Teaching Unions showing what they are truly about
13 January 2012, 12:39 PM
#1
Teaching Unions showing what they are truly about
So it'll be easier to get rid of crap teachers...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-16535191
Surely anyone with a grain of common sense can see this is good news for everyone, for the children they won't have to put up with terrible teaching and damage their futures, the parents can have more faith in the schooling system, and the good teachers can finally see the back of their colleagues who are not up to scratch.
The only ones who should be upset by this are the crap teachers. But the unions are upset too, the implication being; to hell with the future of kids' education, we'd rather put childrens' futures at risk than see one of our members sacked even though they aren't good enough to do their job. This union should be ashamed as should its members, but at least it shows us all what their motivation really is, money.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-16535191
Surely anyone with a grain of common sense can see this is good news for everyone, for the children they won't have to put up with terrible teaching and damage their futures, the parents can have more faith in the schooling system, and the good teachers can finally see the back of their colleagues who are not up to scratch.
The only ones who should be upset by this are the crap teachers. But the unions are upset too, the implication being; to hell with the future of kids' education, we'd rather put childrens' futures at risk than see one of our members sacked even though they aren't good enough to do their job. This union should be ashamed as should its members, but at least it shows us all what their motivation really is, money.
13 January 2012, 12:48 PM
#3
Administrator
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Blackpool, Uk. Destination: Rev Limiter.
Posts: 4,464
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I totally agree with these new policies, saw a guy on TV this morning standing his ground against the ******* presenters too. Good start IMO.
13 January 2012, 01:26 PM
#6
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (13)
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: here, there, everywhere
Posts: 3,111
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
i agree to an extent
just hope the assessments for checking performance are clear, and not subject to personal emotion.
dont want to make it easy for anyone in charge to dismiss, people that they have a grievence with or just plain dont like.
and here here (lol) for the MP comment.
just hope the assessments for checking performance are clear, and not subject to personal emotion.
dont want to make it easy for anyone in charge to dismiss, people that they have a grievence with or just plain dont like.
and here here (lol) for the MP comment.
13 January 2012, 01:52 PM
#7
Unfortunately, I've seen bullying heads who would LOVE this, and the self same-head went out of his way to "protect" another teacher who was poor.....and didn't even LIKE kids 
This looks like a charter to destroy the career of someone in ten weeks at the whim of a head...who may, or may not be any good themselves.
What of a teacher going through a bad period for some reason?
This looks like a charter to destroy the career of someone in ten weeks at the whim of a head...who may, or may not be any good themselves.
What of a teacher going through a bad period for some reason?
Trending Topics
13 January 2012, 02:37 PM
#9
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 39,877
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
13 January 2012, 02:56 PM
#11
Scooby Regular
Heads have their favourites and those who make life a bit challenging for them.
Teachers who are not doing service to children should be sacked ...... but not ones who happen to challenge the Head.
So, it needs acreful monitoring - and NOT by the Governors who (in the most part) always agree with the Head as they have nothing else to go on.
But, I think only 3 teachers in 50 years have been sacked for being poor .... we all know that figure should be a hec of a lot higher than that!!!
Teachers who are not doing service to children should be sacked ...... but not ones who happen to challenge the Head.
So, it needs acreful monitoring - and NOT by the Governors who (in the most part) always agree with the Head as they have nothing else to go on.
But, I think only 3 teachers in 50 years have been sacked for being poor .... we all know that figure should be a hec of a lot higher than that!!!
13 January 2012, 03:46 PM
#13
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Swindon, Wiltshire Xbox Gamertag: Gutgouger
Posts: 6,956
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Unfortunately, I've seen bullying heads who would LOVE this, and the self same-head went out of his way to "protect" another teacher who was poor.....and didn't even LIKE kids
This looks like a charter to destroy the career of someone in ten weeks at the whim of a head...who may, or may not be any good themselves.
What of a teacher going through a bad period for some reason?
This looks like a charter to destroy the career of someone in ten weeks at the whim of a head...who may, or may not be any good themselves.
What of a teacher going through a bad period for some reason?
13 January 2012, 03:50 PM
#14
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 285
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It is a good move in a sense but completely agree with Alcazar. This can be open for alot of abuse and work based politics. Even though it shouldn't obviously. Other half is a teacher and the stories are that some of the teachers are as bad as the children with their bickering and bicker to someone who is 'liked' higher up then open for abuse or work place bullying (yes it happens in lots of jobs I know).
Also the 'bad' teachers cannot just be judged on performance with exam results etc, although no one wants to believe it, as that is down to the children/school/home life and surroundings. Not nice but some school get the dregs and try best but always onto a poor result. Same with NQT as how will these be judged? As will class share and team teach so who to say which one is causing the problem and everyone in a new jobs has to learn.
