High Speed Rail Link?
09 January 2012, 07:19 PM
#1
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High Speed Rail Link?
PLEASE NOTE THIS IS AN OLD THREAD
===========
Do you support the go ahead as a worthwhile investment for our future
OR
Do you feel that we should put it on hold in view of current economic climate?
AND
Will trains ever actually run at 200 mph?
David
===========
Do you support the go ahead as a worthwhile investment for our future
OR
Do you feel that we should put it on hold in view of current economic climate?
AND
Will trains ever actually run at 200 mph?
David
Last edited by David Lock; 15 November 2016 at 02:34 PM.
09 January 2012, 07:31 PM
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Theoretically a train track in a vacuum tube, running on MAGLEV technology could easily run at 1000mph.
But cannot see the penny pinching beurocrats doing something like that.
We spent billions and billions making a decent rail system, which tranformed our nation, yet Beeching decided to break it up. If it had been left as it was then the Governments plans of public Transport would be sooooooo much easier, little trains feeding the high speed ones.
But cannot see the penny pinching beurocrats doing something like that.
We spent billions and billions making a decent rail system, which tranformed our nation, yet Beeching decided to break it up. If it had been left as it was then the Governments plans of public Transport would be sooooooo much easier, little trains feeding the high speed ones.
09 January 2012, 07:52 PM
#4
Are there really that many people travelling between London and Birmingham? and do they really need to get there just 40 mins? earlier. Seems to me to be a massive investment, for which the vast majority of people will receive no benefit.
I'd love to see a list of what other capital projects we could get done for the money.
I'd love to see a list of what other capital projects we could get done for the money.
09 January 2012, 08:06 PM
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Are there really that many people travelling between London and Birmingham? and do they really need to get there just 40 mins? earlier. Seems to me to be a massive investment, for which the vast majority of people will receive no benefit.
I'd love to see a list of what other capital projects we could get done for the money.
I'd love to see a list of what other capital projects we could get done for the money.
Do we as the UK look like a good destination for business in Europe, as the European model is for Ultra High Speed Trains, instead of planes.
By doing this the UK will re-coup more money than without.
Just think the Labour Gov stopped a programme called Blue Streak as their rationale was "Who is going to want to put satellites into space??" and the European Space Agency was that Pheonix from Labours flames with the French pocketing the money and the advanced technology.
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09 January 2012, 08:24 PM
#8
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W do need a high speed rail link, but not just to Birmingham 
Trains will never run at over 150mph in this country
For the same reason that has hamstrung every project to increase speeds on the rail network since nationalisation 
Construction costs will overrun massively, and the signalling budget will be cut to recoup costs, resulting in an inability to maintain safe operating distances at high speed
Trains will never run at over 150mph in this country
For the same reason that has hamstrung every project to increase speeds on the rail network since nationalisation Construction costs will overrun massively, and the signalling budget will be cut to recoup costs, resulting in an inability to maintain safe operating distances at high speed
09 January 2012, 08:31 PM
#9
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If its handled properly and the contracts go to UK based companies then I think its a good idea.
I think beaching went too far but alot of the rail system at that time was becoming redundant as a result of the rise in car ownership.
If you think about it, Europe saw far more widespread damage during the war than the UK so much of the infrastructure there isnt as old as in the UK and far more modern. The money was also spent unwisely, particularly the change to diesel. There was just no need to scrap fairly new built steam for costly diesels. That money should have been spent on the network then the trains.
I think beaching went too far but alot of the rail system at that time was becoming redundant as a result of the rise in car ownership.
If you think about it, Europe saw far more widespread damage during the war than the UK so much of the infrastructure there isnt as old as in the UK and far more modern. The money was also spent unwisely, particularly the change to diesel. There was just no need to scrap fairly new built steam for costly diesels. That money should have been spent on the network then the trains.
Last edited by EddScott; 09 January 2012 at 08:33 PM.
09 January 2012, 08:58 PM
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Yes it,s going to cost a lot of money but hey the government gives hundreds of millions to other countries as charity funds each year and not many people have much faith in our government so for british people to get something would be good imo. I would use it for sure.
09 January 2012, 09:05 PM
#11
Biggest problem with HS2 is it goes to New Street Station. Any new link going through here will be an UTTER WASTE OF TIME AND MONEY!!
