake as a train thunders by underneath their feet ?
Loads of people have had compulsary purchase orders or will be haivng the track go through or past their houses, with all the attendant disruption, noise and impact, for years.
Can we afford this as a country, where is the benefit as I cant see it, if I want to go to London, I can get there in 2 hrs six minutes, an extra hour on the journey doesnt seem like a major imposition.
Loads of people have had compulsary purchase orders or will be haivng the track go through or past their houses, with all the attendant disruption, noise and impact, for years.
Can we afford this as a country, where is the benefit as I cant see it, if I want to go to London, I can get there in 2 hrs six minutes, an extra hour on the journey doesnt seem like a major imposition.
03 February 2013, 12:24 PM
#2
That's one way of looking at it.
The other is businessmen who travel down to London regularly. The trains in France, everyone said the same, now they are usually full, very reliable, quick and easy city centre to city centre. And they keep traffic off the roads, which can't be bad.
plus the French system now subsidises the ordinary trains and people clamour to have a TGV line go through their town.
But to be brutally honest, we could learn from the French.
Had OUR government done what the French did thirty to forty years ago, and told business/industry that they didn't want everything in, or outside Paris, we would now be in a better position, and some of the wealth the SE sees might now be shared out...just as it is in Paris.
Big business there and industry especially, were given grants to relocate themselves, everything but head office, away from Paris.
Result? Paris is not as crowded as London, and there is more work in the provinces, they don't have groaning infrastructure, and water shortages.
THAT might have made HS2 redundant.....certainly less necessary
The other is businessmen who travel down to London regularly. The trains in France, everyone said the same, now they are usually full, very reliable, quick and easy city centre to city centre. And they keep traffic off the roads, which can't be bad.
plus the French system now subsidises the ordinary trains and people clamour to have a TGV line go through their town.
But to be brutally honest, we could learn from the French.
Had OUR government done what the French did thirty to forty years ago, and told business/industry that they didn't want everything in, or outside Paris, we would now be in a better position, and some of the wealth the SE sees might now be shared out...just as it is in Paris.
Big business there and industry especially, were given grants to relocate themselves, everything but head office, away from Paris.
Result? Paris is not as crowded as London, and there is more work in the provinces, they don't have groaning infrastructure, and water shortages.
THAT might have made HS2 redundant.....certainly less necessary
03 February 2013, 12:57 PM
#3
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I am not going to argue the reasons for and against the line, it's going ahead no matter what, but the whole planning and proposed method of building is a shambles.
As far as I understand it will start being built from one end only.
If construction were to start simultaneously at several locations it would speed up the construction process.
Surely that could be more economical, the longer that a project takes to build, the more the cost will rise.
Merseyside has been let down by HS2, it's not getting a direct route, instead passengers will need to change at Crewe to join the line. What's the point in that if you are a businessman in a hurry? It will only work if you can walk from one train straight on to another, chances of that are slim.
As far as I understand it will start being built from one end only.
If construction were to start simultaneously at several locations it would speed up the construction process.
Surely that could be more economical, the longer that a project takes to build, the more the cost will rise.
Merseyside has been let down by HS2, it's not getting a direct route, instead passengers will need to change at Crewe to join the line. What's the point in that if you are a businessman in a hurry? It will only work if you can walk from one train straight on to another, chances of that are slim.
03 February 2013, 02:08 PM
#6
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I feel that all the disturbance and upset that it will cause,as well as the enormous cost makes it unnecessary just to save a minimal amount of time.
I think its a "look at me" attempt by the politicians.
Les
I think its a "look at me" attempt by the politicians.
Les
03 February 2013, 02:14 PM
#7
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I hear that the proposed route isn't the best,and are better options that are being ignored.
To be honest a country the size of the UK,and the limited towns/cities this HS2 will stop at,seems a bit of a waste and the money could go into maybe upgrading services so they run more efficiently,i'm not against doing something to build or upgrade transport in this country though.
