Trout

iTrader: (1)

Ill-discipline, poor play, knocked out by France and now more ill-discipline

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugb...n/15234032.stm

Account deleted by request

This sort of stuff has always gone one, unfortunately the press decide to report on it these days.

I haven't got a big issue with it as Rugby boys will always be boys. Off the field incidents happened when we won in 03 but because we won they were seen as "bonding" by the public. Now because we lose these incidents are the reason why, really?

We were poor at the world cup due to terrible tactics and poor on field management and fingers needs to be squarely pointed at the manager and his coaches.

I've always found it odd that after 07 we sacked the manager but kept the forwards and backs coaches, we would have been better off scking them and keeping the manager.

Chop

PaulC72

I bet that happens quite allot but just because it was someone in the lime light they reported it.

zip106

Tomorrows chip wrapper.

As above - this has gone on since the year dot.

But, in reality these players are role models for our kids who play now.


But never fear, I'm in the middle of my grade 1 RFU coaching course and I'll be teaching the next generation of internationals very soon.
They won't muck about with me at the helm, oh no....

lozgti1

I'm more concerned about some of the beards,moustaches and hairdos

Trout

iTrader: (1)

I agree it has gone on since the year dot - but the game has changed.

When it was a bunch of mates, who happened to pull on an England shirt then it was part and parcel of the amateur game.

Now these guys are highly paid professionals that we pay to represent our nation.

Anyone who thinks that team discipline ends at the touchline I feel is being very naive.

Do the best professional teams in the world suffer or tolerate this level of indiscipline? No, not even a little bit.

Personally I fail to see how Martin Johnson has moved the English game forward at all - if anything it has returned to the amateur dark ages of the year dot.

daddyscoob

Excuse my ignorance and lack of knowledge, are these guys pro's ?? I didn't think they got paid like pro footballers? Or am I behind the times :wonder

Trout

iTrader: (1)

You are a very long way behind the times

daddyscoob

Oops.... looks like thats my something new learnt today

RA Dunk

So what, He didn't drown, nobody died, nobody was injured, more PC bull**** for the sake of printing a satory TBH.

The problem nowadays is every sportsman needs to have a squeeky clean image or the media kick up a frenzy.

zip106

Ok, they certainly don't get paid footballers wages.

The very best players may manage £100-£150k per year plus sponsorship , which considering the physical nature of the game (not to mention the mental pressure of rugby) isn't a lot of money.

Many of these players (throughout the pro game, not just internationals) retire from playing before they are 30 years old!

I agree about Johnno - I said at the time he was a bad choice of coach.
He needed to coach at club level and win things there for 5 years but the RFU bowed to public pressure and installed the greatest player of the professional era into an almost impossible position, certainly after what Woodward achieved.

Anyway, back to Tuilagi - he's Samoan, and they have a very different outlook to life!
Agreed, he shouldn't have acted like a ****, but in his defence I'd say he was letting off steam as being a clearly non-Englisman in the England side he was also clearly their best player of the tournament.

Says a lot for English rugby...

danos14

iTrader: (8)

I can understand the trips out rafting etc but cannot get my head around the late night drinking..... As profesional sportsmen how on earth do they or the coaches expect to play at the level required at a world cup after late night drinking only a few nights before.... and led by the then captain - 'meat head' (mike tindal)

I found it interesting hearing that sam warburton the welsh captain reported to of said he hasnt touched a beer since the 6 nations...

zip106

Yes, you wouldn't think it hard for 7 weeks in the most important tournament, to refrain from booze or
nightclubs.

It wasn't just the management that was crap, but most of the coaching staff need to go.

Problem is, the RFU is in such disarray themselves they probably can't see the problems on the playing/coaching side.

The '42 old farts' are still in charge.
It needs a wholesale clearing from Francis Barron down and a complete new committee bringing in.
They're also arseing it up at grass-roots level.

DCI Gene Hunt

It's your typical 'arrogance' that England will just turn up and walk off with the trophy.

I'd rather we just stopped bothering until such a time as we're capable of turning out a real team of dedicated players, coaches and managers.... but that could be a very long time.

zip106

DCI - there's an abundance of dedicated players and coaches.

I'm one of them (coaching).