New Street needs completely destroying. It cannot be expanded due to what is around it. The only way for it to work is put a hub outside of the city and use New street as a end terminal for traffic going solely to/from the city itself.
My proposal is to expand Birmingham International into a giant 'hub' and bring HS2 into there, then link all the local train networks to it and also put a highspeed link between BHX international to the city for anyone who just needs to go into Brum.
That way it'll handle anyone going from national to local AND anyone going by air to train. Plus it hooks straight to the existing main line, so by-passes Birmingham city for through traffic.
As long as they keep insisting on using New Street, it will never work...There is no space to expand it, the existing rail links in/out of it already put it beyond capacity. As a result there is no proper link from the airport or to the local train network. For example, you currently have to WALK from New Street to Snow hill to get the train to Worcester!! Unacceptable! And HS2 will not change this (as the problem is due to lack of capacity at New Street )
Birmingham international is surrounded by fields and car parks so can easily be expanded and provide good access to international travellers wanting to use the train when landing in Brum. All it need is a new high speed access from it to the City; Not the current crappy affair that gets held up for 20mins due congestion at New Street, offloading national traffic away from New street would enable it to cope.
New Street needs completely destroying. It cannot be expanded due to what is around it. The only way for it to work is put a hub outside of the city and use New street as a end terminal for traffic going solely to/from the city itself.
My proposal is to expand Birmingham International into a giant 'hub' and bring HS2 into there, then link all the local train networks to it and also put a highspeed link between BHX international to the city for anyone who just needs to go into Brum.
That way it'll handle anyone going from national to local AND anyone going by air to train. Plus it hooks straight to the existing main line, so by-passes Birmingham city for through traffic.
As long as they keep insisting on using New Street, it will never work...There is no space to expand it, the existing rail links in/out of it already put it beyond capacity. As a result there is no proper link from the airport or to the local train network. For example, you currently have to WALK from New Street to Snow hill to get the train to Worcester!! Unacceptable! And HS2 will not change this (as the problem is due to lack of capacity at New Street )
Birmingham international is surrounded by fields and car parks so can easily be expanded and provide good access to international travellers wanting to use the train when landing in Brum. All it need is a new high speed access from it to the City; Not the current crappy affair that gets held up for 20mins due congestion at New Street, offloading national traffic away from New street would enable it to cope.
Last edited by ALi-B; 09 January 2012 at 09:08 PM.
09 January 2012, 09:13 PM
#12
This is the reason why.
Do we as the UK look like a good destination for business in Europe, as the European model is for Ultra High Speed Trains, instead of planes.
By doing this the UK will re-coup more money than without.
Just think the Labour Gov stopped a programme called Blue Streak as their rationale was "Who is going to want to put satellites into space??" and the European Space Agency was that Pheonix from Labours flames with the French pocketing the money and the advanced technology.
Do we as the UK look like a good destination for business in Europe, as the European model is for Ultra High Speed Trains, instead of planes.
By doing this the UK will re-coup more money than without.
Just think the Labour Gov stopped a programme called Blue Streak as their rationale was "Who is going to want to put satellites into space??" and the European Space Agency was that Pheonix from Labours flames with the French pocketing the money and the advanced technology.
The Spanish have built most it astonishingly quick too, probably twice as quick as what we'll take to complete our half-arsed effort: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AVE
Last edited by ALi-B; 09 January 2012 at 09:17 PM. Reason: links 'n piccies
09 January 2012, 09:39 PM
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I suspect under EC law contracts will have to go out to European contractors.
Biggest problem with HS2 is it goes to New Street Station. Any new link going through here will be an UTTER WASTE OF TIME AND MONEY!!
New Street needs completely destroying. It cannot be expanded due to what is around it. The only way for it to work is put a hub outside of the city and use New street as a end terminal for traffic going solely to/from the city itself.
My proposal is to expand Birmingham International into a giant 'hub' and bring HS2 into there, then link all the local train networks to it and also put a highspeed link between BHX international to the city for anyone who just needs to go into Brum.
That way it'll handle anyone going from national to local AND anyone going by air to train. Plus it hooks straight to the existing main line, so by-passes Birmingham city for through traffic.
