British muslims the most patriotic in Europe.
02 January 2010, 11:34 PM
#3
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There are, of course, three types of lies. And the King of them all is statistics...
Of course, it's possible that these figures are a true and representative illustration of the feelings of muslims in those areas. But how about asking the same questions in Hounslow or Slough or Bradford?
Is it possible that actually the reason that British muslims feel so integrated here is that, in fact, we're bending over backwards to accomodate them while other European countires are adopting rather more of a "when in Rome (or Paris or Berlin or Copenhagen)" approach?
Then again maybe it's all true and I'm just being a grumpy old curmudgeon. What do you think?
SB
Of course, it's possible that these figures are a true and representative illustration of the feelings of muslims in those areas. But how about asking the same questions in Hounslow or Slough or Bradford?
Is it possible that actually the reason that British muslims feel so integrated here is that, in fact, we're bending over backwards to accomodate them while other European countires are adopting rather more of a "when in Rome (or Paris or Berlin or Copenhagen)" approach?
Then again maybe it's all true and I'm just being a grumpy old curmudgeon. What do you think?
SB
02 January 2010, 11:44 PM
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The problem for me with anybody with a strong religious belief of whatever faith is that's what they are first and anything else is secondary. I personally think that's unhealthy but I don't subscribe to any religion and therefore think those who do are somewhat deluded.
02 January 2010, 11:50 PM
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There are, of course, three types of lies. And the King of them all is statistics...
Is it possible that actually the reason that British muslims feel so integrated here is that, in fact, we're bending over backwards to accomodate them while other European countires are adopting rather more of a "when in Rome (or Paris or Berlin or Copenhagen)" approach?
What do you think?
SB
Is it possible that actually the reason that British muslims feel so integrated here is that, in fact, we're bending over backwards to accomodate them while other European countires are adopting rather more of a "when in Rome (or Paris or Berlin or Copenhagen)" approach?
What do you think?
SB
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02 January 2010, 11:54 PM
#8
I have plenty of Muslim friends who are truly appauled and ashamed of what the extremists get upto. They also love wearing england tops during any significant sporting events and with the exception of the Cricket they are very loyal to this country.
It's completely and utterly wrong to tar them all with the they are all terrorists brush.
I don't have a problem with any race or religion except those with extreme views who would quite happily kill innocent members of the public simply because they are British or American etc.
03 January 2010, 12:02 AM
#10
Was just about to say something along these lines.
I have plenty of Muslim friends who are truly appauled and ashamed of what the extremists get upto. They also love wearing england tops during any significant sporting events and with the exception of the Cricket they are very loyal to this country.
It's completely and utterly wrong to tar them all with the they are all terrorists brush.
I don't have a problem with any race or religion except those with extreme views who would quite happily kill innocent members of the public simply because they are British or American etc.
I have plenty of Muslim friends who are truly appauled and ashamed of what the extremists get upto. They also love wearing england tops during any significant sporting events and with the exception of the Cricket they are very loyal to this country.
It's completely and utterly wrong to tar them all with the they are all terrorists brush.
I don't have a problem with any race or religion except those with extreme views who would quite happily kill innocent members of the public simply because they are British or American etc.
03 January 2010, 12:16 AM
#12
Was just about to say something along these lines.
I have plenty of Muslim friends who are truly appauled and ashamed of what the extremists get upto. They also love wearing england tops during any significant sporting events and with the exception of the Cricket they are very loyal to this country.
It's completely and utterly wrong to tar them all with the they are all terrorists brush.
I don't have a problem with any race or religion except those with extreme views who would quite happily kill innocent members of the public simply because they are British or American etc.
I have plenty of Muslim friends who are truly appauled and ashamed of what the extremists get upto. They also love wearing england tops during any significant sporting events and with the exception of the Cricket they are very loyal to this country.
It's completely and utterly wrong to tar them all with the they are all terrorists brush.
I don't have a problem with any race or religion except those with extreme views who would quite happily kill innocent members of the public simply because they are British or American etc.
This is the problem with people. They see/hear the word Muslim, and just group them all together.
Religion itself isn't the problem, it's how people use it for their own ends that is. Afterall, Christians are hardly innocent, as history proves, but it certainly didn't mean everyone following the Christian faith supported some of the things done supposedly under the name of it. (if that makes sense).
