Sale of goods act and internet purchase
25 January 2012, 07:16 AM
#1
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Sale of goods act and internet purchase
Can anybody advice on this?
I bought a cctv camera kit about two months ago and only came to set it up a few weeks ago.
One component (the DVR recorder) worth about £400 has failed, it was probably faulty on arrival.
The company (a well established one) I bought it from says to send it back to them but I need to pay for the postage to them. Given it's weight and the fact I need to insure it for £400 means it will cost close to £40 to send.
I've tried to convince them that something high value failing so soon means they should cover the postage both ways but they are having none of it. They say the t and c on their website states items should be checked and returned within 14 days for them to cover the postage both ways.
Do I have any legal rights to force them to cover the cost?
Thanks
I bought a cctv camera kit about two months ago and only came to set it up a few weeks ago.
One component (the DVR recorder) worth about £400 has failed, it was probably faulty on arrival.
The company (a well established one) I bought it from says to send it back to them but I need to pay for the postage to them. Given it's weight and the fact I need to insure it for £400 means it will cost close to £40 to send.
I've tried to convince them that something high value failing so soon means they should cover the postage both ways but they are having none of it. They say the t and c on their website states items should be checked and returned within 14 days for them to cover the postage both ways.
Do I have any legal rights to force them to cover the cost?
Thanks
25 January 2012, 08:59 AM
#3
extract from the OFTs guide to businesses on distance selling:
Q. What specifically do I have to refund to the consumer if
they cancel?
3.48
The DSRs require you to refund any money paid by or on behalf of
the consumer in relation to the contract to the person who made the
payment. This means the full price of the goods, or deposit or prepayment
made, including the cost of delivery. The essence of
distance selling is that consumers buy from home and receive goods
at home. In these circumstances, almost every case of home
shopping will involve delivery of the goods ordered and so delivery
forms an essential part of the contract.
3.57
If the goods are faulty or do not comply with the contract, you will
have to pay for their return whatever the circumstances.
Q. What specifically do I have to refund to the consumer if
they cancel?
3.48
The DSRs require you to refund any money paid by or on behalf of
the consumer in relation to the contract to the person who made the
payment. This means the full price of the goods, or deposit or prepayment
made, including the cost of delivery. The essence of
distance selling is that consumers buy from home and receive goods
at home. In these circumstances, almost every case of home
shopping will involve delivery of the goods ordered and so delivery
forms an essential part of the contract.
3.57
If the goods are faulty or do not comply with the contract, you will
have to pay for their return whatever the circumstances.
Last edited by pimmo2000; 25 January 2012 at 09:05 AM.
25 January 2012, 09:11 AM
#5
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Most companies will ask you to return it yourself, general reasoning being that if the company picks it up and it gets damaged in transit it can be a pain in the *** especially since so many customers are idiots and won't repackage things properly.
I had a customer send a Humax PVR back to me once in a cornflake box, no packaging or anything else and he wondered why he couldn't have a refund on the smashed up piece of metal we received.
I had a customer send a Humax PVR back to me once in a cornflake box, no packaging or anything else and he wondered why he couldn't have a refund on the smashed up piece of metal we received.
25 January 2012, 09:31 AM
#6
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Most companies will ask you to return it yourself, general reasoning being that if the company picks it up and it gets damaged in transit it can be a pain in the *** especially since so many customers are idiots and won't repackage things properly.
I had a customer send a Humax PVR back to me once in a cornflake box, no packaging or anything else and he wondered why he couldn't have a refund on the smashed up piece of metal we received.
I had a customer send a Humax PVR back to me once in a cornflake box, no packaging or anything else and he wondered why he couldn't have a refund on the smashed up piece of metal we received.
What i dont get is why after spending all that cash Ding - youd just leave it in the corner for a month
25 January 2012, 09:58 AM
#7
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I bought a cctv camera kit about two months ago and only came to set it up a few weeks ago.
They say the t and c on their website states items should be checked and returned within 14 days for them to cover the postage both ways.
3.57
If the goods are faulty or do not comply with the contract, you will have to pay for their return whatever the circumstances.
