Tidgy

Bit of a rant this one. Theres all this moaning about lack of jobs for graduates and uni leavers, moaning about the costs of going to uni and the amount folks have to pay back.

But they seem to have forgotten that going to uni isn't a natural right, if your a spacker then you shouldn't be going to uni. Simples.




god im having a right general rant today lol

what would scooby do

Because they have good spelling and grammar ?

Tidgy

haha, i never said i did have good spelling or grammar lol

CREWJ

I don't mind the high fees as long as they keep enough scholarships for people that actually deserve it.

richs2891

Because we have brought several generations up that think they should have everything automatically but not have to work / earn it.
All rights and no responsibilties I think is the saying.

Richard

subaruturbo_18

I sometimes feel the same as you.

The douche bag students that complain about the costs going up, and then saying they wont go because of it....

My course is just over 9K a year, and thats before the cost of uni rises next year, and student loan only pay for the standard 3300 or whatever it is.


If you really want to go you will work to pay for it (Even if it does mean selling your scoob )

Lisawrx

iTrader: (1)

I hate the word, but, what if you are not a 'spacker' and just want to better yourself, but are now forced out of that opportunity?

9k (per year) is an awful lot of money if you can't absoulutely guarantee a good, high paid job at the end of it. And I assume, students still have to pay fees upfront.

I'm not saying people should have the right to a free education at this level, but I think the fee is too high.

Whilst increased fees may put an end to people wanting a few years off from working life or doing mickey mouse degrees, it also prevents people from less priviledged backgrounds from this avenue of bettering themselves. Even if this money could be paid back after graduating, £27k plus is a ridiculous amount of money to be owing back at 21.

Tidgy

I fully agree on heping fund those who have the ability but can't afford it, just not funding those who dont.

Simply put, do what you haev the ability to do not what you expect to be allowed to do.

pimmo2000

iTrader: (6)

Is it not poor English to begin a sentence with "Because" ?

The Zohan

Yup!

CREWJ

That's what scholarships are for. If you want to better yourself there are other avenues.

I worked 3 jobs to pay for university, I just wanted it that bad.

RJMS

iTrader: (2)

I really don't get the argument that the 9K fees will put off people from less advantaged backgrounds. It does not have to be paid upfront and after 3 years every student that took out a loan to pay for the fees will have the same 27K debt and theoretically the same chance of landing any one well paid (or otherwise) job. I appreciate that in some cases parental contacts may come into play to smooth the path for some people but I suspect that this is the exception rather than the rule.

In fact the person from the less advantaged background will probably have also benefited from various bursaries paid by the universities that the child from the better off family would not be entitled to. TBH this is fair enough as its the living costs whilst actually at Uni which could in fact be far more of a bar to less well-off kids going. The debt doesn't even have to be started to be paid off until they are earning a reasonable amount (21K I think under the new regime) which a lot will possibly never earn unfortunately.

Don't get me wrong I'm not that much in favour of the increased fees (my two daughters fortunately both started Uni with the old fees) but all this about how it will put off children from less-privileged backgrounds does wind me up. Maybe it will but if they can't see the reality of the situation than perhaps they shouldn't be going to Uni in the first place

Chip

You don’t start repaying your loan until you earn £21,000 which a lot of students will not earn after uni, especially those who go to to have 3 years on the **** of which there are many. And you do not have to pay any of your own money upfront either so yes people from all background can go to nui whether wealthy or not.

AFAIAK all should repay the money whatever they earn. They go to uni to give themselves better earning potential so why not.

Chip

Lisawrx

iTrader: (1)

Like I said in my post, I wasn't really sure whether fees were paid upfront or not.

JTaylor

I'm pleased about the fees, should keep the riff-raff out.

Hysteria1983

I didn't think people automatically assumed they could go to uni, but then when I applied, most of the people who applied with me were doing it because they wanted a certain job out of it, not because they wanted to get stoned for 3 years and not have to worry about washing their bed clothes.

Sadly it seems to have turned into a bit of a get out of jail free card. Teenagers knowing how difficult it is to get a job, decide that uni will be an easy way to stay clear of the problem for a few years. The only problem is that their in no guarentee that they will be better off at the end of it.

My sister had a pshchology degree, yet works at Specsavers. I also know a bloke who is on his third degree at the moment, and as far as I know, he has never had a 'proper job' he just gets paid for research (all a bit secret) and gets by that way.

Chip

A mature student as they like to be known

Hysteria1983

Lol!!

I don't think he has ever had a job.

Although his obsession with Arnold Schwarzenegger was certainly a part time thing.

fatscoobfella1

iTrader: (1)

By brother in law never had a job until he was in his early 40's.. He is a clever bloke who now works as a lecturer in the law of war at Kings college and has wrote a book on the subject..

Obviously he is a intelligent man,but still rents a house as he cant afford to buy one..??

Was it worth 20 years of academic studies?...I dunno..

austinwrx

we run a graduate mentoring scheme at work: it basically helps newly qualified ex Uni students have a taste of real work and helps create job opportunities.

Having interviewed dozen's of them, I can genuinely tell you:

I am not surprised so many students are unemployed......... a thicker, more dense set of individuals I have yet to meet.

I have no comprehension how they even managed to get degrees: no doubt on the back of all being 8 A grad GCSE and 4 grade A a levels holders perhaps ??


virtually all of them are unemployed for a very good reason: people skills, attitude, common sense- lack of etc.

the worst thing: they all think they should be earning £30k a yr as they have a degree !