As long as they keep insisting on using New Street, it will never work...There is no space to expand it, the existing rail links in/out of it already put it beyond capacity. As a result there is no proper link from the airport or to the local train network. For example, you currently have to WALK from New Street to Snow hill to get the train to Worcester!! Unacceptable! And HS2 will not change this (as the problem is due to lack of capacity at New Street )
Birmingham international is surrounded by fields and car parks so can easily be expanded and provide good access to international travellers wanting to use the train when landing in Brum. All it need is a new high speed access from it to the City; Not the current crappy affair that gets held up for 20mins due congestion at New Street, offloading national traffic away from New street would enable it to cope.
New Street needs completely destroying. It cannot be expanded due to what is around it. The only way for it to work is put a hub outside of the city and use New street as a end terminal for traffic going solely to/from the city itself.
My proposal is to expand Birmingham International into a giant 'hub' and bring HS2 into there, then link all the local train networks to it and also put a highspeed link between BHX international to the city for anyone who just needs to go into Brum.
That way it'll handle anyone going from national to local AND anyone going by air to train. Plus it hooks straight to the existing main line, so by-passes Birmingham city for through traffic.
As long as they keep insisting on using New Street, it will never work...There is no space to expand it, the existing rail links in/out of it already put it beyond capacity. As a result there is no proper link from the airport or to the local train network. For example, you currently have to WALK from New Street to Snow hill to get the train to Worcester!! Unacceptable! And HS2 will not change this (as the problem is due to lack of capacity at New Street )
Birmingham international is surrounded by fields and car parks so can easily be expanded and provide good access to international travellers wanting to use the train when landing in Brum. All it need is a new high speed access from it to the City; Not the current crappy affair that gets held up for 20mins due congestion at New Street, offloading national traffic away from New street would enable it to cope.
David
09 January 2012, 09:53 PM
#14
Biggest problem with HS2 is it goes to New Street Station. Any new link going through here will be an UTTER WASTE OF TIME AND MONEY!!
New Street needs completely destroying. It cannot be expanded due to what is around it. The only way for it to work is put a hub outside of the city and use New street as a end terminal for traffic going solely to/from the city itself.
My proposal is to expand Birmingham International into a giant 'hub' and bring HS2 into there, then link all the local train networks to it and also put a highspeed link between BHX international to the city for anyone who just needs to go into Brum.
That way it'll handle anyone going from national to local AND anyone going by air to train. Plus it hooks straight to the existing main line, so by-passes Birmingham city for through traffic.
As long as they keep insisting on using New Street, it will never work...There is no space to expand it, the existing rail links in/out of it already put it beyond capacity. As a result there is no proper link from the airport or to the local train network. For example, you currently have to WALK from New Street to Snow hill to get the train to Worcester!! Unacceptable! And HS2 will not change this (as the problem is due to lack of capacity at New Street )
Birmingham international is surrounded by fields and car parks so can easily be expanded and provide good access to international travellers wanting to use the train when landing in Brum. All it need is a new high speed access from it to the City; Not the current crappy affair that gets held up for 20mins due congestion at New Street, offloading national traffic away from New street would enable it to cope.
New Street needs completely destroying. It cannot be expanded due to what is around it. The only way for it to work is put a hub outside of the city and use New street as a end terminal for traffic going solely to/from the city itself.
My proposal is to expand Birmingham International into a giant 'hub' and bring HS2 into there, then link all the local train networks to it and also put a highspeed link between BHX international to the city for anyone who just needs to go into Brum.
That way it'll handle anyone going from national to local AND anyone going by air to train. Plus it hooks straight to the existing main line, so by-passes Birmingham city for through traffic.
As long as they keep insisting on using New Street, it will never work...There is no space to expand it, the existing rail links in/out of it already put it beyond capacity. As a result there is no proper link from the airport or to the local train network. For example, you currently have to WALK from New Street to Snow hill to get the train to Worcester!! Unacceptable! And HS2 will not change this (as the problem is due to lack of capacity at New Street )
Birmingham international is surrounded by fields and car parks so can easily be expanded and provide good access to international travellers wanting to use the train when landing in Brum. All it need is a new high speed access from it to the City; Not the current crappy affair that gets held up for 20mins due congestion at New Street, offloading national traffic away from New street would enable it to cope.
