f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

I finally have my home theatre system hooked up how I want it (for now) and have been testing DTS vs Dolby Digtal and find every time that DTS seems to be better quality and separation etc.

Is this the norm as had thought the two may be similar quality but different or better on some than others if you know what I mean.

I should say the system is set up in a LF/RF/Centre/LR/RR combination. No sub woofer (don't believe in them) or secondary surround speakers.

Any experiences, similar or otherwise?

StickyMicky

DTS always sounds better to me, so given a choice i will always select it.

Not sure why more films dont use it?

ScoobyDoo555

DTS for me, but most seem to come from Region 1 DVDs...

Jamz3k

DTS is superior as it uses a higher bitrate than DD. Think of DD as an OK MP3 recording and DTS as a rather decent one.

PS I'm interested in hearing why you dont believe in subwoofers? Couldn't watch a movie without mine Monitor Audio RSW-12, the sheer depth it brings to movies is awesome!

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

While I knew DTS was a higher bitrate I didn't think the bitrates were that far different. Maybe enough to make the difference though.

stevebt

iTrader: (8)

DTS is always better.
Subs are the best for movie viewing, I have two Rel q200e's and they just shake the friggin house on any action

bigsinky

dts is much more dynamic than dd5.1. if you can get a copy of a region 1 version of the bone collector do a comparison. both sound tracks on the one disc. the point where angelina jolie has to stop the amtrack train. sounds good in dd5.1 but in dts it sounds like the bloody train is stopping in your living room.

i have heard some of the hd sound like dts master and dd+ and it is even better in 7.1

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

So my ears do not deceive me then, that's good to know

bigsinky

you need a sub component to enjoy the full range of sound. that can either be with a sub or some amps allow you to divert the LFE sound to the two front speakers. My B+W amp makes the old sash windows in my house vibrate and with a DTS sound track anything above 2 on my sony amp, i am going to require a structural engineer.

stevebt

iTrader: (8)

Fecking hell above 2!! I have my amp around -56 and thats bad enough, any louder and I think the neighbours would be at my door

Dingdongler

I too would be interested in why you don't believe in subs for films. It is how films are meant to be viewed hence recommended by THX/Dolby and just about everybody else in the world.

The film soundtracks are mixed with this in mind.

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Oh dear, I shouldn't have mentioned the sub thing. Anyway as you have all asked here goes.

Firstly it is personal choice. My system without a sub gets down pretty low and low enough for me. I am more into a system that can deliver dynamics rather than uber low frequencies.

Secondly most systems that seem to NEED a sub do so because the main system fails to deliver on its promised performance. For instance an average amp and speakers may claim to go down to 50Hz, but the problem is the amp isn't capable of delivering anywhere near the same level of signal at those frequencies as it does in the mid range. My system whilst moderate in terms of its figures delivers that performance across its specified range.

Thirdly I am yet to hear a system with a sub woofer that doesn't sound at best disjointed or at worst frankly bllody awful. All this talk of rattling windows and the likes is great for impressing your mates for 5 minutes but bloody annoying when you want to enjoy a movie. I don't need my floor vibrating to enjoy a film, maybe some of you do... it's personal choice.

By the way as far as I know THX and the likes do not specifiy subwoofers, they simply specify the frequencies that should be attainable by an THX standard system and anyway that is only if you are hung up about a badge on your system.... I would rather build something I enjoy listening to.

stevebt

iTrader: (8)

Subs shake the house as thats is what the bass is meant to do, it shakes because an explosion really is an explosion If you go to the cinema the bass stands out loads as they can whack it up due to sound proofing. You really need to listen to a movie without a sub then the same movie with say a Rel sub and the difference is night and day


Oh and THX do specify a sub hence 7.1, the seven being speakers and the one being a sub

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Which bit of the personal choice comment did you miss? ;-) Believe you me I have listened to a sub, several in fact including REL. They're crap IMO!

A real explosion may shake the house, but it would also take out my windows and set fire to everything. Should I do that for realism too?

Being serious for a minute most cheap to mid range theatre systems I have heard may have lots of bass, but it is generally out of control and the dynamics are woeful. Would rather have a system that delivers proper linear response with good dynamics and attack across the frequencies its designed to work over than some half baked wall of noise.... IMO

SRSport

Have you heard an MK THX set up? MK are one of only a very few speaker brands that focus on movies rather than being a jack of all trades and making a music speaker that will please movie lovers. They use a satellite/subwoofer set up deliberately. If they found that cohesion and overall performance worked best without a sub then they would have designed there speakers to suit...yes I know its your personal choice but Im speaking generally.

