J4CKO

iTrader: (1)

Not sure about this, would the companies claw it back from us if they had to pay full tax, is this the full picture or is it just cynical corporations appeasing shareholders and keeping their boards on mega salaries ?

Is there a list somewhere as I would like a simple guide to companies that dutifully pay their dues so I can choose where I spend my money, I avoid Starbucks anyway as three quid for a mug of mediocre coffee is not a choice I often make but otherwise I would like to see consumers able to make these companies squirm, as a paye slave I can't avoid tax so I don't want them to be able to.

Suspect they are all at it, would like to know if anyone isn't though.

RobsyUK

iTrader: (2)

I suspect it's all greed and once they start paying it won't effect the prices we pay, although it would give them a reason to put the prices up for MORE profit.

Starbucks probably 'forgot' to make the first payment then said let's see how long we can get away with it and then blame the temp for an admin error.

J4CKO

iTrader: (1)

http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/

RobJenks

Not tax avoidance - Tax evasion .
This practice is rife throughout the western world .
Big companies evade tax and are protected by polititians .
The rank and file are then left with the inflexible PAYE system .
Its all bollocks .

Carlh

good website jacko. will bookmark it

warrenm2

Except the guy who runs it makes horrendous howlers about tax and the law as well as holds flawed basic assumptions about behaviours. See timworstall.com for details under the tag Ragging on ritchie

warrenm2

So you have a situation where companies maximise the returns LEGALLY and you want to boycott them? Fine, but if you have a problem, address it to the stupid politician who made the rules not the company directors who follow them

J4CKO

iTrader: (1)

I totally agree that the politicians make the rules but am guessing it is not stupidity one hundred percent, I suspect that there will be a certain amount of pressure brought to bear by those that run the companies and also a bit of good, old fashioned self interest as I suspect a lot of these politicians are on various boards, get back handers and are shareholders, they have proven to be on the take with the expenses scandal so that is a big part of it.

The legality is dubious, there are more accountants than tax law makers, the law moves slower than a sharp accounts, a lot slower. these companies have legions of highly paid tax experts and lawyers who investigate, test and implement the tax avoidance schemes, they check to the nth degree whether the revenue can get them on any count and then go for it.

Public opinion is changing, the cupboard is bare, the government are saddled with supporting an underclass in the manner to which is has become accustomed, the NHS, rampant immigration, wars on behalf of oil companies and they are letting these big companies get away with paying any meaningful tax on their earnings. Every "light entertainer" and excecutive has an offshore company and pays sod all tax so the government have one target which is basically us PAYE Monkeys, an easy target with no legal representation or tax lawyer, they know everything about us and keep coming back for more, Child benefit going, more and more stacked on fuel and bills, financial pressure keeps ramping because they cant tackle the real problem.

I will boycott companies that do this as if the governement cant do it then perhaps the consumer can, it just isnt fair, I will be that your average Cafe pays more tax than Starbucks, this is why small businesses go under, they cant compete.

Not sure many people know or care but I think they should, I am going to read up on it and try and use "financially ethical" companies, lets make the link between these companies paying their tax and granny getting her operation in time, they are turning the streetlamps off round us FFS, that is wrong, there is no shortage of money, its just beign squirelled away.

Tidgy

so your saying if you could get away with paying alot less tax then you wouldn't? tbh i think anyone who says that is a liar.

You could argue the morality of it, but as long as its not illegal then its the system at fault.

personally i don't think its right, but you cant blame them.

ReallyReallyGoodMeat

MPs made the same argument during the expenses scandal. Legal or not it's still a scandal and the only thing companies listen to is declining profits, I'm with J4cko on this.

J4CKO

iTrader: (1)

I dont mind paying tax, I contacted for a while and that allowed a degree of flexibility in that I could claim for certain legitimate expenses but I still have to pay 20 odd p in the pound corp tax, I dutifully sent cheques for over ten grand plus the PAYE tax on the salary I paid myself.

I feel I paid a decent contribution to this country and its operation, I was well within the rules, there was no creative accounting or offshore malarkey, so yes I am not averse to the rules being used but these companies avoid paying anything, if we all payed a reasonable amount then the burden would not keep being put on the PAYE workforce.

I wouldnt try to contrive it so I didnt pay anything as I couldnt sleep at night waiting for the tax man to come and by not paying anything I could not enjoy a good rant about it on here.

The government need more money to provide the services we need, everyone needs to pay their fair share, its pretty simple, it needs shaking up.

j4ckos mate

its the big companies that should pay the tax imo.



supermarkets shouldn't be making billions from selling bbq bricks and a loaf,

on a personal scale, the mp's are epxerts at what to claim for and what to hide,
so i dont see why joe public shouldnt have the odd fiddle here and there.

J4CKO

iTrader: (1)

I have nothing against your average punter making a few quid, all part of the game and we will never stop it, not whilst cash is still a payment method. After all, and I think this is just plain wrong, every pound I now earn over 50k will effectively provide me with about thirty pence after Osbornes Child Benefit hatchet job, ok put that aside I would still only see 50p of it after tax and NI which I think is still too much, perhaps if everyone paid their tax we could get away with us only having to pay 20/30 percent as the top rate, it has become a glass ceiling now and not worth working towards that pay rise as it will make **** all difference.

Still as long as Phillip Green can pay his Missus a Billion quid for doing **** all, then thats all good.

urban

iTrader: (1)

Aren't they just

Nor do I - within reason of course.

Leslie

Force them to pay their legal dues,or kick them out.

Les

warrenm2

The point is Les, they ARE paying what the law says is legal. As before if you think tax law is too complicated, speak to the politicians. This witch hunt of efficient business must stop

Spoon

J4CKO's just pìssed, and rightly so, that the easy target always gets it in the neck, the same with traceable motorists. Even though it has never affected myself I can sympathise greatly.

