dpb

I know its a bit of a tabou subject , but id like someone in the know to give us some firm idea of how weve changed anything / are changing anything and how long these changes will last after weve left




thank- you

Geezer

We have achieved good dividend payments for shareholders of the arms industry companies, we killed planty of civilians, plenty of Taliban, and a small number of our own soldiers.

Other than that, not much.

Geezer

Felix.

We are trying to prevent the Taliban taking power again and allow Afghanistan to raise a government to take power and control them themselves.

What we are trying to do is to prevent another Somalia. I think it was Bill Clinton who had his troops in there doing a similar thing. But he lost 5-10 in one day and bowed to public pressure and pulled his troops out. Since then, the war lords and pirates took over and we are left with a country that just hijacks oil tanker whenever it wants and kidnaps people to make it money. I don’t think the world can risk Afghanistan becoming the same.

ChefDude

interesting reading
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_on_Terror

Leslie

We have gained a bit of land from the Taliban in Sangin, or so they tell us and we have lost over 300 young bloke's lives to gain it and also while attempting to hold it.

The Taliban has overcome every force in history which has tried to gain control of Afghanistan. It is endemic in the country. They are a very capable foe with immense abilities and resourcefulness.

Our so called Eu allies are assigned to safe places for duty and are not allowed to enter any kind of dangerous areas. Our lads on the other hand are the "poor saps" who get sent into the most dangerous area of the country!

What else need I say about the difficulties our forces face?

Les

corradoboy

With a west-friendly government in power, the trillions of tonnes of mineral deposits under the country will be plundered by western mining companies for many years to come.

David Lock

Well they have brought a bit of normality to a small part of the area but at tremendous cost in men, heart ache (for both sides) and a lot of money in UK terms. But the Taliban will creep back unless there is a strong Western presence. I can't see the Afghans as suitable for training in just a few years if ever. Corruption, drugs, illiteracy - you name it. I liken the Taliban to an ant hill; you squash a few but a few thousand more arrive.

But I can't get my head around what motivates the Taliban foot soldiers?

And it's too brave a call for the UN or British Govt to say we've lost but that's the reality.

I would withdraw and use the money saved to put into UK security and bribe the Pakistan Govt to do what they can and stay on our side. If they don't the $hit really will hit the fan.

But I'm just an armchair observer so what do I know.

The number 10 bus route. Whitehall to Tehran stopping at Baghad, Kabul arriving Tehran (unless flattened by Israel beforehand) early 2011.

dl

Leslie

They probably object as strongly as we would if some foreign army walked in and started to dictate how their country should be run. It is just a pity that they have links to Al Quaeda. Can't blame them for defending their country, we have to admit they are very good at it, and they doubtless have a rooted objection to the western style of government and to the destruction of their poppy fields.

Les

Aaron1978

iTrader: (12)

I don't see how you can win a war against people who don't care if they live or die

ScoTTyB

The Taliban banned opium production. It's much higher now we're in charge.

vindaloo

Got rid of a regime that supported Osama and his friends.

Personally, I'd rather see us engaged in this conflict rather than see pictures of bodies on the tube and buses. Or have our embassies and civilian aitcraft blown up. An alert bloke with a flak jacket and a gun has a better chance of fighting back than someone's Mum or Aunt or Sister just getting to work or going on holiday.

I know there are counter arguments that would state we are achieving the opposite but that's not what I believe (at present, at least).

J.

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

Your joking right? Afganistan had one of the highest outputs of opium well before we went in there, damn most of them are still high as kites as we speak, the one thing we have done out there is reduce the ammount produced by destroying it in large quantities.

Tony

krisando

iTrader: (2)

I was there in 2007, and to be honest its a dump. The locals have had to live with the fighting for years, the general population are willing to help to make the change for the good, but the way the tally work is they bribe people into fighting, i.e take this $50 kill those brits and yourself or we kill your whole family.

They are the bottom of the chain, then you got the hardcore idiots who will do anything they are told by al quadea, and have the training to match. And needless to say, there are some who are fighting the brits/yanks now who have british passports.

The whole point of being there seems to have changed, from get rid of them, to rebuild, now its been geting worse every tour since 2007, and we are losing too many boys now. Get us out of Helmand, and let the yanks deal with it!

And afghanistan produces around 80% of the worlds heroin supplies, so lets burn all the fields!!

Leslie

I understood that they were relying on the poppies as their source of finance. If even more is now being produced than very little has been achieved so far has it?

Les

David Lock

The West is caught between a rock and a hard place, as the saying goes. If we destroy the fields the local farmers are out of business and support the Taliban. The concept of growing other legitimate stuff instead doesn't appeal. dl

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

We're in the ****, right enough.

We couldn't win there in the 19th century, the Russians couldn't beat them and we won't, with, or without the Yanks.

And isn't our great friend Obama ALREADY making noises about withdrawing and leaving us and the UN to it? (He apparently said that the CIA had found out that the terrorism from that area was no longer aimed at the US, but at us, so WE should deal with it.)

TBH, Camoron's statement that we would be out and the Afghanis ready to take over by 2014 is just so much bollox.

GlesgaKiss

Yeah the whole reason we're there now has changed. It seems to be about liberating the poor people of Afghanistan. Just another example of our governments getting involved in something that shouldn't really concern them. I'm not that much into conspiracy theories, but the idea that there are mineral reserves there would be attractive to the U.S.. They are totally skint.

It was supposed to be about protecting U.K. citizens from terrorism by getting it at the route of the problem. But how many terror attacks should we have been expecting? That's over 300 people that have been killed over there now. I wouldn't like to hazard a guess at how many have been injured/had limbs blown off. If anything, it's probably making the terrorism threat worse. There will be a lot of civilians over there now without family members as a result of the actions of armed forces from the west. That's a future threat when they want revenge and the Taliban can easily recruit them.

This handing over of power to the Afghans is only about getting out of there without appearing to give up. Usual political bullsh*t - how many more soldiers are going to be killed between now and then? And of course once we do pull out, corruption will be rife again and things will soon return to the way they were.

Leslie

How long does anyone reckon it would take the Taliban to be running the country again after the allied forces move out?

How much safer and stable is Iraq now that it has its own government!

How much more BS do we have to put up with from the politicians?

Les

22BUK

Take ALL the troops out and then, once a year, napalm the poppy fields...

The Zohan

+1

Dedrater

The Afgan people need another few hundred years or so for them to evolve mentally, to then be at a stage (mentally) where the Western world was in the 1900s. It is pointless us being there at the minute.

Theory is not mine, I read it in some white paper.

dpb

Big enough and posh enough to be able to invade some other country half way round the globe under some dubious pretext you mean ..?

Leslie

All very well Paul, but I think that the Taliban will always surface again and take the country back whatever we do. Can we afford to keep a permanent presence which is strong enough to control the Taliban?

Les