03 January 2010, 10:16 AM
#19
Oh and happy New Year to all, albeit rather belated!
Last edited by Maz; 03 January 2010 at 10:22 AM.
03 January 2010, 10:57 AM
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Salaam alikem my friend.
Ok, it has been mentioned that British Muslims are Muslim first, British second. The religion alway's comes first. This fly's in the face of non Muslim Britions and is against the views and beliefs majority of the country. It also allows the preachers of hate a good foothold and starting point which is always going to be a problem.
Several of the 7/7 bombers and helpers where British born Muslims - hardly a good example of intergration - effectively happy to blow up thier fellow countrymen, women and children. But then again are they thier fellow countrymen, apparently not.
Are the people organising or attempting to organise the Wootton Bassett protest march British first - i would say not. Wootton Bassett is not the place to protest about the war - Downing Street is - this can only be seen as trouble making and will cause a lot more bad feeling in this country and in the Muslim world if it kicks off.
I am not saying all UK Muslims are terrorist or anti-British and a lot do a lot of good. Sadly, this does not make the news or sell papers.
The issue is the Extremists and whist they are not in the majority then need to be wiped out/removed from this country.
Saw this this morning and it is soon to e on the iplayer - this is well worth a watch
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode...s_3_Episode_1/
Last edited by The Zohan; 03 January 2010 at 11:21 AM.
03 January 2010, 11:37 AM
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Everyone should be free to follow whatever religion that their conscience dictates but they should also be required to adjust to the laws and customs of their chosen place to live.
If people want to emigrate to this country, that is fair enough as long as they are prepared to accept our way of life and our laws just as any Brit would be required to do should he go to live in another country.
They certainly do not have the right to try to impose their own customs on us or expect any special treatment with regard to their way of life.
Les
If people want to emigrate to this country, that is fair enough as long as they are prepared to accept our way of life and our laws just as any Brit would be required to do should he go to live in another country.
They certainly do not have the right to try to impose their own customs on us or expect any special treatment with regard to their way of life.
Les
03 January 2010, 12:00 PM
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Everyone should be free to follow whatever religion that their conscience dictates but they should also be required to adjust to the laws and customs of their chosen place to live.
If people want to emigrate to this country, that is fair enough as long as they are prepared to accept our way of life and our laws just as any Brit would be required to do should he go to live in another country.
They certainly do not have the right to try to impose their own customs on us or expect any special treatment with regard to their way of life.
Les
If people want to emigrate to this country, that is fair enough as long as they are prepared to accept our way of life and our laws just as any Brit would be required to do should he go to live in another country.
They certainly do not have the right to try to impose their own customs on us or expect any special treatment with regard to their way of life.
Les
03 January 2010, 12:00 PM
#23
Salaam alikem my friend.
Ok, it has been mentioned that British Muslims are Muslim first, British second. The religion alway's comes first. This fly's in the face of non Muslim Britions and is against the views and beliefs majority of the country. It also allows the preachers of hate a good foothold and starting point which is always going to be a problem.
Several of the 7/7 bombers and helpers where British born Muslims - hardly a good example of intergration - effectively happy to blow up thier fellow countrymen, women and children. But then again are they thier fellow countrymen, apparently not.
Are the people organising or attempting to organise the Wootton Bassett protest march British first - i would say not. Wootton Bassett is not the place to protest about the war - Downing Street is - this can only be seen as trouble making and will cause a lot more bad feeling in this country and in the Muslim world if it kicks off.
I am not saying all UK Muslims are terrorist or anti-British and a lot do a lot of good. Sadly, this does not make the news or sell papers.
The issue is the Extremists and whist they are not in the majority then need to be wiped out/removed from this country.
Saw this this morning and it is soon to e on the iplayer - this is well worth a watch
BBC iPlayer - The Big Questions: Series 3: Episode 1
Ok, it has been mentioned that British Muslims are Muslim first, British second. The religion alway's comes first. This fly's in the face of non Muslim Britions and is against the views and beliefs majority of the country. It also allows the preachers of hate a good foothold and starting point which is always going to be a problem.
Several of the 7/7 bombers and helpers where British born Muslims - hardly a good example of intergration - effectively happy to blow up thier fellow countrymen, women and children. But then again are they thier fellow countrymen, apparently not.
