f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Here we go, the government begin the caving in process over the public sector pensions.

Public sector pension plans 'may change'

LOL at Cameron, it's like Blair and Brown all over again. Illegal war check, broken promises check, in up to their necks in major scandal check, spineless and gutless check....

Midlife......

iTrader: (2)

Not caving in for the NHS then.....The Government raised our pension contributions in 2008 (I had to pay about 3% more) which they said was enough to see us through the forseable future.

Shaun

Chip

The government is trying to implement the recommendations of Lord John Hutton, the former Labour pensions minister.

Funny that.

Chip

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

What's funny about it? That they don't have the spine to stick to what they say? Anyway with a bit of luck this phone hacking scandal will do for Cameron... hope so anyway

JTaylor

Who would you like to see him replaced by, f1? Please don't behave like the politicians you appear to hate and avoid the question.

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Well that's just it isn't it... there isn't anyone which is how the slimeball got into power in the first place... the second prime minister in a row who was not elected.

Another election would be a sobering experience for the country as it might make them think about what this sh1thole is becoming!!

JTaylor

Ok, for sport, pick any person from history to lead the country - who would it be and why?

FlightMan

Tony Jacklin.

Took a ramshackle bunch of golfers, and turned them into Ryder Cup winners.

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Leaving aside Jesus Christ who I think we agree the jury is out on as to whether he existed or not (although those miracles would come in useful ) I think it only fair I look at previous political leaders and right now I think I would probably look at Harold MacMillan who although less left wing than my usual stance had a genuine empathy with the working man, but whilst also not being blinkered to the wider needs of the economy.

fatherpierre

Thatcher, to sell of everything we have and..... oh - too late. Nothing left. At least Gordon got a good price for all our gold, and did good deeds with the pension pots he spunked!

Face it, we are sinking, and quickly.

Globalisation is biting, and it won't stop until we're even and our quality of life is way below today's standard.

Funny how we all now pay 40% more for petrol than we did 3 years ago and just accept it.

Alg

OBE Brian Clough.
(Notts Forest days)

vindaloo

Pick any politician - Hitler. Certainly made the Germans happy for about 8-10 years, and that coming out of the great depression and troubled years of the late 20s and ealy 30s. Think he may have had a hand in the Autobahns and the Nurburgring too.

J.

Bonehead

Ron Dennis, started out a mechanic now runs a massive business empire.

Richard Branson, same thing, started small now a billionare. It'd certainly be interesting having someone like that at the helm

The Zohan

Bruce Willis or Will Smith they has saved the world on numerous occasions

coupe_20vt

iTrader: (2)

Since when have we ever elected a Prime Minister?

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

1) OK if you want to be pedantic we don't, so being absolutely correct we have a government who was not elected, but was instead installed by the Queen.

2) While the usual smart **** line is to trot out we don't elect a prime minister (accompanied in this case by a smailey to emphasise the fact ) the reality is obviously different. For instance when the Tories put up Michael Howard as their leader a lot of their party faithful would not vote for them as they didn't want him as prime minister whereas when they installed Cameron as leader they were happy to vote for them again yet in that short time their policies barely changed. Extrapolate that to the general electorate and obviously the leader of the party has a massive effect on whether a lot of people vote for a party or not.... probably the most significant reason actually!

Anyway thanks for your contribution

jonc

Say what you want about Cameron, at least we can take some sort of comfort that we don't have Ed Milliband at the helm!!

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Good point He really is utterly dreadful isn't he?

CrisPDuk

We, the English elected him

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Which makes the Scottish and the Welsh and the Northern Irish brighter than us?

coupe_20vt

iTrader: (2)

I wasn't being pedantic, I was simply correcting your inaccurate post.

What a pointless paragraph. Stop trying to backtrack and correct your initial incorrect post.

Let me put it down in plain English for you - We elect a party, not a party leader.

Understand?

Oh and thanks for your wonderful thought provoking input to this thread, much appreciated

TelBoy

Back to the original point of the thread, if i may.


Public sector pensions HAVE to be reformed. It is an undeniable fact. Very very few people deny it. But very very few politicians want to address it, because it is a vote-loser.

I commend the government for being anything but spineless in bringing this difficult issue into the spotlight. Somebody had to have the guts to do it.

Chip

Tel, it's all too easy to bring these issues into the spotlight. The real test will be to see if they actually carry out the changes though I totally agree with you that they should.

Chip

TelBoy

As ever, it will be a step by step fight with the unions, and i guess it's the unions' job to protect their workers' pensions as best they're able. But at some point, given the rapidly ageing demographic of the country, public sector pensions will probably cease to exist in any form. I can only imagine the toy-throwing we'll see before that happens though.

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

That's my point really. Why negotiate? State how it's going to be and move on. If the unuons don't like it well tough ****!

But don't let's get in to a whole negotiating and watering down situation as that will drag on and as long as the unions think they wield some power there will be more strikes and work to rule and all that crap they come up with which gets no one anywhere.

They need to be told there is a reason it needs to happen and it is happening! Deal with it!

jonc

That wouldn't be very democratic though!

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Why?

The country is 2.14 trillion pounds in debt (figures from OBR last week) of which 1.13 trillion is is in public sector liabilities.

The elected (although that is a moot point) government have decided certain adjustments need to be made to some public sector pensions to help ease this debt over time.

It should not be open for debate. The are our elected representatives and they have made the decision based on facts.

End of!!! It's not like changing the vote where there is a good reason to ask the people, this sort of thing is based on cold hard financial figures and hence needs to be decided upon and carried through!

Leslie

I have to say that I find the present government's performance very disappointing, especially the broken promise about a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty. That was used as an election winner.

Far too much of this imitation of Billy Liar's methods, big government initiatives which somehow disappear out of sight later for a start. It was announced that he admired Blair's success in re-elections, he seems to think that is still the way to proceed.

The people of this country are not that stupid, if he continues in this present vein he will not have a cat's chance of being elected again in 2015.

He like the others seems to be all for eventual Eu federation too-which would be the death knell for this country.

Les

jonc

I fully agree, the country is in massive debt and the recovery faultering, clearly something needs to be done. However, unions do not see or are refusing to acknowledge this and would call on national strikes which would jepardise any hope of an economic recovery.

I would still go for the democratic process of negotiation rather than a dictatorship, a freedom which our soldiers fought for in the world wars.