J4CKO

iTrader: (1)

Looks like this shambolic and unfair attempt to save a few quid is going through, expecting a letter next week as the goverment now object to me getting a little tax back to help with raising three kids in a stable home environment.

We will lose a fair proportion of it, mainly because I am PAYE, my mate wont as he declares a small income on his business and can use every tax rule to his advantage, so he gets it for four kids along with a raft of Tax credits. People will be earning nearly 100k between them and still keep it, its bollocks, ill thought out, why cant they use the info they already have, all those green forms every year that Jenny Eclair tells us to have in on time, they want to know every detail, but now they need to know it all again !

So, if we now get dragged into having to do a tax return, does that mean us PAYE monkeys can use any allowances to reduce the impact ?

Midlife......

iTrader: (2)

You only need to fill in a tax form if you claim it...... and it will be taken out of your tax code.

For the first time you will have to declare your other half's earnings !

For me it's easier to simply not claim.

Shaun

Chip

I agree that CB should not be paid to higher earners but unfortunately there are far too many anomalies for it to be fair to all.

Chip

chocolate_o_brian

iTrader: (22)

I'm nowhere near the cut off point so it makes bugger all difference to me.


I don't live in Scottishland though, so only 50% ba$tard.

David Lock

I heard that to simplify things the gov't are extending the badger cull to take out all 3rd and 4th kids

hodgy0_2

like most things David the badger cull is not a black and white issue

Mattiepkr1984

It dosnt bother me because I earn to much to get lol

David Lock

Yeah the poor liitle buggers being the only PC correct animal

Except they are more black than white

d

jods

It makes sense to me. Slaggy Chavscum popping out future crims need to be curtailed.

Clarebabes

You've missed the point. This is not the cap on how many children you get benefit for, this is standard child benefit which is a universal benefit. This bit of the changes will not affect the dole sitters, and will do nothing to stop them from procreating due to expense.

No, this will stop the middle classes from having children due to expense. You know, the people in the middle who put a lot of tax into the system and who instil their children with a work ethic. The ones who produce the future generation who will look after us when we're older.

I don't want to look 50 years into the future to see the state of this country. I feel it would be too hard to look at

_Meridian_

iTrader: (1)

Ignoring the obvious point of where the hell do you think all the future cheap labour that capitalism relies on is going to come from, what on earth makes you think this will make the slightest difference to how many children people have? The only people who will cut down are the lower middle classes (the rest of the middle class already average about 1.4 children per family). And when the poor families continue to have the children anyway, then what?

JonMc

iTrader: (51)

I'm in the same boat as you. Had I not tried so hard and not been promoted to a point were the wife had to cut her hours we would have been better off. I break the threshold by about £2k but the wife now works for pocket money to be able to be there for the kids - we could have had a net household income increase of £15k and kept the child benefit; I can't go back now as my promotion was fixed 5-years ago and I'd have to leave my job and hope to get another.

The system is flawed and should be based upon a cumulative income in a household but that would cost money to implement and make fair and this is all about ripping off the taxpayer again.

I wonder how much it is actually going to cost to run and administer this system compared to how much the government will save in child benefit payouts

Clarebabes

What with this and the new road pricing scheme the government want to introduce, we're screwed. Might be better off not working and claiming benefits full stop!

hodgy0_2

It is the inevitable squeeze on the middle

Totally consistent with the current (and post 80's) economic narrative

I am afraid it is going to get much worse

davyboy

So I have to pay an additional £73 tax per child per month.

So every month I will be £146 down.

Brilliant!

Miniman

iTrader: (2)

I don't think it would cost any more than the current changes to ask one extra question or clarify one question.

I assume there will be some question that says "Do you earn more than 45k pa?" Then change this to "Does your household income exceed 80k pa?"*

Also I saw a report that said those on PAYE that have to move to self assessment due to this change will cause a lot more paperwork for HMRC and that in itself will cost money.

I've got no issue will not allowing benefits to higher earners, but when the implementation is unfair and open to abuse it's wrong (and don't get me started on whether changes to the OAP winter heating allowance for people sat on healthy retirement funds is fair).


*Sorry I forget the exact figures.

davyboy

....and I have to do stupid self assessment!

Clarebabes

Is having children worth the hassle of a self assessment? Hmmm....