To be honest a country the size of the UK,and the limited towns/cities this HS2 will stop at,seems a bit of a waste and the money could go into maybe upgrading services so they run more efficiently,i'm not against doing something to build or upgrade transport in this country though.
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03 February 2013, 02:37 PM
#9
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Brunel would have done it in a few months. Several thousand labourers and no worries about planning delays.
The damage to the countryside and wildlife will be enormous and can NEVER be restored. Put some more tracks down on existing routes and leave our beautiful countryside alone.
dl
The damage to the countryside and wildlife will be enormous and can NEVER be restored. Put some more tracks down on existing routes and leave our beautiful countryside alone.
dl
03 February 2013, 02:37 PM
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There was one politician in Leicestershire who isn't happy as it will go through his constituency. It will only knock half an hour off the journey to London.
Unfortunately, it will take them half an hour to drive to the nearest station to catch the train anyway.
Unfortunately, it will take them half an hour to drive to the nearest station to catch the train anyway.
03 February 2013, 03:55 PM
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If anyone wants to drive to or from Nottingham to the station at Toton (that's Toe-ton, not Tot-on), then they're ****ed as the roads are a shambles and extremely congested.
There will have to be yet another tram extension added, to add to the current £multi-million project thats currently being built.
Lets face it - this is planned for 20 years time - A N Other residing government in the future could still can it.
I still believe the canal system we have in the UK could be utilised better, with a bit of money thrown at it.
There will have to be yet another tram extension added, to add to the current £multi-million project thats currently being built.
Lets face it - this is planned for 20 years time - A N Other residing government in the future could still can it.
I still believe the canal system we have in the UK could be utilised better, with a bit of money thrown at it.
Last edited by zip106; 03 February 2013 at 03:56 PM.
03 February 2013, 04:30 PM
#12
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My Sister is losing her house thanks to HS2, she has lived in that house for 26 years, raised her Son there and has been happily married for 25 years.
Her and her husband went to a meeting last Friday and were told in no uncertain circumstances that their house is going, and the whole side of the street she lives on. This must be 35-40 properties. They have also been told that they will get market value plus 10%, talking to people who have been subject to compulsory purchase orders before 'market value' means bugger all.
They have also been told that this order could be as soon as the beginning of NEXT year, they have also already started work on Toton sidings.
HS2 is being forced through parliament before the next election, I wonder why.
To say they are devastated is an understatement, all this so that fat rich businessmen can travel to and from London at high(er) speeds.
Her and her husband went to a meeting last Friday and were told in no uncertain circumstances that their house is going, and the whole side of the street she lives on. This must be 35-40 properties. They have also been told that they will get market value plus 10%, talking to people who have been subject to compulsory purchase orders before 'market value' means bugger all.
They have also been told that this order could be as soon as the beginning of NEXT year, they have also already started work on Toton sidings.
HS2 is being forced through parliament before the next election, I wonder why.
To say they are devastated is an understatement, all this so that fat rich businessmen can travel to and from London at high(er) speeds.
03 February 2013, 04:41 PM
#13
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Why it takes 20 years...and why the Chinese can do it quicker.
...explained here.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-21231044
...explained here.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-21231044
03 February 2013, 05:05 PM
#14
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My Sister is losing her house thanks to HS2, she has lived in that house for 26 years, raised her Son there and has been happily married for 25 years.
Her and her husband went to a meeting last Friday and were told in no uncertain circumstances that their house is going, and the whole side of the street she lives on. This must be 35-40 properties. They have also been told that they will get market value plus 10%, talking to people who have been subject to compulsory purchase orders before 'market value' means bugger all.
They have also been told that this order could be as soon as the beginning of NEXT year, they have also already started work on Toton sidings.
HS2 is being forced through parliament before the next election, I wonder why.
To say they are devastated is an understatement, all this so that fat rich businessmen can travel to and from London at high(er) speeds.