Complete waste of money in my opinion - although if they do go ahead I'm hoping they stick with the current route because Labour's (and Arup's) favoured alternative goes within a few hundred yards of my house.
09 January 2012, 10:13 PM
#15
The French have already perfected the idea of a high speed station OUTside a town, with a shuttle service INTO the town.
Of course, industry and commerce has now grown up around the HighSpeed stations.
Oh, and we already HAVE trains running at over 150mph in the UK, albeit only a short distance.
Of course, industry and commerce has now grown up around the HighSpeed stations.
Oh, and we already HAVE trains running at over 150mph in the UK, albeit only a short distance.
09 January 2012, 10:45 PM
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I would rather see bigger trains being built with more seats, as most rush hour train users will probably confirm, over crowding is getting crazy. Faster trains won't sort that problem out, probably make it worse as more people will use them
09 January 2012, 11:25 PM
#18
HS2 is not going to go to New Street. The plan is for a new station near Curzon Street, which will mean a 10 minute walk for anyone wanting to connect to other services in New Street (or longer if you need to go to Snow Hill), offsetting almost half of the proposed 23 minute improvement in journey times. There is no plan to move existing services to the new Curzon Street station.
Complete waste of money in my opinion - although if they do go ahead I'm hoping they stick with the current route because Labour's (and Arup's) favoured alternative goes within a few hundred yards of my house.
Complete waste of money in my opinion - although if they do go ahead I'm hoping they stick with the current route because Labour's (and Arup's) favoured alternative goes within a few hundred yards of my house.
I think I got my wires crossed when I heard they were still retaining new street without expanding it. Currently its an embarrasment, HS2 will make it even more so if you need to walk to get another train that goes to the airport or other Midlands non-main line stations.
We do need extra rail links, but this is not the way to do it.
Last edited by ALi-B; 09 January 2012 at 11:26 PM.
09 January 2012, 11:33 PM
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But then the HS link is NOT a UK inspired project, it comes straight from the EU, which explains why, with the exception of those MPs who will get bulldozed for it, not many have spoken out against it. See here ... http://www.tactran.gov.uk/documents/...sAppendixG.pdf ... page 31 on. (Sorry, a consultation document but best I could find at short notice).
There is NO reason why we (the UK) should build this line. Let's spend a lot less, partly because we have only got a LOT less, on sorting out the rail issues we have with the current network. How about enough carriages so most people can sit down, for one!
In the current economic climate there's absolutely no valid reason to spend so much money to p!ss off and in-debt so many people for so little reason.
Dave
There is NO reason why we (the UK) should build this line. Let's spend a lot less, partly because we have only got a LOT less, on sorting out the rail issues we have with the current network. How about enough carriages so most people can sit down, for one!
In the current economic climate there's absolutely no valid reason to spend so much money to p!ss off and in-debt so many people for so little reason.
Dave
09 January 2012, 11:36 PM
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I'd rather the A453 is widened to dual carriageway so we can get to the new train station which they decided to build short of East Midlands airport meaning you still have to drive there.
09 January 2012, 11:47 PM
#22
Well thats part of the problem....how does one get to/from the Birmingham Terminal?
Magic carpet??
Useless. The majority of succesful business people that work in Birmingham especially the high flyers actually live quite far outside of the City. Those that need to travel to London usually jump on the train at Birmingham International (airport) as thats on the main line, next to the motorway with loads of car parking and its served well by bus and coach (national express etc). The car park is a smorgasborg of Bavarian prestige, with a minor spattering of Solihull and Newport Pagnell's finest (and yes, plenty do get nicked
). So...there is a new staion to be built threre....good idea!......BUT.....However the station thats being built there is on the wrong side of the NEC and propsals say its going use a 'people mover' like the one currently there. which is a poxy 'cable car' with the capacity of 20 people (used to be a prototype maglev - which was much smoother than the current jolty affair) to get people to the other rail terminal.
Last edited by ALi-B; 10 January 2012 at 10:44 AM.
10 January 2012, 09:12 AM
#23
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Are there really that many people travelling between London and Birmingham? and do they really need to get there just 40 mins? earlier. Seems to me to be a massive investment, for which the vast majority of people will receive no benefit.
