f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

On here there have been many debates over writing in proper English and using correct grammar, spelling etc. I freely admit to being one of the pro proper grammar/spelling lobby as I think the English language is a marvellous thing and don't want to see its rules and constructs further diluted by the laziness of text speak and the likes.

Rightly or wrongly I have a rule when dealing with anyone in business and that is that if I receive an email or letter from someone who appears to have no grasp of the English language or fails to use punctuation and/or makes basic grammatical errors then I won't deal with them as if they are prepared to send business correspondence like that then in my book they lack attention to detail and/or intelligence. Harsh I grant you, but there you go.

Just recently I wanted some CAD work doing and had an individual recommended to me so I called him and then sent him a follow up email. His first email back had no punctuation, no capital letters and was full of basic grammatical errors like "your" instead of "you're". The alarm bells went off, but as he was recommended I persevered. How I wish I hadn't.

The piece I wanted in CAD was about as simple as it could get. He misread my drawing not once but three times blaming everything but himself (including me ) in a set of increasingly poorly constructed emails. He finally told me it was good enough, but when I told him it wasn't as I wanted it as per my drawing he threw his toys out of the pram. Coupled to that he took 3 times as long as he said he would.

So his approach was slapdash and he lacked attention to detail.... just as I suspected from that initial email.

Not saying my theory is always going to be right, but given the line of business I am in so far so good.

Your thoughts? Flame suit on

Myles

iTrader: (40)

I bet you proof read that a few times before posting it! The internet has made people lazy, all this 'LOL', 'LMAO' and text speak is truly irritating.

scunnered

iTrader: (1)

I stopped reading that half way, due to bad punctuation. Mainly, the lack af a comma here and there.

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

LOL Whereas you, my friend, have two too many just in that one short post

Bubba po

One wouldn't use the numeral '3' in a correct piece of writing.

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Actually I didn't really. I know I am not perfect in terms of my writing, but better than some. All I am asking for are the basics and some effort in people's writing.

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

I knew you, of all people, would find something Now focus on the subject and tell me I am right

dunx

iTrader: (3)

I agree in general, BUT I'm no great shakes in the grammar/spelling department...

Yes, if someone is generally slapdash in their communication, it's likely their work is too.

BUT, what about those talented individuals who are say dyslexic ? My ex-tame car mechanic/engineer was a person who had issues with communication, but with mechanical systems he was fine.

dunx

P.S. No spell checker, fingers crossed.

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Yes I agree that my theory is a long way from foolproof and, as I hinted, it does depend on the line of work to a certain extent.

If someone is running a business that requires written communication with customers and suppliers then I would expect their writing to be reasonable at least. If not they should get someone else to do it for them as it does affect the way people perceive their business.

If they can't be bothered to do that then, as I said, it indicates a lack of attention to detail that I think is likely to show in the rest of their work.

There is a huge difference between dyslexia and lazy writing of course.

Bubba po

Of course you're right. But I'm not sure high standards of literacy are required for someone to flag your drive.

GlesgaKiss

Maybe it's important when you're dealing with someone in a highly academic profession, but other than that it doesn't to me. There are loads of people who can 'get things done' in life and are generally much more useful than their counterparts with As in English. Case in point would be old tradesmen with years of experience behind them. Or infact anyone like them who left school young and went straight into a career they've spent a lifetime in.

There are some pretty talented people about that don't really care about their use of English. You're really missing out if you don't give them a chance. But maybe it is a filter that works for you in a certain profession or whatever?

scoobyd00999

iTrader: (1)

LMAO well,. said,.;': M8!!!!

Leslie

I prefer to see English maintained correctly as far as possible. Let me say straightaway that I am no expert in grammar etc. I find it irritating to see words such as "proven" which is an ancient Scottish legal word, instead of "proved" which is the correct word. "Issue" instead of "problem" is another one. "Issue" is just the wrong word for that meaning!

I wonder which bright spark keep thinking these words up and what is he trying to prove? What is wrong with using the correct words anyway?

I will now always avoid correcting someone's English or grammar since It feels bad mannered to do so and makes you look like a smartarse anyway. Its different if your name is spelled incorrectly which does happen with my name as Lee will also say. Its a common mistake with the female and male forms of the name.

Les, with an lie

stilover

sadly knot all cad users are quite so inteligant as me

if id been doing your drawings for u then it wud have been done wright first time and on time

i cant stand bad spelling or bad gramer in emails or on drawings its just not acceptable

if you want drawings doing in the future pop me a pm and itll be done wright

obviously me fee will be double his though as he is an idiot

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

If one wants to be specific when dealing with complex matters where detail or in depth elaboration is needed. The good use of English is critical, from both reading, writing and conversing. Otherwise important points are not expressed or fully acknowledged, resulting in misunderstandings.

