robby

Just a warning to anyone who uses utorrent for downloads, someone at work got a letter this week saying they wanted £350 for a song he downloaded or they'll take him to court - it happening

AndyC_772

iTrader: (2)

Not from ACS:law by any chance was it? Take a look at:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/08...tor_complaint/

...amongst various other interesting articles you can find in 30 secs with Google.

[edit]: can't resist posting a few more

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/09...er_email_leak/
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/01..._file_sharing/
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/01..._letter_wrong/
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-11418970

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/s...php?p=32335510

...and, of course, good old Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ACS:Law

chrisowe

Can they prove it was him who downloaded it?

robby

cheers Andy, wont see him until monday but i'll pass the link on

Jaybird-UK

He is probably being accused uploading rather than downloading, this is a good site for advice, http://beingthreatened.yolasite.com/

Jamo

iTrader: (23)

ministry of sound are suing loads of people and they have said it will cost them money but they want to make a point. he should pay the fine!

graeme jones

Be careful my brother in law had one demanding £500 then another saying they would accept £300 then a phone call saying it could be all over for £100. It was a lovely scam by the sounds of it from our Eastern friends.

Jaybird-UK

If it was a UK law firm such as ACS:Law or Gallant Macmillan (there may be others) then although distasteful it is not a scam. Read the advise I posted above.

hodgy0_2

if you follow the advice, as posted above, you will never even be taken to court let alone found guilty

just bluff and bluster

stevebt

iTrader: (8)

Its not as though there hasn't been enough warning that this was going to happen, its peoples own daft fault if they think it will never happen to them

Leslie

What a worry, hope its just a scam which can be ignored.

Les

stef_2010

iTrader: (3)

I love these kind of letters

Mine just get thrown in the bin

Dedrater

It is a scam.

what would scooby do

They are not a scam if they are from the legal firms acting for the copyright holders. You all need to read up on the UK digital Economy Act if you even think you can get away worth downloading copyrighted material now.

They don't need to prove who in the household downloaded it, as the person who's network connection was used gets the fines/summons.

Way it works is you may get a warning letter, but preferred method is to ask for every office to be paid for £300 to £500 per download otherwise it's off to the courts.

There's is a lot of activity on this front at the moment..

what would scooby do

they don't need to - person who pays the broadband bill associated with the donwloaders IP gets the fine/court summons.

foxyscooby555

ITS A SCAM MY MOTHER AND LAW HAD ONE, HASNT PAID A PENNY NEITHER SHOULD YOU ;-)

Dedrater

I am well aware of it, it is still a scam, a legal grey area at best.

I am well versed in UK Law, especially Internet and Computer Case Law. You are right that that the person paying the ISP could receive a summons, you are massively wrong that a magistrate could make a judgement based on an IP address and as such nobody in this country ever has.

A simple defence, the IP was spoofed. That is enough to cast reasonable doubt. There are of course many other ways a persons IP address can end up in a swarm list, IP injection for instance.

Dedrater

This is incorrect.

Read Section 16(2) of the Copyright, Designs and Patents act.

Edit: here you go..

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts1988...80048_en_1.htm

hodgy0_2

i totally agree that it is a scam

but I think a point worth making is that you have to reply to the legal letter
if only to tell them to take a running jump

you should not just bin it (unfortunatly)

what would scooby do

You can interpret it how you want - I've seen the legal notices go out to subscribers they are basing it on the UK digital economy act and ofcom initial obligations code.

p.s. be very careful with what you say on the phone when they call you

stef_2010

iTrader: (3)

Exactly why it goes in the bin, sweet FA they can do

Miniman

iTrader: (2)

In my view a scam is akin to the letters that the Nigerian's send, or someone in a high street offer you a load of Rolex's.

In this sense these letters are not a scam. There is a technical basis for the reason they are sending the letters. Now the difficultly comes in how strong that technical reasoning is, for example downloading of someone else's wifi (which is when the mother-in-law gets told she downloaded the latest thrash metal album, or when multiple people have access to a PC or as mentioned spoofing IP addresses).

So these are not a scam. Could they hold up to scrutiny in court? Maybe, maybe not, but the point is that while this area of law is being felt out I think you'd be foolish to simply dismiss it and throw away the letter.

Jaybird-UK

Some foolish people claiming its a scam, its not.

Do they have the ***** to take you to court in another matter entirely, but its not a scam, see below.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2010...usic-downloads

Jaybird-UK

Ahh I agree with what miniman said, and my post would have beaten him if I didnt go look for a link to the MOS case :P

Dedrater

I would agree in every other case. But when it comes to these threatogram letters of claim, I wouldn't waste my time giving a reply, it is so flawed, that not complying with the Civil Procedure Rules wouldn't make one bit of difference should a court give directions for the management of proceedings.

Miniman

iTrader: (2)

What he said :-)

Great minds etc etc

what would scooby do

They will be taking court action. However they mainly get people to cough up the per download "fine".

With regards to using the "somebody spoofed my IP" excuse - their tools are more sophisticated and nefarious than people give them credit for..

things like Peer Media technologies or the older mediasentry IIRC

hodgy0_2

sweet mother of jesus -- you cannot just ignore it

(unless you are a gypsy/traveller - then obviously the law does not apply to you)

hodgy0_2

thanks

and okay -- you win, you are obviously "in the trade" so to speak - i will bow to your knowledge -- but not every has that

Dedrater

They really are not. I can spoof an IP address in minutes, I can can one further and clone a MAC address, that would at least pin point a machine, there tools are no more sophisticated than Utorrent's Peer tracker.