Markus

Flying to Canada, Mexico or the Caribbean? Perhaps you might not be, due to the good ol US of A checking your details, more here

TL;DR
US is requiring passenger information and if they don't like the look of you, you won't be able to fly into Canada, Mexico of The Caribbean.
Last time I checked, flying direct to those places does not require you to physically enter the USA.

As usual, the US is acting like the spoilt brat in the world playground. It will cry, scream, and stamp it's feet until it gets it way. Time we gave the brat a metaphorical spanking and told it that it's behaviour is no longer going to be tolerated.

I wonder what the reaction would be if the UK decided to turn round and demand US passenger details when they fly into France, Germany, or other european destinations. I'm sure there would be an outcry that we cannot do this.

boomer

It still makes me smile thinking about when Brazil to fingerprint US citizens hit the headlines - and i think that was good old fashioned "wet ink" for the prints.

Maybe if the rest of the world started implementing such measures on "Merkins" they would actually start to realise what a bunch of bullies they have become!

mb

Dedrater

Upvote for providing TL;DR.

Wait, wrong internet...

wayne9t9

Dirka Dirka

borderlinechris

iTrader: (5)

riding along to save the motherf@@King day, yeah!!.....

SamUK

iTrader: (1)

Funniest Film Ever! http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0372588/

Carlh

we'd never stand up for ourselves. This is blighty.

We love getting rimmed by the rest of the world.

CrisPDuk

I bet you can still get on an internal flight within the US armed to the teeth though

Nimbus

Mohammad Jihad!

windyboy

last year I unknowingly let my car insurance slip by a few days and was stopped by the police, I got 6 points and a £200 fine and because this was imposed by the court I now have a ciminal record, we are going to Orlando at the end of May and I had to pay £35 to get a report about me from the Association of Chief Policemen so I can take it to the local US Embassy and pay $140 to get a visa
You now also have to pay a admin fee to get an ESTA to enter the country, these were free a few years ago

Perhaps we should of stopped Christopher Columbus from sailing around in a big boat all of them years ago LOL

windyboy

tyler120706

jesus t***y fuc**** christ !!!!

Leslie

No we don't! The politicians do though, got to curry favour among the world leaders somehow!

Les

scoobyvirgin

I think you've been done, I'm just looking into this myself as was convicted of motoring offences by a court. From what I've read, I'm not going to have to declare the offence.

hodgy0_2

you might find that they already know about the offence

so waiting at the border control line after landing in the US will be exciting

wayne9t9

Pretty sure motoring offences don`t count, unless you killed someone with your car maybe. I think because the country has so many criminals they don`t want any more. I`ve been through the whole U.S. immigration thing in order to get a green card. Absolute nightmare that lasted over a year.

Markus

This is from the ESTA site (have a look here

B) Have you ever been arrested or convicted for an offense or crime involving moral turpitude or a violation related to a controlled substance; or been arrested or convicted for two or more offenses for which the aggregate sentence to confinement was five years or more; or been a controlled substance trafficker; or are you seeking entry to engage in criminal or immoral activities?

Crimes involving moral turpitude - Such offenses generally involve conduct which is inherently base, vile, or depraved and contrary to the accepted rules of morality and the duties owed to persons or society in general. There are factors, such as the age of the offender or the date of the offense, that may affect whether an offense will be considered a crime involving moral turpitude for purposes of the Immigration and Nationality Act.
For further information refer to § 212(a)(2) of the Immigration and Nationality Act, 8 U.S.C. § 1182(a)(2), § 101(a)(43) of the Immigration and Nationality Act, 8 U.S.C. § 1101(a)(43) and corresponding regulations in the Code of Federal Regulations.

Not sure if that makes things any more clear. I do know they are very strict on drug related offences, so if you've been done for having a bit of wacky backy on you, I'd not be surprised if you'll have a hard time getting into the US.

scoobyvirgin

Marcus, the wacky backy was Air con Daves! Apparently ordered by your good self for some bbq or other

Markus

[QUOTE=wayne9t9;10562175I`ve been through the whole U.S. immigration thing in order to get a green card. Absolute nightmare that lasted over a year.[/QUOTE]

US Immigration can be an absolute horror. We had an office in St Louis and we did want to relocate staff from the UK office to the US one, the idea being that as the US was our biggest market, it made sense to staff it properly.
We were looking at about four people; the MD / CEO, and three tech staff (two devs, one tech support; i.e., me!).

Initially we applied for the MD and Lead developer, the MD was denied a visa, it was claimed that he was not necessary to the continued operation of the business. The dev did get the work permit, but our attempts to get the other people permits didn't work out. The usual claims of "you're taking jobs away from Americans! Can you not employ an American?" (No, not right away we cannot, it would take at least six months to train them, IF they have pretty good starting skills, and St Louis isn't exactly known as being the tech hotbed of the US - We were there because we had a tech partnership with another local company)


In the end, we just flew out a few times every six months. Immigration frowned on this, as they saw us as exploiting a loophole. The MD did point out we would like to have visas, and would like to pay US taxes (yes, he did say this at the immigration counter - not a wise move! A little chat in an office came up a few times!) but they just didn't want to provide the permits.

