dpb

Anybody do this ?

just re learning how to swim lol for a triathlon myself when i spotted this on you tube

if i had a year an a half rather than a month an a half etc before my event .....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJpFV...eature=related




looks fooking effortless

TinyTim

iTrader: (3)

Christ, he's gliding.

Luan Pra bang

I was always tought to try and swim like that in school. Head down roll it to the side every other stroke etc. Thing thing I don't get though is surely air has less resistance than water so it would be better to keep your head and body on the surface of the water as much as possible? Plus its pretty hard to breath rolling your head from side to side especially if a wave from a competing swimmer goes down your neck.

Leslie

I was taught like that too.

I would have thought that the extra drag caused by part of the body being only partly submerged would slow you down a bit.

Les

The Zohan

If you lift your head straight up you increase frontal resistance but also equal and opposite reactions mean your body and in particular your legs drop and increases drag and you loose efficiency. Rolling your head to the side (correct breathing for front crawl) slightly drops one shoulder and lifts another so the frontal resistance does not dramatically change. It is the most efficient way of breathing doing this stroke.

TBH what i see in the vid is pretty pointless from a distance POV, lack of oxygen will greatly increase the build up of lactic acid ii the muscles which will make it much harder top swim.

I am not convinced the stroke is that efficient, his arms windmill under the water instead of pulling down the bodyline which is not good practice also the arms are going outside of the bodyline when he pulls down to his shoulders (unless it is the cameera angles) this is just not efficient or dynamic. It looks effortless as he is using a two beat kick (two beats to every arm rotation) instead of the usual 6 beat.

I used to swim the first 25m of a 50m sprint/race without breathing, but could only do this sprinting up to 50m.

Would need to see more to really evaluate it as a good alternative for current teaching but if you look at some of the top swimmers distance swimming i think i will stick with them

DPB - if you want to improve you stroke book a couple of lessons with a good teacher, once you stroke is right work on stamina. the problem is if your stroke is not good the the old adage applies "Practice makes permanent" and it can be hard to overcome a 'bad' stoke

alternatively get a copy of the ASA's Swimming and Teaching and coaching Level Two isbn 0-900052-48-1 it has a great section in strokes and how to correct.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ax77_...eature=related 6 beat kick
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_M7P...eature=related 2 beat kick
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8qUpeDb8kI&NR=1 perfect arm action, no wasted energy or drag 'windmilling'

dpb

Cheers . ( yeh, have been watching^^ those vids as well )

I dont know nuch about the technical side of it - god theres so much to it isnt there

i was wondering , This guy shinji manages to do the 25 in 9 strokes ( is this usual ) , stating in the pool - that sounds like less ependiture over 1/2 mile ? !

The Zohan

I see what you are saying, the breathing thing applies really, he is not taking in oxygen and increasing his lactic acid levels which in turn is tiring his muscles. He is not swimming at speed which helps. If you are competing then you need to get in oxygen - springing of log course.

I was a sprinter 25m-50m and 100m anything over 25m then i used to breath every 3rd stroke as i needed the oxygen and dropped it to every stroke if necessary. Most long course start breathing every third strok but usually end up breathing every stroke.

Having said i was a sprinter warm up and downs where usually 1500m which always turned into a race!

Its an 'oxygen thing' when you are swimming at any sort of speed or exertion.

dpb

I * think* , but im not sure , he is actually essentially bilaterally breathing but its not easy to make out.

In reality with all the commotion this stlye would be quite difficult in a triathlon ! ?

dpb

A couple of the contributors in the comments say theyve reduced their long distance swim times by large margins

The Zohan

I guess that depends on how good their stroke was to begin with. As i said earlier practice makes permanent and if their stroke was not efficient or streamlined/perfect in the first place then that could contribute

There is such a thing called 'muscle memory' which is where your muscles are use to working/swimming at a set speed and this in itself can be difficult to break. changing the stroke to another style (if you like) may help break the 'muscle memory'. I divulge a little However the best way to cure this is to swim at different speeds 3 lengths slow, three quick and repeat, mix it up a little.

dpb

Makes sense

dpb

Do you mean bilateral breathing Zohan , when you say every 3rd stroke ?