Tough one but agree alot of deadwood around in schools, be it people who never knew what they wanted to do, or believe the grass is greener and career change for the apparent good life and long holidays down to the teachers in last 5 years of teaching till retirement and suddenly lose all motivation for the job.
One thing for sure I couldn't be one . .
Also the 'bad' teachers cannot just be judged on performance with exam results etc, although no one wants to believe it, as that is down to the children/school/home life and surroundings. Not nice but some school get the dregs and try best but always onto a poor result. Same with NQT as how will these be judged? As will class share and team teach so who to say which one is causing the problem and everyone in a new jobs has to learn.
Tough one but agree alot of deadwood around in schools, be it people who never knew what they wanted to do, or believe the grass is greener and career change for the apparent good life and long holidays down to the teachers in last 5 years of teaching till retirement and suddenly lose all motivation for the job.
One thing for sure I couldn't be one . .
13 January 2012, 04:19 PM
#17
Personally I think the damage done to students by poor teaching is far greater than the damage done to the occasional teacher sacked for not getting on with the head.
Back in my school days (~10yrs ago) there was a crap teacher, who knew little about his subject matter. Several pupils complained (not trouble-making students, but ones who could recognise they weren't getting the tutoring they needed) and it took a few years before he was eventually asked to leave (not sacked).
Back in my school days (~10yrs ago) there was a crap teacher, who knew little about his subject matter. Several pupils complained (not trouble-making students, but ones who could recognise they weren't getting the tutoring they needed) and it took a few years before he was eventually asked to leave (not sacked).
13 January 2012, 04:21 PM
#18
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: ....
Posts: 6,621
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My daughter had almost her whole second year written off due to a lazy arsed teacher, coming up to retirement, who just couldn't be bothered.
Even the Head told us as much.
Fortunately my daughter is very bright (like her dad
) so it really hasn't affected her.
This is in primary school, and at that age I don't feel it a massive problem as there's time to sort it, but any higher up the education chain then it's only right these teachers are booted out as soon as.
Even the Head told us as much.
Fortunately my daughter is very bright (like her dad
) so it really hasn't affected her.This is in primary school, and at that age I don't feel it a massive problem as there's time to sort it, but any higher up the education chain then it's only right these teachers are booted out as soon as.
13 January 2012, 04:23 PM
#19
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 285
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think this shows how peoples attitude have changed. Silly cartoon but the truth as 'my child' is an angel mentality is heaping even more pressure on teachers both good and bad. Unfortunately as with anything always look at the bad bit first and blame the teacher. If your child wants to learn they will. Bet we were all the same at school im sure. Lessons we liked we did well and lessons we never then sod them?
Anyway I find the cartoon quite amusing!
Oh and I agree to bring them more in line etc with stricter procedures but need to be careful as one bad school @blaming@ all the teachers will soon be closing down! Still half the dumb ar$es that taught me would have been struck off for sure!!
Anyway I find the cartoon quite amusing!
Oh and I agree to bring them more in line etc with stricter procedures but need to be careful as one bad school @blaming@ all the teachers will soon be closing down! Still half the dumb ar$es that taught me would have been struck off for sure!!
Last edited by scotty_b; 13 January 2012 at 04:31 PM.
13 January 2012, 05:13 PM
#20
Scooby Regular
Working in the sector, I *do* agree with this, as it's a good idea.
My only reservation is that the urge for some caution. Reason? Educators are graded in organisations using markers that closely link to those used by OFSTED. ie Grade 1= fantastic, Grade 4=well, not so good (FWIW, I'm a Grade 1 
)
These observations are primarily based on classroom obs, which is very good.
However, I have 2 concerns -
1. Will there be a similar system in place for getting shot of ineffective management (in schools and FE for example)
2. As per Industry now, if an employee is under-performing, they have the right to be supported to get their "game" back to normal (especially if they were good prior to this under-performance).... this will invariably take longer than a month.
I only hope that this aspect of leniency is taken into account.
2. In order to overcome the concerns about "bully-boy" tactics, each organisation will have to consider the appeals aspect (which in itself could cost a fortune)..... food for thought.
Needless to say, those who consistently under-perform will have larger (and more immediate) concerns!
And in all fairness, those that shouldn't even be in the profession will soon be found out and as such encouraged to pursue alternative career-paths...........
I agree totally in principle, but it needs to be executed properly and fairly...... and this is where I have my concerns.......
My only reservation is that the urge for some caution. Reason? Educators are graded in organisations using markers that closely link to those used by OFSTED. ie Grade 1= fantastic, Grade 4=well, not so good
(FWIW, I'm a Grade 1 )These observations are primarily based on classroom obs, which is very good.
