Is this Chernobyl 2 ?
12 March 2011, 11:56 AM
#2
Based on the TV reports the answer is no,There is difference between the two.At Chernoby the reactor was working when the accident took place where in Japan the reactor was shut down automatically when the earthquake took place.Also the two reactor are quite different in design.
Last edited by richie001; 12 March 2011 at 04:21 PM.
12 March 2011, 12:06 PM
#4
Could be something similar
When I first heard that the power plant had problems I thought it could turn quite serious, and imo the nonsense they were feeding us on the news isnt half of what was happening
I've been paying attention to it as much as I can first it was,
'the reactors getting slightly got'
then 'evacuate people in a 3 km radius'
then 'evacute people in a 10km radius'
then 'a state of emergency'
then 'we might need to vent some gas into the atmosphere, dont worry thought its not toxic and even if it is it wont do any damage'
Woke up this morning to find out it exploded
I hate it when they lie to us, sitting on the news channels saying theres nothing to worry about when there clearly is
When I first heard that the power plant had problems I thought it could turn quite serious, and imo the nonsense they were feeding us on the news isnt half of what was happening
I've been paying attention to it as much as I can first it was,
'the reactors getting slightly got'
then 'evacuate people in a 3 km radius'
then 'evacute people in a 10km radius'
then 'a state of emergency'
then 'we might need to vent some gas into the atmosphere, dont worry thought its not toxic and even if it is it wont do any damage'
Woke up this morning to find out it exploded
I hate it when they lie to us, sitting on the news channels saying theres nothing to worry about when there clearly is
12 March 2011, 12:08 PM
#5
Yes, when something explodes with that kind of force it does major damage, hopefully it has been contained but I reckon we are a seeing a re-run of 1986, at least the Japanese have a 8.9 on the Richter scale earthquake as a reason.
12 March 2011, 12:19 PM
#7
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There was a guy on Breakfast this morning who seemed to suggest that it probably wasn't anything to be too concerned about and deliberately venting steam is better than allowing pressure to build.
Didn't stop that insincere witch Reid from putting words like Chernobyl into his mouth.
The way the media have covered this has really f*cking annoyed me - its like they are will for some massive catastrophe.
Didn't stop that insincere witch Reid from putting words like Chernobyl into his mouth.
The way the media have covered this has really f*cking annoyed me - its like they are will for some massive catastrophe.
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12 March 2011, 12:36 PM
#9
What slightly ammuses me is the amount of people that just eat this stuff up as gospel
12 March 2011, 12:54 PM
#11
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Anyone else thinking this?
Ripley: [looking at the colony from a window] It's very pretty, Bishop, but what are we looking for?
Bishop: [emergency venting goes off] That's it. Emergency venting.
Hudson: [knows what it is] Ho, that's beautiful, man. Oh man, that that... that just beats it all...
Hicks: How long 'til it blows?
Bishop: Four hours. With a blast radius of 30 kilometers; equal to about 40 megatons.
Ripley: [looking at the colony from a window] It's very pretty, Bishop, but what are we looking for?
Bishop: [emergency venting goes off] That's it. Emergency venting.
Hudson: [knows what it is] Ho, that's beautiful, man. Oh man, that that... that just beats it all...
Hicks: How long 'til it blows?
Bishop: Four hours. With a blast radius of 30 kilometers; equal to about 40 megatons.
12 March 2011, 12:55 PM
#12
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The breakfast news "expert" said the explosion wasn't one of the reactors. Some kind of seperate fuel tank - although I missed what type of fuel it was.
The venting he mentioned was to prevent the pressure build up within the reactor.
I might be wrong but comparing this to Chernobyl is scare mongering.
The venting he mentioned was to prevent the pressure build up within the reactor.
I might be wrong but comparing this to Chernobyl is scare mongering.
12 March 2011, 02:25 PM
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From what I understand of what happened at Chernobyl the culture at the time compounded the problem. The engineers were carrying out tests without following correct procedures, there was an important public holiday coming up, it was important for the USSR not to lose face to the rest of the world....so a big difference to if it had happened elsewhere. At least with Japan being watched they aren't going to try and cover it up (IIRC Chernobyl only came to light when Sweden picked up on radiation alarms).
12 March 2011, 03:13 PM
#15
12 March 2011, 03:16 PM
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Based on the TV reports the answer is no,There is difference between the two.At Chernoby the reactor was working when the accident took place where in Japan the reactor was shut down automatically when the earthquake took place.Also the two reactor are quite different is design.
12 March 2011, 05:11 PM
#19
This is more like a "Three mile Island 2"
Essentially this is the escape of reactor coolant due to over-pressurisation due the failure of the pumping systems and/or heat exchangers.
What happens when the sealed cooling system overheats is it presurises to a point that a blow-off valve opens (to prevent a explosion). When that happens radiation contaminated coolant flows out into overflow-tanks. Once this happens the tanks are contaminated due to the radiaoctive coolant that has 'leaked'/vented into them, but the reactor still remains 'sealed'. Although the reactor is pretty much fubared and highly unlikely to be be used ever again.
This is a bad situation, but not as bad as the massive steam explosion at chernobyl where it blew the lid off the reactor leaving the core exposed to the outside environment. There is big difference between some leaked radioactive coolant and an exposed reactor core.
Essentially this is the escape of reactor coolant due to over-pressurisation due the failure of the pumping systems and/or heat exchangers.
