David Lock

No not for me but I introduced a pal (master builder) to some wealthy local chap to try and get some work for him. Anyway my plan worked and my mate is busy at this guy's country estate - currently making his aviary rat proof

Anyway this local fella has around 50 acres and wants a lake. So I told my pal he had better do some research and try not to sound stupid in coming up with ideas/comments.

So anyone done this or been involved in such a project and can point us in the right direction? Obviously a lot depends on ground conditions but this will be in Sussex and there should be some clay around for puddling the bottom or perhaps some liner as used by some water authorities? And is permission needed? Can you bore your own well for water extraction etc etc? May be a hydrological survey is best at the outset?

I expect the lake will be planned for wildlife and some trout.

Any advice welcome. Thanks, David

Tidgy

not realy up onh lakes but i can guess biggest issue is prob ground water level and water flow.

if you above ground water level it will just seep away without stopping it, also what is gonna keep it full?

what would scooby do

FYI first steps.. You can't build a lake, only de-construct or dig one.

HTH

jods

A friend of mine built a little lake - approx 80ft diameter. I'll ask him on Tuesday when meet up.

b road blaster

dug a couple of flight ponds/lakes in the past but not sure on the legal requirments,as i'm just a machine driver i don't get involved with that side of things.
you do need to use a good clay tho not just any old stuff blue clay allways seems to be the best i have used, we had to reline one 3 times as the owner did'nt want to pay for good clay cost him alot more in the long run.
you could use a linner it all depends on how big this lake is going to be.
where in sussex will this be as i know a couple of co's that can do this sort of work if its big enough
drop me a pm mate if you would rather keep the place unknown we are based in west sussex but as said above do know others that way.

mylilscooby

PERMACULTURE ANSWER

Lakes exist because there are low lying pockets of land ,with a packed floor like clay or solid rock,that collect water flows ,from the rain and the rivers ,and some sort of barrier that creates the quantity of water and also the depth .

To copy this is a big job and not cheap,
so you need to have a piece of land with a dip ,you can make this with bull dozers or dig by many hands ,the best is a tractor with a dam scoop.
(a bucket that goes behind the tractor ,that scoops up the ground and can deposit it some where else .)

then you should layer bowel or plate shaped hole with clay ,or you can cover it with large sheets of plastic(like the do on golf courses)

make sure that rainwater drains into the dam (lake) to keep it topped up .

and you will have to make some channels or ditches that make sure of that
if you are near a road you can take a channel of the side of the road (which always collects a lot of water when it rains)and k
lead it to your lake
plant trees all around to prevent excess evaporation
stock it with various types of fish ,to stop is from becoming stagnant or polluted ,

Look for a land that already has a natural dip in it

check my spaces i have a lot to say about making dams or ponds
http://spaces.msn.com/byderule

So the answer is yes
providing the original shape of the land allows for it.

and you need to have a constant supply of water to compensate for what leaks away and evaporation.

the best situation is a gentle slope
and your lake can be a --horseshoe dam(shaped like a horseshoe ,open at the top to collect down flowing water run offs)

on the flat it would be a turkey nest dam (the hardest to supply with water ,long furrows are necessary)

the most exotic ,is a saddle dam high up between two mountain peaks ,that collect water that hits the the peaks

a very easy way is to look for a ravine
that has a little stream in it .
block of a strategic part ,after a wide or deep bit ,by blasting or by building a dam wall
make sure you put in a key (a hole in the center and width of the dam ,that is deeper than the wall it self ,with clay or rocks or both ,to prevent the force of the water from going underneath and so make the wall collapse after a heavy rain,
make the over flow on the side (do this with all dams) in the hard original surface of the land ,(never on the dam wall ) so the the force of the water Flow, in heavy conditions is directed away from the wall


i dunno if this helps?

Slugmeister

Get a beaver,
they are really good at dams and stuff, and as this is their natural habitat, should be planning exempt.

DYK

If he is so wealthy tell him to buy a lake..

jods

As I understand it - you need to dig the hole, line it with sand to 6 - 10 inches and lay a waterproof membrane across it - then fill with water SLOWLY.

hodgy0_2

damned if i know

benno22

iTrader: (12)

You will need planning permission for a bore hole and they will want to know annual take off. Lake size and depth needs to be correct for type and ammount of fish kept, vegetation to suit. Local muck shifters/grab hire boys create clay as a by-product from reclaiming soil & brick which they tend to want rid of. Failing that i have a **** load of lake liner that is out of date i could do something on

stuart69

iTrader: (1)

Contact the enviroment agency....

They will help you foc!

David Lock

Well thanks guys, a lot of food for thought there - much appreciated. I do know a bit about the subject as I used to design and construct underground clean water reservoirs but this was easy as we just used concrete to keep the water in or out Did do some clay puddling but that was a long time ago.

Road Blaster - this is in a village just North of Storrington. If and when the project develops I might take you up on your suggestion of a pm, thanks. If you know the area I also had a mate in Washington who planned a smaller lake as he bred Sturgeon but he got fed up with UK and buggered off to New Zealand so he's out of the advice picture.

The land in question is pretty flat IIRC and a bit light on ravines but a decent dozer for a week or so can make a big hole with landscaping if directed properly.

And I can't even afford a fish pond at the moment

David

David Lock

Just remembered that not far away is a brickworks with mounds of decent clay which I am sure they would like to get shot of...............

d

Leslie

If his water table is high enough,the lake will remain full up to that level. Not necessary to seal the lake bottom.