If the goods are faulty or do not comply with the contract, you will have to pay for their return whatever the circumstances.
They are no obligation to offer a free return service but they did so anyway, for a limited time as denoted in the T's and C's you accepted when you purchased from them - a limit that has long since passed.
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25 January 2012, 10:07 AM
#8
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Thread Starter
Ok, at least I know where I stand and can move on.
It's one of the downsides of buying over the internet even from a reputable company I suppose. Most of the time we save money by e shopping but sometimes we don't.
25 January 2012, 10:12 AM
#9
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Thread Starter
Received it late Nov 2011, it comes with 8 cctv cameras and it took me some time to get them all up and installed.
And before anybody asks I don't have cctv because I live somewhere 'dodgy'
I'm just a bit security conscious after a colleague at work and his wife were tied up and threatened with an axe by robbers.
25 January 2012, 10:21 AM
#10
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I reckon if you select a decent courier through Interparcel it won't cost anything like £40 to insure. Anyway make a fuss and you will be refunded. dl
25 January 2012, 10:24 AM
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I haven't read the rules for while, but IIRC, the piece quoted in 3.57 is the sellers responsibilities, not the customer, so when it says 'you' are responsible, no matter what the circumstances, it means the seller is responsible.
The guidelines need to be read properly, they can mislead.
Geezer
The guidelines need to be read properly, they can mislead.
Geezer
25 January 2012, 10:45 AM
#12
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Thread Starter
I haven't read the rules for while, but IIRC, the piece quoted in 3.57 is the sellers responsibilities, not the customer, so when it says 'you' are responsible, no matter what the circumstances, it means the seller is responsible.
The guidelines need to be read properly, they can mislead.
Geezer
The guidelines need to be read properly, they can mislead.
Geezer
Aha! The plot thickens, can anybody give a definitive answer?
25 January 2012, 10:50 AM
#13
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Rescind the contract due to breach of terms of said contract, they then lose the right not to refund postal charges.
Remember there own T&Cs can not and do not override your consumer rights like Beef seems to think. Instruct them 14 days to remedy the situation.
Your attention is drawn to the Consumer Protection (Distance Selling) Regulations 2000, specifically to regulation 14 which states that you may not make any charge in relation to the supply of goods under a contract whereby the cancellation of the contract is due to the breach of implied terms of the contract (specifically implied terms in relation to section 14 of the Sale of Goods Act)
25 January 2012, 10:53 AM
#14
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I will double check, but i think you have 3 months + 7 days to rescind a contact.
Edit:
Some additional information which you could incorporate into the letter..
Edit:
PART 5A
ADDITIONAL RIGHTS OF BUYER IN CONSUMER CASES
48A Introductory
(1) This section applies if—
(a) the buyer deals as consumer or, in Scotland, there is a consumer contract in which the buyer is a consumer, and
(b) the goods do not conform to the contract of sale at the time of delivery.
(2) If this section applies, the buyer has the right—
(a) under and in accordance with section 48B below, to require the seller to repair or replace the goods, or
(b) under and in accordance with section 48C below—
(i) to require the seller to reduce the purchase price of the goods to the buyer by an appropriate amount, or
(ii) to rescind the contract with regard to the goods in question.
(3) For the purposes of subsection (1)(b) above goods which do not conform to the contract of sale at any time within the period of six months starting with the date on which the goods were delivered to the buyer must be taken not to have so conformed at that date.
(4) Subsection (3) above does not apply if -
(a) it is established that the goods did so conform at that date
ADDITIONAL RIGHTS OF BUYER IN CONSUMER CASES
48A Introductory
(1) This section applies if—
(a) the buyer deals as consumer or, in Scotland, there is a consumer contract in which the buyer is a consumer, and
(b) the goods do not conform to the contract of sale at the time of delivery.
(2) If this section applies, the buyer has the right—
(a) under and in accordance with section 48B below, to require the seller to repair or replace the goods, or
(b) under and in accordance with section 48C below—
(i) to require the seller to reduce the purchase price of the goods to the buyer by an appropriate amount, or
(ii) to rescind the contract with regard to the goods in question.