Are the people organising or attempting to organise the Wootton Bassett protest march British first - i would say not. Wootton Bassett is not the place to protest about the war - Downing Street is - this can only be seen as trouble making and will cause a lot more bad feeling in this country and in the Muslim world if it kicks off.
I am not saying all UK Muslims are terrorist or anti-British and a lot do a lot of good. Sadly, this does not make the news or sell papers.
The issue is the Extremists and whist they are not in the majority then need to be wiped out/removed from this country.
Saw this this morning and it is soon to e on the iplayer - this is well worth a watch
BBC iPlayer - The Big Questions: Series 3: Episode 1
Walle kum sallam Paul.
I'm no scholar but it is a prerequisite of Islam that you must adhere to the laws of the country you live in. People can be very selective in which part of their religious mantra they choose to follow. It's human nature to be fickle (nowt as queer as folk). Mental stability is also an issue for some of these extremists. I think they would be a menace to society regardless of which religion they followed.
I totally agree that Wooton Basset is not the place for any protest, lobby the Government if you must but let those grieving do so with decorum and dignity. Dignity is alien to these extremists, their sole purpose is to inflame, divide and create animosity at large.
The extremists do need separating and dealing with. Wether this is by legislative process or from within the muslim community itself it needs to happen soon.
03 January 2010, 12:06 PM
#24
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Walle kum sallam Paul.
I'm no scholar but it is a prerequisite of Islam that you must adhere to the laws of the country you live in. People can be very selective in which part of their religious mantra they choose to follow. It's human nature to be fickle (nowt as queer as folk). Mental stability is also an issue for some of these extremists. I think they would be a menace to society regardless of which religion they followed.
I totally agree that Wooton Basset is not the place for any protest, lobby the Government if you must but let those grieving do so with decorum and dignity. Dignity is alien to these extremists, their sole purpose is to inflame, divide and create animosity at large.
The extremists do need separating and dealing with. Wether this is by legislative process or from within the muslim community itself it needs to happen soon.
I'm no scholar but it is a prerequisite of Islam that you must adhere to the laws of the country you live in. People can be very selective in which part of their religious mantra they choose to follow. It's human nature to be fickle (nowt as queer as folk). Mental stability is also an issue for some of these extremists. I think they would be a menace to society regardless of which religion they followed.
I totally agree that Wooton Basset is not the place for any protest, lobby the Government if you must but let those grieving do so with decorum and dignity. Dignity is alien to these extremists, their sole purpose is to inflame, divide and create animosity at large.
The extremists do need separating and dealing with. Wether this is by legislative process or from within the muslim community itself it needs to happen soon.
Good moring to you, thanks for the reply, most interesting and informative (and i expected no less
).It all comes back to the interpretation of the Koran, Bible, etc by those who wish to use it for good or bad.
I agree with all you say and peace be upon you.
Last edited by The Zohan; 03 January 2010 at 01:20 PM.
03 January 2010, 01:15 PM
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Good to see Einstein's reply and it ties in with what I have said in the past, ie that there is nothing wrong with following either of those religions since basically they both advocate living a good life in the best sense of that description.
That is unfortunately modified by those who want to use religion for their own selfish and nefarious purposes.
Les
03 January 2010, 01:22 PM
#26
The thing that worries me the most is the silence from moderate Muslims when the extremists speak out.
If anything IS to be done about the extremists, it needs the support, at least, of the moderates, and until they speak out, no-one can rely on that support, so nothing will be done.........for fear of upsetting the majority.
"For evil to succeed, all that is needed is for good men to do nothing".
A bit like what happened in Germany during 1933-39
If anything IS to be done about the extremists, it needs the support, at least, of the moderates, and until they speak out, no-one can rely on that support, so nothing will be done.........for fear of upsetting the majority.
"For evil to succeed, all that is needed is for good men to do nothing".
A bit like what happened in Germany during 1933-39
03 January 2010, 05:07 PM
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If the extremists are disliked by the "normal" muslim community, why do they not try to silence the extreme people and try to repair relations with us?
Its cos we (the white western world) are preached agaisnt in every mosque across the globe, followers of islam are told to fight the corrupt west every day, all muslims agree with it or they would be ostracised, its the extremists who do something about it!
Islam is an evil, backwards religion and its followers have no place in the civilised west!
03 January 2010, 07:16 PM
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