I don't think 9k a yr to go to uni is fair.

I do think giving children straight A's in GCSE's & A levels is unfair as no one can ever be a failure anymore.

TelBoy

Didn't need to be any further posts after this one. This is the problem in a nutshell.


It's going to be a slow, painful transitional period for a lot of people.

Tidgy

lol, i work in engineering and some of the grads i see make me lol. Out of ten 1 will be good, out of 10 good ones, 1 will be excelent.

jef

iTrader: (13)

i wouldnt take 30k to go to university never get a loan for that much

and i certainley wont be encouraging my children to do so.

its not what it used to be and much more money to be made doing other things than academic work imo

JTaylor

That academic achievement is measured by so many in terms of financial reward demonstrates to me how deeply misunderstood learning has become. Superficial - a mere exstension of consumerism and materialism. The chap mentioned above, the one who lives in a one bedroom flat, is to my mind far richer than a business studies graduate earning £100k pa but who's devoid of knowledge beyond his immediate surroundings.

Leslie

It comes down to "horses for courses" I reckon.

Not everyone is suited to a university course, many would be far better off in a vocational career and that would also be far better for the country. It cannot exist without people who have the skills to follow a less theoretical and more practical way of life.

People now regard a degree purely as a proof of their intelligence and therefore that they would be suited to any job regardless. That will be why so many are clamouring for a degree course and often in the simplest of subjects which will eventually prove nothing to an employer.

I think that is a mistake and that university courses should be aimed at the sort of career that a person eventually wishes to take up. That way you will get those who are suited to a more theoretical occupation being pointed to that with the best basis for doing such a job as well of course for those who wish to follow a medical career.

Those who are more suited to vocational work should have the opportunity of an apprenticeship as always used to be the case and as above would be far better at doing that kind of job also.

There should be no feeling of shame or inferiority if one followed such a way into a practical career either. We all have different talents and it cannot be denied that it is the best course to exploit ones talents to the highest of one's abilities.

Les

Luan Pra bang

Education should be free for all. How much money someones parents have should not determine wether a person can afford to educate themselves properly.

TelBoy

Except that the country can't afford it. Apart from that, agree entirely.

jef

iTrader: (13)

i agree les

but without doubt there is snobbery throughout all employment.

its a real hinderance to the right people getting the right jobs imo. and agree also just because parents are rich doesnt mean all their children are amazing academics.

some uni courses now seem totally irrlevant to real working life?

and so many come out and cant get work in the feild they chose to study, and have to get any employment they can.

imo a degree in anything can be as much of a hinderance as an advantage

J4CKO

iTrader: (1)

A lot of degrees are worthless, who the **** wants a Philosophy degree ? I want someone with a brain, who can communicate, who does things without being asked and if isnt sure asks questions.

It was all very well making it so anyone could go to Uni but my mates kids both went and both failed and dropped out leaving with them with debts, I never saw them as Uni candidates to be honest and was surprised when they went but not really suprised at the outcome, good kids but not academic.

I think the education system is a bit drawn out, GCSE's, A Levels, Uni and potentially a "gap year", they end up at 22/23 before they have to get a job, and a Gap Year ffs, they get all summer off and months out anyway, never mind the Kibbutz and "bumming" round Thailand, get on with your course you lazy middle class poofs !

Some of the courses involve six hours tuition a week, thats for the time they are in, so what 30 weeks a year times three years, so potentially a whole 3/400 hours of tuition for your 27 grand fees plus living expenses, call it a conservative 50 grand in costs, minus what you could have earnt in the meantime, it doesnt look good value for a lot of students who then cant get a job.

I think the degree is obviously essential for some careers like Law, Medicine and certain sections of Engineering but I work in IT, I did an OND Btec and dont have a degree, it hasnt held me back, I did industry exams that got me where I wanted to be and my winning personality did the rest

I think too many spend three years drinking, ******** and smoking weed, all worthy pursuits but wont get you a job if you dont come out with a degree, some turn into those perpetual students that still think they are at University and still wear "***** Student Gear" ((c) Paul Calf 1996) into their thirties.

I reckon its rare for jobs outside the ones mentioned to really need it and five years of A levels and a Degree seems like a bloody big commitment and expense to proove you can learn, a couple of weeks will give that bit away to any employer but they dont seem to be prepared for actual work, some dont seem to be able to communicate or do anything practical but can bore you ****less about Jean Paul Satre and make a good stab at sounding intellectual.

So, Unit for the kids capable of getting through (not scraping), for worthwhile courses and condense it into two years where possible. For the rest more vocational training, apprenticeships and mentoring, force companies to take kids, our place hs been largely devoid of anyone under thirty for ages, they got a school leaver in recently to do some admin but its all us old ones, over forty !

jef

iTrader: (13)

ive realised now,

its not what you know, but who you know.

id much rather give my kids 5-8k straight out of school, possibly college depending on there maturity and individual personality and tell them to travel the world a year, 60% fcking about doing young people things, 40% making friends in every conceivable sector/industry absolutley everywhere.

to me that gives the widest available employment oppertunity and some real life experience, of standing on own feet, as my cash wont last a year. theyll have to work as they go. if they find somwhere and something they love then thats the time to get to work.

this is all subject to them being the right character in the first place.

in other countries employment oppertunities are so so different.