22BUK

Spain is reeling from an avalanche of allegations of baby theft and baby trafficking. The trade began at the end of the Spanish civil war and continued for 50 years - hundreds of thousands of babies are thought to have been traded by nuns, priests and doctors up to the 1990s. This World reveals the impact of Spain's stolen baby scandal through the eyes of the children and parents who were separated at birth, and who are now desperate to find their relatives.

BBC2 - 9pm - Tuesday 18th

scoobyd00999

iTrader: (1)

That will be a nice depressing watch

corradoboy

Ah, good ol' religion showing its true colours again.

Jamie

30,000 African children under the age of 5 die every day.

MEH

Leslie

Does their religion actually encourage them to do that sort of thing?

Les

TelBoy

People who are involved in this (and worse) probably rub shoulders with me while i'm in Tesco, that's what i find so alarming...

Luan Pra bang

You must have some proper old Spainsh people in your local Tesco, I sugggest you try liddle.

GlesgaKiss

Is it a competition like?

RobsyUK

iTrader: (2)

Will they know where Maddie went?

subaruturbo_18

No but Maddies parents do

CrisPDuk

Bad things happening to children does seem to be a Catholic speciality, so unfortunately Les, one does tend to lean toward the answer to that question being yes

Leslie

Well has it been proved that it is the sort of thing that any Catholic person is likely to do?

Have you seen anything in the Catholic doctrine that endorses such shameful behaviour?

It is true that some priests were shown to have been paedophiles and it is very bad that the hierarchy attempted to cover it up. Has it been proved that the vast majority of paedophiles are Catholics?

If you were to look into it, I am sure that you would find that Catholic teachings would decry such behaviour, especially since they regard sodomy as a sin against proper sexual behaviour.

When this sort of thing happens, it is down to the person responsible, and it is grossly unfair to lay the cause at the feet of religion. It is always people who do wrong and religion does not encourage them to do so, always the opposite.

It is totally wrong to blame the religion when its teachings are completely against that type of behaviour.

Les

CrisPDuk

I wasn't just talking about the priesthood Les, I was referring to the way the Catholic Church as a whole has exploited orphans and the less fortunate throughout history. The transportation (and alleged sale) of thousands of children from the UK to Australia post WW2, and the Irish Laundries spring immediately to mind

CrisPDuk

It's on BBC2 now, horrific

22BUK

Yes, it was absolutely horrific.

From The Times today, in their review of the program:

"Our Church and State have done dubious things over the centuries, but they have not — at least in living memory — run a child-trafficking racket. That is the recent wickedness, however, that Spain has in the past few years faced up to.

Cradle snatching is the ultimate power trip for totalitarian regimes. General Videla’s military regime in Argentina was notorious for it. Spain’s crimes, however, outpace even his, simply by their duration. The systematic abductions, which involved pretending to new mothers that their babies had died, began under Franco. He believed that dissent could be bred out of the land by placing the children of “Reds” in the sweaty bosoms of right-wing Roman Catholic families. Long after Franco’s death the practice continued. Elsa, a mother in Tenerife, who had been shown a dead baby taken from a fridge as proof that her daughter had died, believes that her crime was to have been a divorced, unmarried feminist atheist with a younger partner. Or perhaps the kidnappers simply liked the money that they received for her baby."




The Catholic Church - still a force for evil in the world.

Leslie

Well I have to say that such goings on and all the instances of child abuse which have been committed by members of the Church are shameful and no sane person would defend such actions.

The cover up also of paedophilia amongst the clergy is also dreadful and the protection of the guilty ones under the guise of protecting the name of the Church is also disgraceful as I said above.

The point I was making is that the teachings of the religion would never sanction such behaviour and it would be considered an extremely serious offence against the religion's teachings.

I did say that these instances by members of the religion or indeed the Church are committed by people against the Church's teachings and are therefore down to the people concerned and certainly not regarded by the religion as being in any way acceptable,quite the opposite of course. Those members of the hierarchy who protected the paedophiliacs are as guilty of serious offences and should also be punished.

The whole point of my original post is that the fault for these offences is not that of the Catholic religion which would never support such action, but down to the people who are guilty of those acts.

Those Catholics who follow the religion's teachings as best they can would also be just as ashamed and angry at the offenders.

Les

CrisPDuk

You can't deny though Les, that corruption, abuse of power, and of position, do appear to be recurrent themes of the Catholic Church throughout the last 2000 years

dpb

indeed , should take some perspective sometimes

RA Dunk

The same can be said for just about any Government really, especially ours.

Lisawrx

iTrader: (1)

Right, so because something awful happens somewhere else, people cannot possibly be disturbed by another terrible act????

I'm sorry but that attitude really annoys me. It is possible for people to care about more than one thing at a time.

Maybe I shouldn't have cared when my Mam was diagnosed with cancer, because there are people worse off....

There is alot of bad going on in this world, and alot of suffering. I'm personally not all that comfortable dismissing one element of that because something 'worse' happens elsewhere. Just imo.

Leslie

No I was not denying it of course and how many paedophiles etc. do we see from all other walks of life? it is a very upsetting and unpleasant business.

The Catholic Church has had a lot of stick over it naturally because it is bound to be a prime target for obvious reasons.

We just have to accept that there are people in the world at large who are afflicted with the apparent necessity to carry out such awful acts and it will happen whether they are members of that particular faith or whatever their position in it or whether they are in any other position in society.

I also agree absolutely that it was very wrong to try to protect the name of that religion by covering it all up. Far better to have dealt with it in an open manner.

The fact is, it is down to the individual committing such acts or trying to cover it all up for certain reasons. It is wrong of course and the guilty ones should be penalised and stopped from having the opportunity to repeat those acts.

You don't comment on the fact that the Catholic Faith itself certainly is totally against such evil offences against decency and the safety of children.

Trouble is, you can't legislate in advance to stop individuals who are prepared to ignore society's requirements for proper behaviour.

Les

mamoon2

In parts of Africa not capable of sustaining life. Natural selection i'm afraid.

The longer they keep receiving aid, the longer they are being falsely propped up

dpb

Maybe they just cant afford pharmaceutical shareholders price expectations

RA Dunk

It would probably help if they just stopped breeding like rabbits, having 5-6-7 kids to feed is alot more of a challenge than feeding 1 or 2, why can't they see this?

mamoon2

You could also ask why they walk miles for water instead of just moving nearer to the source

Jamie

I was just stating a very well known FACT lisa not dismissing it.

Btw i hope your mum recovers

dpb

Quite amazing arrogance

dpb

African growth figures have just shot up btw

Lisawrx

iTrader: (1)

Thanks, I do too, and everyday that goes by is another step closer to an all clear, hopefully. <fingers crossed>

I didn't post that to get any sympathy btw, just to highlight my point. What you posted may well be a well known fact, I'm not disagreeing with that, I am just not sure it was necessary on a thread like this. Like I say, just because something bad happens in one place, doesn't mean anything else should be ignored as it could be classed as not as bad. Maybe that wasn' the intention of your post, in which case I have read it wrong.