alcazar

iTrader: (2)

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...st_read_module

Disgusting.

Close the cemetery, bring them all home, refuse all future aid to Libya.

justin_watson

Saw it earlier today in paper! Disgusting! Give em an inch......

tony de wonderful

This is a shocking act but why is Libya to blame per se rather than the individuals who have done it?

We have had people desecrate war graves and Jewish graves here but you wouldn't blame the UK per se?

JTaylor

It's not the whole of Libya, it's a faction of Bhenghazi's bearded men. To be fair 'The Colonel' did warn us about them.

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Libya is a complete mess much like Afghanistan and Iraq.... hmmm ... I wonder what the common denominator is here

tony de wonderful

Islam?

JTaylor

This. It's the ignorance that boils my pïss: Some stupid sceptic burns a Qu'ran, some stupid zealots seek revenge by desecrating British and Italian graves and public opinion around the Libya-Britain relationship takes a nose-dive. None of this is actually rooted in principle or reason.

tony de wonderful

Yep and we are in danger or reacting to the grave desicrations like the morons who rioted worldwide when the Danish cartoons were published and swore revenge against Denmark.

Or the idiots who blame the US for a few old Korans which has been filled with prisoners messages ending up on a rubbish incinerator.

hodgy0_2

i read this in the papers today, and my heart sank

I have posted before on the wonder of the war commision graves spread across the middle east -- tended lovingly and respectfully by local people

JTaylor

The removal of dictatorship? Perhaps Arabs and Pashtuns and Persians like being told what to do. Seriously. I'm actually open to the idea that aggressive liberalism is flawed and that the imposition of Western style democracy cannot be applied in less developed parts of the world. At least the west can say it had a go the next time someone accuses them of doing business with dictators and authoritarians. Having said that, there's the Arab spring to observe, an internal move towards a more pluralistic and open society? Or will it just end in worse kinds of governments as the internet generation have their revolutions hijacked by bearded men. Tunisia's moved towards Islamism, looks like Egypt's heading the same way (assuming the military relinquish power) and we've yet to see how Libya will progress. The west might just need to accept that Islam and democracy will rarely meet and that relationships like that which exist between it and the House of Saud are just how it's going to be.

Ant

cster

+1

Dirk Diggler 75

Some valid points made.....
It could take many years before a truely democratic constitution works.
When will the West learn that democracy must be taught to the people before you set them free...............

Leslie

Do you mean that selfish despots who want to rule at all costs in a way that they can crush any kind of opposition in the most vicious way should have their power removed, and that the people who are not that stupid after all might realise their chance to rule their own destiny?

Les

fivetide

iTrader: (1)

Daily Heil mentions but sort of glosses over this bit....

"The Foreign Office said it now believed the attack was carried out by militant islamists, known as Salafists, after Muslim shrines were also targeted."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-17244211

5t.

JTaylor

Why thank you, Dirk.

Look at Turkey for the model of progress care of Atatürk. Even there the paradox of democracy is rearing its head - the AKP are receiving 50% of the votes leading to the presidential election of an Islamist which is threatening the very secularism that paved the way for democracy in the first place. Same thing happened in Palestine - democracy allowed for the election of the deeply un-democratic Hamas; Tunisian 'democracy' has led to the election of the Islamist Nahda party; Egyptian 'democracy' looks to be heading toward having The Muslim Brotherhood at the helm (rooted in Bin Laden's preferred philosophy of Qutbism) with the 'opposition' being the Salafists, and they, of course, are the heroes of this particular thread. It's going to take centuries and more to resolve and real democracy and pluralism isn't guaranteed a victory.

Who teaches it in countries where madrasas form the hub of the education system?