Les

mamoon2

This is what I was thinking

Coffin Dodger

Is there a stream or similar water channel there that can feed it?

That said I'm sure you would have to consult with the environment agency or some such before altering the flow of a stream.

David Lock

Well yes but of course water table levels vary throughout the year and you are in danger of having an empty lake in a hot summer. Probably need the water board to give advice on variation for a specified location.

Should be easy enough to hire a JCB for the day to establish basic water table level and get a feel for ground conditions.

And it's a very old gaffe so almost certainly an old well or two in the grounds which will have been capped off I expect.

dl

Spoon

I did similar 18 years ago at the top of my garden and it is still stocked to this day albeit in a slightly different guise. I called Mr JCB in and he dug until we had a hole with an 'island' in the centre that satisfied me and his theodalite. From that hole he dug trenches for the inlet and outlet 9" pipework.

Down the one side of my grounds was a ditch that carried water from another ditch in the field above and was part of a ditch network. We cleaned out the ditch and then filled it with a run of 9" drainage pipe until it left my property. Filling the ditch in gave me another 6 feet of garden width too.

Where the ditch came into mine, Mr JCB fitted a 2-way manhole set-up. Water from the field above would not only go into the pond from here but heavy rain would also go down the side of the grounds in the pipe we'd just laid.

The pond would fill up and at a certain level would leave via the exit pipe that runs and joins the pipe down the side of the grounds.

That work out of the way meant we could fill it and see what happens. We had hoped initially the clay present was enough to hold enough water. Several days later it was full. The exit was doing its job too and only when the pond was as full as you'd want it, so levels were as perfect as could be.

After leaving the pond to settle it was quite apparent it was going to need lining if we wanted more than 2.5ft deep. It would sit all day long at this level on the water table but anymore and it was seeping.

Looking back now I was quite pleased we did line it with a huge butyl liner rather than clay because it meant visibility was always going to be better for viewing fish.

So, although not a lake I guess the work is very similar but just on a larger scale. We were lucky to have a water feed from neighbouring ditches which possibly cuts out a major concern before deciding whether or not to go ahead. Also it was just viable to use a liner whereas a bigger lake would need to be clayed and throw up its own set of possible problems.

A couple of years on and the set-up was changed to allow for filtering and remains that way today.

b road blaster

no problem mate yeah i know that area well we filled the old sandpit on the way out going towards washington i take it your thinking of the old ibstock brickyard then lol lol

David Lock

Thanks guys,

Spoon - an interesting commentary. Was that pond/lake for Koi or general fish? Yes I think a liner for something not that huge is financially viable.

R Blaster. Cheers. I know the sandpit you mean but I was actually thinking of the Rudgwick Brickworks which was on the same lane that I lived in before I moved down to Storrington.

David

Chip

Didnt think there were many beavers left these days.

Chip

Leslie

Yes you are quite right of course. I somehow doubt that sealing the bottom would help all that much because of the evaporation of the water in the summer. It would also stop the water table from feeding the lake.

We are on well water and the depth of the well water does decrease significantly during the late summer. The water company does take ground water when the numbers of visitors here use a lot od water every day and that is one of the prime reasons for the water level going down.

Les

Spoon

David, originally I had it done to ease flooding at the top of the grounds. After heavy rainfall an area was always mushy and took a while to dry out. It was due to the ditches being insufficient, hence the pipe plan.

The pond itself seemed like a good idea, once landscaped, to solve the above problem and to look natural. Of course then with water usually comes fish and that is where the design changed. Mr JCB came back to remove the island and split the hole down the middle'ish to allow for a pathway and bridge.

Splitting the hole into 2 meant I could keep Koi and filter either or both sides easier than installing a sewerage plant for just the 1 pond. Maintenance, water changes, Koi catching etc would also be far easier too, as you know.

This design has remained almost the same now for 17 years and I still keep Koi despite losing a few the year a young dog of mine decided to swim out one night and collect them to keep as kennel ornaments. It wasn't until the morning I noticed, which was of course too late. There wasn't a mark on any of them either!

I'm not sure what I'd do now should my liner fail. I'm fairly sure I could clay it cheaper but then I'd lose the visibility I have, which is kind of the point in keeping colourful fish I guess.

markjmd

iTrader: (11)

Tell him to get a parking space for his scoob like any normal person




Can't believe I'm the first to post that, two days after the thread launch.

David Lock

Took me a second or two to work that one out

In fact he probably hasn't got room for a scoob what with the Testarossa, Mercedes, Aston, MGB and Bentley. I kid you not. I really don't know the guy well at all except for a common interest in Koi. Oddly enough he's a bit of a sad figure living on his own with part time g/f and huge house way too big for his needs.


Spoon - you sure it's not an otter you have

d

Spoon

Latest addition.

David Lock

I assume that's a large well fed grass snake?

I caught a couple a year or so back and took them in an old mail bag to release by a river a couple of miles away. And do they STINK when they get frightened

d

Spoon

Indeed it was, David, a female by all accounts. It came swimming towards me and I caught it. I do have some of last years fry missing and bar an autopsy I'm not going to know if Sydney had them or not.

She hissed but I didn't smell anything this time. The last one I caught in the kitchen let rip and I nearly hurled.

b road blaster

yep i know that site aswell but the ibstock one is only about 5 miles from storrington so would be alot cheaper on haulage costs ( on the road from ashington to billingshurst)