After a while we looked at Canada, and they welcomed us with open arms, more than happy to allow the transfer of staff from the UK to Canada (turn up, show paperwork, wait 45 mins and you have a work permit valid for a year, which can be renewed more or less indefinitely) It was in stark contrast to the way the US had treated us.

Markus

Fecking lying seed-bag! Absinthe and Stroh, yeah, that I'll cop to, but I don't recall requesting other substances, mainly given they are not required due to the potency of the aforementioned liquor.

scoobyvirgin

Ha ha, good old Stroh, been trying to get hold of some for a while now but no joy.

Back on topic, although a DD conviction, I found this:

I was convicted for driving over the alcohol limit 3 years ago and I have gone back and forth to the US loads of time without a problem, as when it says ‘have you committed a crime involving moral turpitude?’, I just tick no. As Drink Driving (DR10) it isn't considered that in America

The UK US embassy site will tell you that if you have ever been arrested you need a visa. But there is a debate as whether the US embassy in the UK is operating within the guidelines – the Aussie and New Zealand US Embassy tells their citizens that ‘a single drink driving offence’ is not considered a crime of moral turpitude. The UK US Embassy will always, always tell you need a visa. A key thing to remember is this: In the US certain political figures would like everyone to operate the policy that you have to use a visa to visit – but the tourism lobby won’t allow it.

But in reality, all you are required to do is to fill out the Visa Waiver Form correctly and properly. Anyone in the US legal system, will tell you that a single Drink Driving offence is not considered a crime of moral turpitude - so you can travel without worry. Also, the US Homeland Security do not have universal access to everyone’s records, otherwise people wouldn't get through – there are always urban myths about Grannies with a record for not paying their TV licence 20 years ago, being deported at the start of the trip they had spent years saving for – it is all nonsense. People only get flagged up for serious crimes, murder, sex crimes, drugs etc. The passport control officer has to officially request your details in order to get them and he has to have reasonable grounds for doing so.

But just to please all the people out there who do believe that even if you were wrongfully arrested you should have to get a visa, lets assume that Drink Driving IS a 'crime of moral turpitude'. Under the US government's own visa website, regarding using the Visa Waiver Form (see source below). It is still ok, as long as it is your only offence:

(2) Criminal and related grounds.-

(A) Conviction of certain crimes.-

(i) In general.-Except as provided in clause (ii), any alien convicted of, or who admits having committed, or who admits committing acts which constitute the essential elements of-

(I) a crime involving moral turpitude (other than a purely political offense or an attempt or conspiracy to commit such a crime)

Here is clause (ii) mentioned above:

(ii) Exception.-Clause (i)(I) shall not apply to an alien who committed only one crime if-

(II) the maximum penalty possible for the crime of which the alien was convicted (or which the alien admits having committed or of which the acts that the alien admits having committed constituted the essential elements) did not exceed imprisonment for one year and, if the alien was convicted of such crime, the alien was not sentenced to a term of imprisonment in excess of 6 months (regardless of the extent to which the sentence was ultimately executed).

Now the key thing here is that the crime did not carry a maximum sentence of over a year "did not exceed imprisonment for one year" - as, and you can see this in the 2nd link below, the maximum penalty for DD is "Driving or attempting to drive whilst above the legal limit or unfit through drink carries a maximum penalty of 6 months' imprisonment,"

So even if Drink Driving is crime of moral turpitude (which under US law it isn’t), it is still an exception to the guidelines due to the maximum sentence and you can use the VWP with peace of mind.

Phew....
Source(s):
http://www.travel.state.gov/visa/frvi/in…

mart360

Stroh 60 got bottle in the cupboard i beleieve mind you it might be a few years old now

They do a Stroh 80? i believe .....wow

I got mine from Gratz airport last time i flew out on business


Mart

CrisPDuk

The way I look at it; if they really want to make it that much aggravation for me to go, then fine, I'll just spend my tourist cash elsewhere

DonNedly

iTrader: (10)

All this talk of morality seems a bit existential for a legal document!

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

Yes tried stroh 80.

Tiny amount and I could feel it burning my innards. Thats the ony thing I remember of that night

windyboy

I spoke to a person at the US Embassy about this (at £1.23 a minute for 15 minutes) and explained everything and he told me to get the police report and he also gave me their website details.
I got the report back yesterday and they can't find any trace of me on the PNC so that was £35 wasted (maybe the PSNI computer didn't tell the PNC) but at least now I can apply for a normal ESTA

windyboy

dpb

The place is rammed full of whackos religious nutters and other backward types what do you expect

dpb

Those drones just seem another cowardly way out