I'd love to see a list of what other capital projects we could get done for the money.
I'd love to see a list of what other capital projects we could get done for the money.
That's how I feel. Actually, I think it only saves 25 minutes, but I may be wrong.
10 January 2012, 11:22 AM
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I think it would be far better to spend the cash on improving the existing rail service so that it is a much easier and more pleasant experience for users. More carriages etc would bring more commuters and ticket prices could be lowered. The train service was always very convenient and cheap before Beeching screweed it all up.
Going to all the expense of 200 mph trains is a waste of money and also unpleasant for those living near them.
Les
Going to all the expense of 200 mph trains is a waste of money and also unpleasant for those living near them.
Les
10 January 2012, 12:14 PM
#25
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As I said above, it's an EU driven project so you'll get ALL the UK's politicians behind it because they will NOT say no to the EU. They can't, as 'our' parliament resides in Brussels (or Strasbourg, or where ever the h3ll they sit these days ...
), the HoC is the equivalent of a Parish Council in comparison.And you can bet that the "projected" cost will rise, as these things ALWAYS do in the UK. Olympics anyone? Why can the Swiss do this ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gotthard_Base_Tunnel ... for $10Bn when a few miles of above-ground railway will cost us shed loads more?
No, an EU-driven waste of money for British tax payers when the money could be better spent, IF it has to be spent at all as we don't actually have any (!!!!!), on sorting out the rail and road infrastructure we do have. Filling in potholes anyone?
Dave
Dave
10 January 2012, 12:21 PM
#26
How much will it be for a ticket I wonder. Have you seen the existing prices of the current transportation network?! This will make that look cheap. Therefore it'll be purely for business travellers. Ergo no, I do not see the point of it.
And what will happen to the existing routes that will be competing? Either they'll lose lots of business customers and recoup it by charging more for cattle class, or they'll run less services; either way it'll be lose-lose for the average train commuter.
If it was 100% privately funded then no complaints, but it wont.
And what will happen to the existing routes that will be competing? Either they'll lose lots of business customers and recoup it by charging more for cattle class, or they'll run less services; either way it'll be lose-lose for the average train commuter.
If it was 100% privately funded then no complaints, but it wont.
Last edited by ReallyReallyGoodMeat; 10 January 2012 at 12:41 PM.
10 January 2012, 01:35 PM
#28
Yes they could reach 200mph. The HS1 line is capable of this. Though the trains often do not go that fast.
Not sure that basing this decision a pure cost benefit analysis is a good thing. I look at all the local lines around the suburbs in South London (and probably other major cities?), and see a load of lines built way before there were suburbs reaching this far out. Some most have just been built into what was then just fields. For many now living in and around the M25 in London having a local line and a local station is essential and now doubt a proper benefit to the population.
I would think a few Edwardian and Victorian businessmen went bust for lines that never generated the income in their lifetime. Also I think most now recognise (at least in Europe) that having a true efficient rail service is a must almost regardless of the headline costs. Much like the military?
So I'd like to see it built, but it's hard to argue against the cost/benefit arguements when the benefits are so hard to quantify.
Not sure that basing this decision a pure cost benefit analysis is a good thing. I look at all the local lines around the suburbs in South London (and probably other major cities?), and see a load of lines built way before there were suburbs reaching this far out. Some most have just been built into what was then just fields. For many now living in and around the M25 in London having a local line and a local station is essential and now doubt a proper benefit to the population.
I would think a few Edwardian and Victorian businessmen went bust for lines that never generated the income in their lifetime. Also I think most now recognise (at least in Europe) that having a true efficient rail service is a must almost regardless of the headline costs. Much like the military?
So I'd like to see it built, but it's hard to argue against the cost/benefit arguements when the benefits are so hard to quantify.
10 January 2012, 02:39 PM
#29
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HS2 goes straight thru the corner of our newly built glass & steel gin palace office complex - less than 5yrs old!
I'll be less than 20 metres away from it at my desk but have to travel to Birmingham to catch it.... go figure
hmmm Might be a bit drafty too!
I'll be less than 20 metres away from it at my desk but have to travel to Birmingham to catch it.... go figure
hmmm Might be a bit drafty too!