Last night I was helping a friend put up a venetian blind. He asked for a hammer, which I duly gave to him. Shortly after, he said, "give me another". Which is is exactly what I did; His tool bag happened to have a spare hammer, which I also gave him. He was not amused.

He actually meant he wanted another fixing screw. But beer plus boredom induced factitiousness is my speciality, especially when it comes to someone who takes three hours to put up a bloody venetian blind. The poor use of English in the supplied instructions being one of the main hindrances

RA Dunk

The worrying this is people are actually leaving school in massive numbers (I cant remember what the actual figure is) without the basics of knowing how to string sentence together or even read for that matter.

So who has failed in all of this? The parents, teachers, government or are youngsters nowadays just thick?

RA Dunk

The worrying this is people are actually leaving school in massive numbers (I cant remember what the actual figure is) without the basics of knowing how to string sentence together or even read for that matter.

So who has failed in all of this? The parents, teachers, government or are youngsters nowadays just thick?

bigsinky

where is Telboy when you need him?

Leslie

Who does indeed?

They are saying that one in five children are illiterate when they leave school now.

Les

RA Dunk

Thats a pretty shocking figure TBH, so as I asked. who is to blame then?

I left school 25 years ago and do not use any kind of writing in my job but can still manage to put a readable sentence together, why cant kids do it now?

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Love it

By the way screws and hammers aren't generally compatible

Leslie

It is shocking.

I think it is largely down to the lowering of standards by the previous government so that results look good on paper as they say. Also the lack of discipline because teachers are so restricted in that sense now means that disruptive children have no respect whatsoever and the rest of the class suffers of course. So many parents now do next to nothing about bringing up their children properly too.

It gives the lie to the GCSE results when you hear that so many of those who achieve a university place nowadays have to do a special cramming course to make them capable of even starting a university course!

Les

dnc

If true, that genuinely shocks me. I guess we need to understand the definition of illiterate in this case. I'm not overly impressed with the current education system, but 20% illiterate..............in the strictest definition, even allowing for inner-city 'problems', surely that cannot be true .

What is the source of that figure Les?

dnc

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

While I think there is some truth in what you say I think the reasons are far more varied than simply blaming the education system.

I, like many others, was taught the basics of reading and writing at primary school, but my parents also played a huge role in helping me learn to read, write and do basic arithmetic.

Today so many parents seem intent on either doing as little parenting as possible or don't have the time to devote to their children due to work commitments etc.

Then of course there are all the children from broken homes, in care or the likes. What chance do they have?

The social fabric of this country has seem massive changes in the last thirty years and not for the better. Two successive governments have let society decay (one of course famously declaring "there is no such thing as society") and this is a symptom of that.

Bubba po

You are joking, aren't you? Hammers are for putting screws in - screwdrivers are for taking them out again.

ScoobyDoo555

For what it's worth, I totally agree with you. Coming from an Academic stance, nothing frustrates me more that poor spelling (including the use of M$ spell-checker - US version!) and poor grammar.

However I accept that there are people with learning difficulties and this can be reflected in their use of the written English language.

I am forever correcting submitted work for the aforementioned issues.

The issue for me is that the English language seems to adapting (I refuse to accept the term "developing" - as this context is positive!) to the change. It is becoming acceptable to communicate in this particular manner.
However, ask the older generations if our language use is any different to theirs. I think you'll find there is a difference.

My personal take is that in a society where to be English can be seen as a disadvantage (even on our own soil), I take great pride in being able to communicate effectively and correctly - something that seems to be on the downturn.

So, yes, whilst perceptibly harsh, berate away!

I hate to think about the future when people will recollect times when we used to talk/communicate "differently"........ all "posh-like"

Dan

PaulC72

I usually work on if I understand what they are trying to say it is good enough for me, I accept people are not perfect nor do they always know what words to use at a given time, but then I am not perfect either and would generally not pull anyone up for writing something incorrectly unless it was a critical letter etc, but I would help them if they mispelt a word (and I knew the correct spelling myself ;-) )

I never spell check posts on forums but if I spot a mistake I have made and can still edit it I will but most of the time I don't so it stays as it is, if someone wants to pull my up for not using the correct grammar thats fine as I accept people like to think they are better than me

dunx

iTrader: (3)

The landlady tells me that one in three at work are below the national standard... and this is in a school classed as outstanding in it's recent record of improvement.

dunx

GC8

Can't read and write equals thick (and it has nothing to do with dyslexia, it's all to do with not going to school, or not learning anything whilst there).

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Ah yes, silly me, the old Irish screwdriver