ReallyReallyGoodMeat

If you were the CEO of Nero or Costa I don't think you'd be saying that.

JackClark

What about Churches?

warrenm2

Managing your tax affairs more efficiently (BUT LEGALLY) than the next guy is simply another aspect of competition. You agree I'm sure that competition is a good thing for the customer...?

J4CKO

iTrader: (1)

No, the complete and total **** raping of the working family man needs to stop, do not dress up tax avoidance as efficiency, it is massive corporations, making vast amounts and not paying their dues.

I dont get why you are so supportive of organisations that use a British workforce, British infrastructure and take money from British consumers yet set up complicating tax avoidance schemes to spirit money away, ok they provide jobs, so what ? so do businesses that pay appropriate tax.

I appreciate that whilst it is an option in law they will not stop of their own free will and that is their choice, whilst the loopholes exist, but I also, in a free market economy have a choice and I can exercise it in any way I see fit, I like to see my money (which has been taxed) go to organisations that show some rsponsibility to the nation in which they do business.

Starbucks is the poster boy for tax avoidance now, they charge pretty high prices for products, that are in effect optional, never been a big fan but not inclined to bother now and the more I learn the better informed choices I can make. I cant beleive Starbucks is keeping prices artifically low due to their tax burden, they have paid a total of 8.6 million in corporation tax in 14 years FFS, posting losses when they made money but the jig is up by the looks of it, I hope they have to pay back taxes.

Warren, is it your missus that has the high paid job in the city by any chance ?

jonc

Does that include people and small businesses that do work for 'cash in hand'?

J4CKO

iTrader: (1)

John Lewis will get my trade this Christmas, they paid their taxes and do a fine job generally, they cocked up an order of a cooker last week and have sent us £30 in gift vouchers, so it went from a bit of a debacle to them admitting they got it wrong and by making a small gesture I will order from them again.

Am loathe to break my Amazon habit, and they have been awesome but they have not paid any corporation tax on the profit from 7 Billion worth of sales, they have paid less tax than I have !

J4CKO

iTrader: (1)

I think a lot of pople do this, I personally dont have a massive problem with someone doing the odd "foreigner" or waitresses getting tips and stuff, if the majority of their income is declared, the problem is people like builders that go for years never paying any tax whatsover, I can understand it if it helps peopel get by, keeps the wolf from the door and feeds their family but it is the wholesale avoidance of vast amounts of tax I take issue with as realistically Phillip Green with his Billion pound dividend to his wife will not be keeping any Wolves from his door, he wont be deciding whether he can afford to keep the central heating on over winter.

I think avoding and evading tax becomes a default and people base their incomes on it, one of the parents at the kids school went down for "Carosel Fraud", from a rich background, houses all over the place but still not enough, he was importing mobile phones and not paying the vat, 3 million quid house here, one in Monaco but it still was not enough, that is the kind of greed we are dealing with, I dont get it, we all like nice things and being comfortable but some dont have the ability to admit they have enough.

serega

Top notch social awareness J4cko, however, i'm pretty sure that Corporations, being the epitome of capitalism, only do what they have to do. They enter the race to win it and when the game is making money that is what you get.

I'm pretty sure that everything that is within the law, but is borderline anti-social is acceptable for those corporations/conglomerates and must even be considered an advantage. There are plenty of examples of this really, Nike sweat shops anyone ?
When your only goal is to make money and dominate the markets, this is what you will get and sometimes more, Enron anyone ?

Should anyone care ? Sure. Will this make a difference ? Doubt it. They are winning, because they provide the best product for best prices, sure, you could get your coffee, socks, office supplies somewhere cheaper, but that is your money you are paying with and is this extra money worth your convictions ?
And I'm pretty sure that in end, everything is for sale.

StevieL81

There's a company in Glasgow that ripped the Govt/British people off for £94,000,000 (Apx) of unpaid taxes!

jonc

But this hidden economy amounts to an estimated £8bn in lost tax revenue out of the £35bn in the total tax illegally evaded, not to mention the legality of this activity. So what you are saying is that it's okay for the "small guys" to actually break the law, but not for those that follows the letter of the law to avoid tax. Where do you draw the line? Quite a few well known and popular sports personalities, Bradley Wiggins, Lewis Hamilton, Jenson Button, David Coultard, Nigel Mansell and many premier league footballers, why just stop at Philip Green?

It's not the people, it's not the companies either, it's our law that needs changing. Problem is, if you close all the 'loop holes' it will make our country less attractive for these corporations and the government has to make some concessions in order not to drive away foreign business and entrepreneurs. I know it's not great state of affairs, but in these tough times, it calls for tough measures and if that means reducing tax overheads as much as possible in order to keep the business profitable and therefore keep people employed, then I don't think any government are prepared to do anything about it.

J4CKO

iTrader: (1)

I am only talking about people on the breadline really and I suppose it is not ok but I can understand it more than the rest of it that is going on, country is on its ****, something needs to change.

The law needs to change and consumers need to be aware and make choices based on this as another factor in their purchasing decisions.

The corporations do what they do because they can, if they make profit they need to pay into the economy that allowed them to make that profit, then the consumers can be taxed less and they may actually spend more.

I pay a lot of tax, why should I pay more as a percentage than a multi billion pound business ?

ScoobyWon't

Set yourself up a service company, based in Luxembourg or Switzerland, have your employers pay that. If you can't beat them, join them.

davyboy

So what happens if we all stop buying from these companies, and they close operations in the UK? All tax paying PAYE staff no longer pay tax but claim benefits instead.

Just saying........

Were doomed.