However, I have 2 concerns -
1. Will there be a similar system in place for getting shot of ineffective management (in schools and FE for example)
2. As per Industry now, if an employee is under-performing, they have the right to be supported to get their "game" back to normal (especially if they were good prior to this under-performance).... this will invariably take longer than a month.
I only hope that this aspect of leniency is taken into account.
2. In order to overcome the concerns about "bully-boy" tactics, each organisation will have to consider the appeals aspect (which in itself could cost a fortune)..... food for thought.
Needless to say, those who consistently under-perform will have larger (and more immediate) concerns!
And in all fairness, those that shouldn't even be in the profession will soon be found out and as such encouraged to pursue alternative career-paths...........I agree totally in principle, but it needs to be executed properly and fairly...... and this is where I have my concerns.......
13 January 2012, 05:26 PM
#21
How is this different to somebody in a workplace (office/warehouse/shop etc) who's boss doesn't like them, but does like the person doing a naff job? I've seen this many times over the years. This legislation just brings teachers in line with every other employed person in the country. Don't see why they need special treatment...
Did the nassssty teachers at school frighten you then? Awwwwww.
13 January 2012, 05:32 PM
#22
Heads have their favourites and those who make life a bit challenging for them.
Teachers who are not doing service to children should be sacked ...... but not ones who happen to challenge the Head.
So, it needs acreful monitoring - and NOT by the Governors who (in the most part) always agree with the Head as they have nothing else to go on.
But, I think only 3 teachers in 50 years have been sacked for being poor .... we all know that figure should be a hec of a lot higher than that!!!
Teachers who are not doing service to children should be sacked ...... but not ones who happen to challenge the Head.
So, it needs acreful monitoring - and NOT by the Governors who (in the most part) always agree with the Head as they have nothing else to go on.
But, I think only 3 teachers in 50 years have been sacked for being poor .... we all know that figure should be a hec of a lot higher than that!!!
But hey, why let the truth get in the way of yet another anti-teacher post?
What happened to you? Voted off as Chairman?
13 January 2012, 05:41 PM
#23
As for who says teachers are, or aren't performing, OFSTED.
A Government-run quango who move the goal posts to suit the government.
For example, they had the following grades:
Outstanding,
Good,
Acceptable,
Unacceptable,
Poor.
In which the word "acceptable" meant just that.
THEN they/government came up with the idea that "Acceptable" really wasn't good enough, so now only the top two categories are deemed OK.
Guess what?
Yes, overnight, around 15% of teachers joined the "not good enough" group.
Political manoeuvring? You bet. It happened just before government needed to announce no pay rises for two years......WHAT a coincidence.
And this is the same mob that think that just because someone has a 2.1 or firts class degree they will be better teachers than those who have lower...
Some of the BEST TEACHERS I've ever met have NO degree at all.
A Government-run quango who move the goal posts to suit the government.
For example, they had the following grades:
Outstanding,
Good,
Acceptable,
Unacceptable,
Poor.
In which the word "acceptable" meant just that.
THEN they/government came up with the idea that "Acceptable" really wasn't good enough, so now only the top two categories are deemed OK.
Guess what?
Yes, overnight, around 15% of teachers joined the "not good enough" group.
Political manoeuvring? You bet. It happened just before government needed to announce no pay rises for two years......WHAT a coincidence.
And this is the same mob that think that just because someone has a 2.1 or firts class degree they will be better teachers than those who have lower...
Some of the BEST TEACHERS I've ever met have NO degree at all.
13 January 2012, 05:52 PM
#24
Scooby Regular
Didn't say I agree with the system (I'm actually with you on this one), but if you don't like the rules, don't play the game. Personally, I accept the rules. For now
This same statement applies to all those teacher/lecturer-bashers - if you can do a better job, three words:
BE
MY
GUEST
come and have a go and see how easy it is
This same statement applies to all those teacher/lecturer-bashers - if you can do a better job, three words:
BE
MY
GUEST
come and have a go and see how easy it is
14 January 2012, 12:03 PM
#25
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 39,877
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Like any job, if you can't do it to a satisfactory standard then you don't deserve to hold it down.
This is especially important when it comes to childrens' education of course.
Les
This is especially important when it comes to childrens' education of course.
Les
14 January 2012, 12:18 PM
#26
Agreed, but ANYONE can have a bad patch for any number of reasons.
In which case, do you:
a) allow them to carry on, with support, so that the childrern's education is disturbed as little as possible?
b) get rid, bring in a bunch of supply teachers who don't know the class, don't REALLY know their stuff, don't know the school, etc?
In which case, do you:
a) allow them to carry on, with support, so that the childrern's education is disturbed as little as possible?
b) get rid, bring in a bunch of supply teachers who don't know the class, don't REALLY know their stuff, don't know the school, etc?
Let's hope so.