What happens when the sealed cooling system overheats is it presurises to a point that a blow-off valve opens (to prevent a explosion). When that happens radiation contaminated coolant flows out into overflow-tanks. Once this happens the tanks are contaminated due to the radiaoctive coolant that has 'leaked'/vented into them, but the reactor still remains 'sealed'. Although the reactor is pretty much fubared and highly unlikely to be be used ever again.
This is a bad situation, but not as bad as the massive steam explosion at chernobyl where it blew the lid off the reactor leaving the core exposed to the outside environment. There is big difference between some leaked radioactive coolant and an exposed reactor core.
Last edited by ALi-B; 12 March 2011 at 05:12 PM.
12 March 2011, 05:56 PM
#21
Both 
Its pure geeky fascination.
I love engineering stuff so what I don't know I read up on or work it out for myself. The above is from memory so its probably not totally correct, but its probably close to the mark in lamen's.
I do have a degree in electronic and mechanical control systems, so my mindset is part and parcel of that; A nuclear power plant is just a electro-mechanical control system (with some chemistry thrown in ). Essentially all you have is a bloody hot reactor core that needs to be cooled all the time. If the cooling system fails...BOOM! Unless there is a failsafe. The failsafe takes form in the way of auxillary pumps, relief valves and overflow tanks. I reckon the latter is what has happened in Japan - reactor coolant has filled up these overflow tanks. I don't know if these tanks are exposed to the outside or what are the consequences of them being filled...you need to ask an expert on that bit 
I'm no nuclear expert but Chernobyl is the worst case scienario, and I don't think Japan is that bad (yet - touch wood). Three mile Island on the otherhand was a big **** up that the Americian government did will to keep quiet, and it did result in a nuclear reactor being written off and radioative coolant being leaked.
Its pure geeky fascination. I love engineering stuff so what I don't know I read up on or work it out for myself. The above is from memory so its probably not totally correct, but its probably close to the mark in lamen's.I do have a degree in electronic and mechanical control systems, so my mindset is part and parcel of that; A nuclear power plant is just a electro-mechanical control system (with some chemistry thrown in
). Essentially all you have is a bloody hot reactor core that needs to be cooled all the time. If the cooling system fails...BOOM! Unless there is a failsafe. The failsafe takes form in the way of auxillary pumps, relief valves and overflow tanks. I reckon the latter is what has happened in Japan - reactor coolant has filled up these overflow tanks. I don't know if these tanks are exposed to the outside or what are the consequences of them being filled...you need to ask an expert on that bit I'm no nuclear expert but Chernobyl is the worst case scienario, and I don't think Japan is that bad (yet - touch wood). Three mile Island on the otherhand was a big **** up that the Americian government did will to keep quiet, and it did result in a nuclear reactor being written off and radioative coolant being leaked.
Last edited by ALi-B; 12 March 2011 at 06:04 PM.
12 March 2011, 07:20 PM
#24
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just seen this tweet on bbc website
1910: Japanese workers in masks and\rprotective clothing are scanning evacuees from the Fukushima area for radiation exposure, Reuters reports. Seventeen-year-old Masanori Ono says: "There is radiation leaking out, and since the possibility\r(of exposure) is high, it's quite scary."
1910: Japanese workers in masks and\rprotective clothing are scanning evacuees from the Fukushima area for radiation exposure, Reuters reports. Seventeen-year-old Masanori Ono says: "There is radiation leaking out, and since the possibility\r(of exposure) is high, it's quite scary."
12 March 2011, 07:23 PM
#25
13 March 2011, 11:37 AM
#30
I think part of the core has probably already melted Les (edit - unit one HAS partially melted, unit three is likely to be damaged). Long Mile Island only had a loss of coolant circulation for 7 hours and it resulted in half the core being melted, and we're long past this stage in Japan.
And they did admit on the day after the quake that cooling sytem was running 1.5 times its designed pressure limit. That means venting into relief tanks and loss of primary coolant. This will cause steam voids meaning parts of the reactor will not be covered in coolant, and so will overheat and melt.
It really all depends if they managed to get main pumping systems back online and reduce the system pressure so thay can re-introduce the lost coolant (think of trying to top up a car radiator on a engine that is overheating - you need to remove the cap to reduce/vent the excess pressure, and when you do add coolant, its so hot spits it back out).
The 'expert' claimed they were using pumping control systems running on battery backup that in turn runs steam-driven emergency pumps. I guess there are nowhere near as powerful as the main ones that run off the power grid. They were in the process of setting up emergency gensets that were flown in to get other pumping equipment back online. But the 'quake may have damaged system/pipework that supply the reactor with repacement coolant meaning they could be ineffective.
And they did admit on the day after the quake that cooling sytem was running 1.5 times its designed pressure limit. That means venting into relief tanks and loss of primary coolant. This will cause steam voids meaning parts of the reactor will not be covered in coolant, and so will overheat and melt.
It really all depends if they managed to get main pumping systems back online and reduce the system pressure so thay can re-introduce the lost coolant (think of trying to top up a car radiator on a engine that is overheating - you need to remove the cap to reduce/vent the excess pressure, and when you do add coolant, its so hot spits it back out).
The 'expert' claimed they were using pumping control systems running on battery backup that in turn runs steam-driven emergency pumps. I guess there are nowhere near as powerful as the main ones that run off the power grid. They were in the process of setting up emergency gensets that were flown in to get other pumping equipment back online. But the 'quake may have damaged system/pipework that supply the reactor with repacement coolant meaning they could be ineffective.
Last edited by ALi-B; 13 March 2011 at 12:08 PM.