(3) For the purposes of subsection (1)(b) above goods which do not conform to the contract of sale at any time within the period of six months starting with the date on which the goods were delivered to the buyer must be taken not to have so conformed at that date.
(4) Subsection (3) above does not apply if -
(a) it is established that the goods did so conform at that date
Sale of Goods Act
URN No: 05/1730
Subject: Sale of Goods Act, Faulty Goods.
Relevant or Related Legislation: Sale of Goods Act 1979. Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982. Sale and Supply of Goods Act 1994. The Sale and Supply of Goods to Consumers Regulations 2002.
Key Facts:
• Wherever goods are bought they must "conform to contract". This means they must be as described, fit for purpose and of satisfactory quality (i.e. not inherently faulty at the time of sale).
• Goods are of satisfactory quality if they reach the standard that a reasonable person would regard as satisfactory, taking into account the price and any description.
• Aspects of quality include fitness for purpose, freedom from minor defects, appearance and finish, durability and safety.
• It is the seller, not the manufacturer, who is responsible if goods do not conform to contract.
• If goods do not conform to contract at the time of sale, purchasers can request their money back "within a reasonable time". (This is not defined and will depend on circumstances)
• For up to six years after purchase (five years from discovery in Scotland) purchasers can demand damages (which a court would equate to the cost of a repair or replacement).
• A purchaser who is a consumer, i.e. is not buying in the course of a business, can alternatively request a repair or replacement.
• If repair and replacement are not possible or too costly, then the consumer can seek a partial refund, if they have had some benefit from the good, or a full refund if the fault/s have meant they have enjoyed no benefit
• In general, the onus is on all purchasers to prove the goods did not conform to contract (e.g. was inherently faulty) and should have reasonably lasted until this point in time (i.e. perishable goods do not last for six years).
• If a consumer chooses to request a repair or replacement, then for the first six months after purchase it will be for the retailer to prove the goods did conform to contract (e.g. were not inherently faulty)
• After six months and until the end of the six years, it is for the consumer to prove the lack of conformity
URN No: 05/1730
Subject: Sale of Goods Act, Faulty Goods.
Relevant or Related Legislation: Sale of Goods Act 1979. Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982. Sale and Supply of Goods Act 1994. The Sale and Supply of Goods to Consumers Regulations 2002.
Key Facts:
• Wherever goods are bought they must "conform to contract". This means they must be as described, fit for purpose and of satisfactory quality (i.e. not inherently faulty at the time of sale).
• Goods are of satisfactory quality if they reach the standard that a reasonable person would regard as satisfactory, taking into account the price and any description.
• Aspects of quality include fitness for purpose, freedom from minor defects, appearance and finish, durability and safety.
• It is the seller, not the manufacturer, who is responsible if goods do not conform to contract.
• If goods do not conform to contract at the time of sale, purchasers can request their money back "within a reasonable time". (This is not defined and will depend on circumstances)
• For up to six years after purchase (five years from discovery in Scotland) purchasers can demand damages (which a court would equate to the cost of a repair or replacement).
• A purchaser who is a consumer, i.e. is not buying in the course of a business, can alternatively request a repair or replacement.
• If repair and replacement are not possible or too costly, then the consumer can seek a partial refund, if they have had some benefit from the good, or a full refund if the fault/s have meant they have enjoyed no benefit
• In general, the onus is on all purchasers to prove the goods did not conform to contract (e.g. was inherently faulty) and should have reasonably lasted until this point in time (i.e. perishable goods do not last for six years).
• If a consumer chooses to request a repair or replacement, then for the first six months after purchase it will be for the retailer to prove the goods did conform to contract (e.g. were not inherently faulty)
• After six months and until the end of the six years, it is for the consumer to prove the lack of conformity
Last edited by Dedrater; 25 January 2012 at 11:14 AM.
25 January 2012, 10:58 AM
#15
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This is from the OFT Businesses Guide to distance selling.....
So that doesn't look too good for you, I'm afraid.
Also, there seems to be mention of returning goods after 30 days.
Like I say, speak to Trading Standards, they will know you can do.