Jamz3k

The .1 is a dedicated channel though, personally I find the roll off between my MA S6's floorstanders and MA RSW12 sub completely seemless and very controlled. Maybe you've just listened to expensive equipment poorly setup.

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

No I can't say that I have. What are we talking money wise here? I actually don't believe there should be any need to design a speaker for movies specifically. Sound is sound. We can hear between 20Hz and 20000Hz - why should a speaker need to be designed for a movie soundtrack specifically?

I think you are all getting a bit hung up on the whole subwoofer thing.

I would ask, before you keep judging, whether you have heard a system that delivers a proper signal level across all frequencies it works for. My system goes down to 35Hz without a subwoofer... that's pretty low and what's more it works down at that frequency properly not just on paper... that's the difference here I think!

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

IMO the .1 is a dedicated channel to, in most cases, make up for the inadequacies in the remainder of the system!

SRSport

In fairness I can completely see your point and with my limited knowledge agree with the theory but from what Ive heard found the reality to be different.

Im not sure what price the MKs start at now but they had budget speakers from £200 each when I bought mine. Mine are entry level THX MK speakers that were around £350 each and £1000 for the sub.

Jamz3k

I actually do agree with you. In satelite systems, bookshelf speakers and cheap floorstanders this is definitely the case. My S6's don't lack in the bass department but the subwoofer definitely compliment the speakers as the subwoofer only rolls in when absolutely necessary. Uncontrolled bass sounds worse than no bass at all.

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Interesting, sound they might be serious kit then. I shall look them up out of interest more than anything as I am very happy with my system right now.

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Couldn't agree more

SRSport

That is very important. So many people just want more and more and end up spending £££ for minute improvements that aren't worth it. I've had many different systems for AV that I havent been happy with starting from a Denon 1802, then a Linn power amp and Lexicon processor (mucho £), then Denon 2805 and then a 3806 and that is where I have stopped as I find this set up very good, especially with HD audio and yes strangely I prefer it to the separates system.

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

The Lexicon was a great processor.

Yes agree... trouble is I have spent enough already LOL!

SRSport

I thought it was but I just couldnt get it to sound good. I was shocked to find a more pleasing sound coming from a £1000 receiver compared to a £3800 processor and £2000 power amp.

StickyMicky

I was playing Crysis 2 this afternoon in 5.1 while the missus went out, she said she could hear gun fire outside when she returned opened the door to find things rattling about

"Thats REALLY LOUD you know?"

"Yup"

Must remember to adjust the subwoofer settings tomorrow iirc its on minus 2

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Well if it is more pleasing to you then more power to you. So many people are swayed by the price of things or what is accepted wisdom rather than just using their own ears.

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

LOL, you'll have the police round next

Dingdongler

f1 fan, sorry but you are talking some nonsense there. If you don't want a subwoofer that is your choice but the reasons you have given are flawed.


I'd be fascinated to know which speakers and amps you are running that negate the need for a subwoofer. You have a centre speaker/amp that can produce the low frequencies and enough spl to do justice to film soundtracks??

Funny that even mega bucks home cinema systems employ subs, as does your local cinema. Just because these systems are dubbed sub/sats don't think that these speakers are actually tiny sats. They are huge speakers but just happen to cross over somewhere around 80hz and so are designated 'sats'.

There are a multitude of reasons why movies are best watched with a sub (or two) and actually that is what THX and Dolby recommend. I can't be bothered to write an essay on the subject as the info is freely available on the net.


And a sub is not just about producing a thump and rattle, this is what cheap subs do and subs that have not been set up properly. A lot of people are listening to distortion but get very excited about it

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

If you dismiss what I say as nonsense then that is your problem. I shan't waste my time replying in any detail especially as you have (as usual ) not been bothered to digest what I have written..

I never said my system was a replacment for a subwoofer. I simply said it could get down to low enough frequencies (35 Hz) for ME and the system is driven properly so you can actually hear them.

BTW THX is a standard - it DOES NOT recommend anything specifically set up wise !!!