Her and her husband went to a meeting last Friday and were told in no uncertain circumstances that their house is going, and the whole side of the street she lives on. This must be 35-40 properties. They have also been told that they will get market value plus 10%, talking to people who have been subject to compulsory purchase orders before 'market value' means bugger all.
They have also been told that this order could be as soon as the beginning of NEXT year, they have also already started work on Toton sidings.
HS2 is being forced through parliament before the next election, I wonder why.
To say they are devastated is an understatement, all this so that fat rich businessmen can travel to and from London at high(er) speeds.
Who decides what the market value for your house is anyway - an 'independent' valuer provide by the government?
There's only one way that's going to go....
03 February 2013, 05:09 PM
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Listening to the various debates about the alleged benefits there does seem to be some real doubt about the economic side. For a start no one believes that it will "only" cost £32m and there are real questions about the effects on the actual positive aspects. For example it could just bring more business down to London and the SE, the reverse of what is hoped for.
Forget it and spend the money on developing industry and research.
dl
Forget it and spend the money on developing industry and research.
dl
03 February 2013, 05:40 PM
#17
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Looks like could be more claims for hardship...
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rc...41867550,d.d2k
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rc...41867550,d.d2k
03 February 2013, 06:40 PM
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...in-detail.html
https://www.gov.uk/hs2-phase-two-ini...d-profile-maps
https://www.gov.uk/hs2-phase-two-ini...d-profile-maps
Last edited by zip106; 03 February 2013 at 06:42 PM.
03 February 2013, 06:52 PM
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Market value + 10% ....
For me, it would be a price I think is reasonable to cover the hassle and the cost of the move (like stamp duty at the next house) etc etc. And 10% does not come close.
The real crafty guys will be the larger land owners. I know someone who was CPO'd and the money that changed hands in the end was unreal. The agent he used for the deal got his % of course, but they know all the tricks.
For me, it would be a price I think is reasonable to cover the hassle and the cost of the move (like stamp duty at the next house) etc etc. And 10% does not come close.
The real crafty guys will be the larger land owners. I know someone who was CPO'd and the money that changed hands in the end was unreal. The agent he used for the deal got his % of course, but they know all the tricks.
03 February 2013, 07:42 PM
#21
Funny how, as a country we cant return an illegal immigrant who has committed a crime due to him having a Cat and Human RIghts but your home can be ripped from under you or devalued beyonf recognition and you have little right of reply.
03 February 2013, 10:54 PM
#23
The damage to the environment will be significant and the the cost so massively huge, I just can't see it makes sense on any level. £33 billion plus to create a possible 100,000 jobs? Most normal people are already trying to cut down on unnecessary travel due to the cost. http://www.independent.co.uk/environ...e-8478609.html
03 February 2013, 10:58 PM
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Listening to the various debates about the alleged benefits there does seem to be some real doubt about the economic side. For a start no one believes that it will "only" cost £32m and there are real questions about the effects on the actual positive aspects. For example it could just bring more business down to London and the SE, the reverse of what is hoped for.
Forget it and spend the money on developing industry and research.
dl
Forget it and spend the money on developing industry and research.
dl
Imagine the difference in pay between doing the same job in London and Lincolnshire, if you are travellling from near the Toton terminal. The difference in travel time will be negligible compared with the difference in wages.
03 February 2013, 11:14 PM
#25
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The M1 will have to have several miles re-aligned to make way for the railway.
03 February 2013, 11:35 PM
#27
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It will probably never even be a proper high speed railway anyway, the same thing will happen as happened to the ECML in the '90s, and the WCML twice, in the '60s & '00s:
1/ The construction budget will spiral out of control,
2/ The shortfall will be partly recovered by cutting right back on the signalling systems and,
3/ As a result, the trains will only ever run at about 80% of their design speed
1/ The construction budget will spiral out of control,
2/ The shortfall will be partly recovered by cutting right back on the signalling systems and,
3/ As a result, the trains will only ever run at about 80% of their design speed
03 February 2013, 11:36 PM
#28
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