JonMc

iTrader: (51)

It won't be a move to self assessment per se, but rather a declaration of anticipated earnings so that they can change your tax code. If they go down the route of full self-assessment I'll be adding accountant fees to my outgoings!!!!!

LEO-RS

For those earning just over the threshold in the £50-£60k band, divert off more into your pension fund to take you down to £49,999 declared earnings.

2 kids entitle you to £1752 pa in CB. At 42% tax that equates to a £3000 salary.

Clarebabes

Is this possible really? What income are they basing it on? E.g. will car allowance and bonus payments for company performance be taken into account, or just basic salary?

JonMc

iTrader: (51)

This is not possible if you work in the public sector, you can only make additional contributions if you earn specialist pay, and then only as a pro rata percentage of that pay.

SJ_Skyline

Based on taxable Pay Clare. Salary sacrifice pensions are taken off before tax so at 60k, sacrifcing 10k gives you taxable pay of 50k. Car allowance and performance bonus are taxable so would count towards the 50k threshold.

J4CKO

iTrader: (1)

Still not sure, does my company pension scheme, that obviously comes from my gross salary count towards my salary for this ?

I cant access that money until I am 65, I don't get taxed on it so surely it shouldn't be included in the calculations.

I could sort of get my head round losing the money if it was done in a fair manner, sick of being hit for everything, every time we make a bit of headway there seems to be something that is aimed squarely at those making an effort, I dont want to support people who have just arrived on the boat and provide council houses and heating, I don't want to pay ******* money so they can spend it on booze like I saw on telly the other week.

People have had kids sure in the knowledge they get a bit of their tax back to help with the additional cost, then the rug gets whipped out, I know people find it difficult to feel sympathy for those daring to earn 50k or more but 50k to support 5 people, pay for a house, transport, clothing, food, heat, light etc etc is not the easy ride peopl anticipate, especially when if on 20k all the help kicks in, people have council houses and pay a lot less than those in a private house, people make decisions based on what they know, on 55k, losing £188 a month is like a pay cut of 4 grand on your 55k salary.

Clarebabes

Yes, I know people will say "boo hoo", but my daughter is not Dave's child, but he is going to get stung for it! Her dad will still get it for his 3 other kids, just not a fair system at all. I only work part-time and earn a pittance really, so this is going to have a big impact on us.

Makes you wonder why we try to do well in this country. If you've been born into money you'll be OK as some flash accountant will ensure you pay less tax through various loopholes, and the poor just put their hands out and get everything given to them. Guess who's paying for it all? Yes, I am bloody livid about it!

LEO-RS

Yes, without a doubt.

If you are paid £55k per annum and contribute 10% into your pension scheme, your taxable pay is £49.5k which would bring you down to full entitlement of child benefit.

That goes for public and private sectors.

Most private sector pension schemes nowadays use salary sacrifice so instead of getting paid £55k and putting £5.5k into your pension. You are paid £49.5k and the company pay that £5.5k in on your behalf. This saves the NI element too.

Anyone earning just above the thresholds should be thinking about deductible sources to bring them in under the threshold. Childcare vouchers is another salary sacrifice scheme that can 'hide' your annual wage by £3k or so.

Barxy

Whats all this help that supposedly kicks in at 20K ???
55K sounds like a bloody good salary to me and would make my life a lot easier i tell you !

Clarebabes

Do you have 3 kids, a wife and a house? Jacko is not saying it's not a good salary, just that its not the easy ride others may think it is if you have lots of outgoings. I'm afraid kids = lots of outgoings! Especially if your wife/partner has given up her salary to look after said children.

As has been pointed out many times on this thread, it is the unfairness of it which grates. A couple both earning £49K a year would keep the maximum amount of CB, but if one of the couple steps over the £50K income mark, then it is slowly chipped away. Couple A earn nearly £100K between them and still get it, couple B only have an income of £50K and lose some of it. How fair is that?

JohnSmith

I would love a 55k salary too !

Barxy

Just the one kid, and planning to buy our first house early next year.

Fully understand how its not fair, and i congratulate people who do well for themselves and earn a good wage, but me and the missus both work full time as well as trying to support our child and saving every penny to buy our first house, juggling everything is tough, yet our combined wage is still plently less than £55k! We get no help whatsoever other than the usual child benefit.
Sorry its not a dig at all, just saying 55K is well above average wage these days so try putting your self in the shoes of a family earning much less than that.
Oh and im still wondering what all this help is that you supposedly get at 20K ???