The Zohan

Bilateral is every 2nd stroke, I meant every third stroke, this allows you to 'see' either side (when you breath in) to see how the competition is getting on

dpb

Ah right i think this every third is what i tried this last time i was at the pool .

Either im totally unfit or i didnt breath deep enough , but i left convinced i had to find anohter pattern - either way i couldnt do it for more than a few lenghts

The Zohan

I take it you do (only) breathe out when you head is in the water (not everybody does and some try to breath in and out whilst their head is out and this could explain your 'timing' issue) leaving you free to get a good lungful of breath in then you move your head to the side. There are (taught) two ways to breathe out, trickle breathing - breathing constantly whilst your head is down or explosive breathing - breathing hard in one short sharp blow.

Lots of distance swimmers breath every stroke (due to duration of head in water use explosive breathing), nothing wrong with this whatsoever and actually good if you are doing distance.

+Doc+

I was and still am a complete novice however the improvement I have seen by just slowing things down and trying to nail a nice rhythm and technique have made my swims a lot more enjoyable.
I found the harder I tried and the faster I tried to swim the slower I was lol.
Still got a long way to go, doesnt help when the bloody local pool has shut for six months

The Zohan

I am off teaching (actually assisting) for the first time since my heart op some 6 weeks ago so wish me luck!

dpb

Goood luck .!

I got rung up this morning , i asked for a half hour coaching one on one ( about 2 weeks ago actually) . Apparently the girl swims for sussex or something .

Possibly too little too late but who knows


15 pound 95 apprently

The Zohan

Thanks,
It really cannot hurt to get an expert opinion, most things are quick and straight forward to sort when it comes to stroke technique. Do remember what i said about muscle memory and mix up your training with fast and slow lengths to help combat this or when you want to turn on the speed it may not happen! Talk to the instructor about what you want from your swimming and you are doing it as part of a triathlon and what drills to do to help you improve your times and stamina.

lessons usually are around £25.00 approx for an hour so sounds about right

dpb

Blummin eck , swimming is really arduous isnt it , a heck of a workout

How much of it is technique ???


Can do/ do 12 mile bike at about 19 mph followed by 3 mile run - and then felt i could do another 10 easily hardly out of breath

but swim omg

markjmd

iTrader: (11)

I could be completely wrong here, but isn't one of the reasons triathletes aren't more immersed when they swim because of the wetsuit giving them so much buoyancy?

dpb

Supposed to be an advantage , also the salt water

The Zohan

'Good technique' means you are as streamlined as possible, using efficient movements and eliminating as much drag as possible. A good technique will allow you to travel faster/further with less effort than someone with a poorer technique.

I would suggest that if you can run and cycle the distances you mention then you need to go back to basics as you cardio-vascular fitness looks fine.

B L A B T
Body (position)
Legs
Arms
Breathing
Timing

Have you had your Lesson yet?

a wetsuit will add a little buoyancy but likely to be 2/3mm so not much added however it does also offer water resistance and can restrict movements meaning you need more effort to swim.

I was never a runner hence why i never did biathlons or triathlons. I used to cycle some 20 miles every other day as well as in the pool 2 hours a day 6 days a week

dpb

lesson next Tuesday Zohan , as you back to basics i guess if im not to drown in this tri lol

+Doc+

I was the same as you, once you get technique and breathing nailed you will find it a lot easier, fitness is secondary

dpb

Bloody hell you know what you exactly right mate

did the bike then run earlier this evening then went to the pool - the place down the road 4 mile is open till 10 ! had it to myself the last 1/2 hour

i really thought i might never get the technique / had an injury / didnt have the stamina

But then i started breathing on the same side as Zohann mentioned , in as the arm goes back and out as it goes fwd again and then just kept paddling lol - im sure it wasnt pretty ...

But i managed 34 lengths in 20 minutes , which could be worse ?

God am i relieved , cheers everyone

dpb

Done my sprint triathlon in 82 mins - however the swim was shortened to 300 metres from 750 on acccount of 6' shorebreak

Leslie

I think it depends very much on the person involved, natural ability must count for a lot.

I was never up to much at swimming fast etc. but we had a flight commander who was well and truly overweight and looked physically incapable of anything much, but in the water he would leave everyone for dead and it looked effortless.

Les