I've just done two 150 mile round trips for a coaching course, I have another two to do.
I've taken unpaid time off work, paid my own fuel and missed my kids birthday party to do it.

I don't get paid and don't expect to.
I give up every Sunday to coach the U8's - a bit like hearding deaf cats- but this is where the discipline and core values of the game begin.

Then the national team go and ***** it up and rugby at all levels gets lambasted.

bigsinky

There you have it. Rugby, a game played by men with odd shaped *****

Trout

iTrader: (1)

Zip and it would seem from the many comments above that there are many architects of a game where boys will be boys.

Whilst bonding and beer go hand in hand, at least wait until the tournament is over. Sadly these idiots are the role models of our U8 teams who are the next generation!!

davyboy

There used to be a time when the press travelled with the teams and were mates, hence a lot of this stuff never got reported.

If the press wanted to travel with the team and have access next time, why would they say anything.

I'm not sure when this changed, but look back at some of the characters of sports....not just ball chasers.

Sheen and Hunt were seen as proper lads......today they would be ripped apart by the media for cheating & drinking.

tony de wonderful

So it's ok for him to act like a ***? He can't help it 'cos he's black?

/Anyway I wonder if Johnson is too close to some of the players? Too much 'one of the boys' and they like but maybe don't respect him enough?

zip106

Trouty, fortunately most of the U8's don't really know much about rugby players or their names or even watch it on the TV.
They don't read the papers or watch the news, so this behaviour by the pro's mostly goes un noticed.

It's the older ones that see it.

A lot of the behaviour harks back to the amateur days, but these guys have only played as pro's so the practices and 'bonding' sessions are implemented by
the old boy coaches.

TDW- you know that's not what I meant about Tuilagi.
And I think all the players have the greatest respect for Johnno - afterall he's won and acheived more than anyone else in English rugby.

Have to admit it though, the first time I met him I understood what was meant by 'never meet your heroes'...

SJ_Skyline

Good on you zip

My two play mini rugby at the weekend.

As far as the media are concerned, they don't seem to be able to sell a good story these days so I simply don't bother. I was half-expecting a headline in 3" letters across some red-top like "Rugby player drinks beer" to sum up Tuilagi's behaviour. What they missed out on is that he's been one of England's better players this tournament - I've seen him break more tackles than most of the rest of the team combined.

Trout

iTrader: (1)

My experience of Johnson comes in two bites.

The encounter was at a dinner of the top 50 directors of a major UK Financial Services company. He was the after dinner speaker and at the time was still playing rugby.

I would love to tell you what a great leader he was - but he didn't turn up. Great demonstration of integrity there!


The second time I literally bumped into him after England were almost beaten by Italy at Twickenham three years ago. Oh he was not a happy bunny!

vindaloo

It took Sir Clive 5-6 years to prepare and win the 2003 world cup. He's said that he was talking to Johnson or Dallaglio about it before the 1999 competition. The focus was developing the game over an extended period.

Just "Turn up and win it" seems to be part of the problem. But the issues go longer and deeper than that. National side vs club squabbles need to be pushed to one side. England need to focus on finding and developing good players into world class or world beating players.

They did well in the 6 nations this year until they came up against a fired up Irish side. Pretty much the same happened against France in the QF. There was no plan B. There seemed to be little direction of and from the senior players. Maybe there are divisions in the squad/management team that are not publicly aired? Certainly there are issues in the English pack that need sorting out. Tuilagi aside, there are also issues in mid-field and amongst the back three. Is there no competition for places?

J.

mike1210

Nor was Brian Moore

Sorry just realised that was away.....but watch anyway

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTQWT-B0EBw

DCI Gene Hunt

Does this make a difference to the outcome, or are you trying to ***** wave?

TelBoy

And is he a Facebook friend now?

Leslie

As far as i could see, the team demonstrated serious lack of motivation on the field as well a lack of ability. Their tackling was poor, passing was rubbish and they lacked any real coordination on the field. I reckon the first XV at my old school could have given them a run for their money.

Les

Trout

iTrader: (1)

In your imagination - I could have been there as a waiter, or a organiser, or a PA

Trout

iTrader: (1)

I told him to **** off as he was too grumpy and I unfriended him

Trout

iTrader: (1)

What is funny is the other commentator clearly laughing at Moore losing it!!