Geezer
Only if it is covered in the contract and the written information
can you require the consumer to pay for the cost of returning
the ordered goods. If the consumer then fails to return the
goods, or sends them at your expense, you can charge them
the direct cost to you of the return, even if you have already
refunded the consumer’s money. You are not allowed to
make any further charges, such as a restocking charge or an
administration charge.
can you require the consumer to pay for the cost of returning
the ordered goods. If the consumer then fails to return the
goods, or sends them at your expense, you can charge them
the direct cost to you of the return, even if you have already
refunded the consumer’s money. You are not allowed to
make any further charges, such as a restocking charge or an
administration charge.
Also, there seems to be mention of returning goods after 30 days.
Like I say, speak to Trading Standards, they will know you can do.
Geezer
25 January 2012, 10:59 AM
#16
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I would of thought that if the item is faulty you will have to send it back at your cost,they will then have to repair or replace it under warranty and then refund your out of pocket costs.
25 January 2012, 11:03 AM
#17
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No, if he treats it as a breach of contract, which it is, regulation 14 says that the supplier shall reimburse the consumer within thirty days of the notice of cancellation being given, including delivery costs. Regulation 17 goes on to say the consumer should look after the goods etc and hold on to them upon collection by the supplier.
Last edited by Dedrater; 25 January 2012 at 11:06 AM. Reason: spelin
25 January 2012, 11:25 AM
#18
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But, notice of cancellation refers to the part of the regs which covers returns for distance selling within 7 days, for whatever reason you see fit.
This is past that period, and past the 30 days which continually comes up within the regs about returns.
I suspect that he will have to pay for the return.
Golden rule here, check your goods as soon as you can!
Geezer
This is past that period, and past the 30 days which continually comes up within the regs about returns.
I suspect that he will have to pay for the return.
Golden rule here, check your goods as soon as you can!
Geezer
25 January 2012, 11:41 AM
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See here..
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2...lation/14/made
What part of the regs are you reading that comes up with 30 days on the consumer side? A Rescind of contract implies all cancellation rights.
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2...lation/14/made
What part of the regs are you reading that comes up with 30 days on the consumer side? A Rescind of contract implies all cancellation rights.
25 January 2012, 02:12 PM
#20
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Thread Starter
Thanks guys.
I rang trading standards and explained the case to them. They seem to think that I should not incur any additional charges in getting the item fixed/replaced. He quoted the Sale of Goods Act and the fact they have breached their contract with me by sending me an item that has failed within two months.
I have emailed the company to the same effect and will wait to see what they say.
To me it doesn't feel right to buy a high value item that fails within two months and then be left with the bill for postage. What if it fails again within a few weeks, I'm expected to stump up the postage costs again and again?
Thanks for all the help offered so far, it will be interesting to see what happens
I rang trading standards and explained the case to them. They seem to think that I should not incur any additional charges in getting the item fixed/replaced. He quoted the Sale of Goods Act and the fact they have breached their contract with me by sending me an item that has failed within two months.
I have emailed the company to the same effect and will wait to see what they say.
To me it doesn't feel right to buy a high value item that fails within two months and then be left with the bill for postage. What if it fails again within a few weeks, I'm expected to stump up the postage costs again and again?
Thanks for all the help offered so far, it will be interesting to see what happens
25 January 2012, 03:01 PM
#21
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its all about what is reasonable, waiting 2 months to check an item is probably too long.
if you had a fault with in 14 days of it being delivered then I am sure they would have paid the postage but 2 months is pushing it. You should be able to return it for no more than £15.00 fully insured
don't mix the DSR's with the sales of goods act they are completly different things
If you take a faulty item back to a shop in town would expect them to pay your parking/fuel/tyre wear etc etc
if you had a fault with in 14 days of it being delivered then I am sure they would have paid the postage but 2 months is pushing it. You should be able to return it for no more than £15.00 fully insured
don't mix the DSR's with the sales of goods act they are completly different things
If you take a faulty item back to a shop in town would expect them to pay your parking/fuel/tyre wear etc etc
23 February 2012, 10:19 PM
#24
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This is what it actually is
This is why we ask customers to make their own shipping arrangments for faulty products.
Last edited by Jamz3k; 23 February 2012 at 10:21 PM.
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