anyone see horizon last night?
04 November 2009, 01:27 PM
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anyone see horizon last night?
one of those programmes that fascinate me, it was all about black holes.
Basically, it explained that despite being well known about, no-one on the planet has ever seen one, know what one is made of or can even can even prove they exist.
The problem is (without getting too red dwarf about it) they are too black! no-one can see one on a telescope, as they blend in too well.
Also, they can't be proven to exist because when the mathematicians try to calculate their existence, they answer they come up with is 'infinity' which cannot occur in mathematics. Basically einstein's theory of relativity (which copes perfectly well with everything else in the universe) falls over when it comes to black holes!
They can't use quantum mechanics either (which they tried to do cos the centre of a black hole is a perfect point and QM is used to calculate the existence of atoms and the like) cos their tremendous mass means the answer they get is infinity multiplied by infinity, an infinite amount of times. An even bigger number!
But the best bit for me was the theory that the centre of our galaxy was a supermassive black hole. A scientist in germany theorised this and then spent 25 years plotting the stars at the centre of our galaxy and the point they rotated around. He found the closest 30 stars and plotted their orbits. Then he noticed their orbits were moving fast and tight around the centre point, indicating something that was undetectable, but had a massive gravitational pull. So the gravitational pull for the entire galaxy is centred round something so small it is undetectable, but is dense enough to keep the entire galaxy rotating around it. IIRC they estimated the weight needed to do that to be about 100 billion times the weight of the sun! The sun itself is 100 million times the weight of the earth, all that density in a area so small it is undetectable.
Amazing!
This sort of thing fascinates me, but I am too dense to make sense of it. The scientists were so smart, they were spouting off reams and reams of calculations and fomulae, from memory and none of them had any understanding of what they were dealing with. The only frustrating thing is it'll most likely never be solved before my lifetime is over. Most probably not before anyone else alive on the planet's lifetime is over too.
Argh!
astraboy.
Basically, it explained that despite being well known about, no-one on the planet has ever seen one, know what one is made of or can even can even prove they exist.
The problem is (without getting too red dwarf about it) they are too black! no-one can see one on a telescope, as they blend in too well.
Also, they can't be proven to exist because when the mathematicians try to calculate their existence, they answer they come up with is 'infinity' which cannot occur in mathematics. Basically einstein's theory of relativity (which copes perfectly well with everything else in the universe) falls over when it comes to black holes!
They can't use quantum mechanics either (which they tried to do cos the centre of a black hole is a perfect point and QM is used to calculate the existence of atoms and the like) cos their tremendous mass means the answer they get is infinity multiplied by infinity, an infinite amount of times. An even bigger number!
But the best bit for me was the theory that the centre of our galaxy was a supermassive black hole. A scientist in germany theorised this and then spent 25 years plotting the stars at the centre of our galaxy and the point they rotated around. He found the closest 30 stars and plotted their orbits. Then he noticed their orbits were moving fast and tight around the centre point, indicating something that was undetectable, but had a massive gravitational pull. So the gravitational pull for the entire galaxy is centred round something so small it is undetectable, but is dense enough to keep the entire galaxy rotating around it. IIRC they estimated the weight needed to do that to be about 100 billion times the weight of the sun! The sun itself is 100 million times the weight of the earth, all that density in a area so small it is undetectable.
Amazing!
This sort of thing fascinates me, but I am too dense to make sense of it. The scientists were so smart, they were spouting off reams and reams of calculations and fomulae, from memory and none of them had any understanding of what they were dealing with. The only frustrating thing is it'll most likely never be solved before my lifetime is over. Most probably not before anyone else alive on the planet's lifetime is over too.
Argh!
astraboy.
04 November 2009, 08:01 PM
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But the best bit for me was the theory that the centre of our galaxy was a supermassive black hole. A scientist in germany theorised this and then spent 25 years plotting the stars at the centre of our galaxy and the point they rotated around. He found the closest 30 stars and plotted their orbits. Then he noticed their orbits were moving fast and tight around the centre point, indicating something that was undetectable, but had a massive gravitational pull. So the gravitational pull for the entire galaxy is centred round something so small it is undetectable, but is dense enough to keep the entire galaxy rotating around it. IIRC they estimated the weight needed to do that to be about 100 billion times the weight of the sun! The sun itself is 100 million times the weight of the earth, all that density in a area so small it is undetectable.
astraboy.
04 November 2009, 08:28 PM
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Not watched it yet. I was recording James May's Toy Story and close to the end happened to notice this was on next and extended the recording to cover it. I've been looking at the recent Horizon program descriptions for some time and this is the first that's actually been interesting enough to record and watch.
04 November 2009, 08:29 PM
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I did watch it, but it was too slow paced for me. I get bored at the slowness of the presentation of a lot of these things. Its the sort of program that they could make interesting, but have it over with in under 30 mins. Then I could get on with something else....maybe I am just too impatient 
Its all very interesting, and just trying to comprehend the scale of the universe makes you start to believe that there really must be another form of life out there. I'd just love to me alive when first contact is made.
Its all very interesting, and just trying to comprehend the scale of the universe makes you start to believe that there really must be another form of life out there. I'd just love to me alive when first contact is made.
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04 November 2009, 10:05 PM
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I thought they could detect the black holes by measuring how 'bent' the light given off by stars behind them were?
I trust its on iplayer, will go and have a look now.
Does anyone else think there are very few 'space' type science doc on anymore? Quite a few years ago they were in abundence, Solar empire and the like. I've got the full documentry package on Sky too and theres hardly anything 'new' on these days
I trust its on iplayer, will go and have a look now.
Does anyone else think there are very few 'space' type science doc on anymore? Quite a few years ago they were in abundence, Solar empire and the like. I've got the full documentry package on Sky too and theres hardly anything 'new' on these days
04 November 2009, 10:09 PM
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04 November 2009, 10:26 PM
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one of those programmes that fascinate me, it was all about black holes.
Basically, it explained that despite being well known about, no-one on the planet has ever seen one, know what one is made of or can even can even prove they exist.
The problem is (without getting too red dwarf about it) they are too black! no-one can see one on a telescope, as they blend in too well.
Also, they can't be proven to exist because when the mathematicians try to calculate their existence, they answer they come up with is 'infinity' which cannot occur in mathematics. Basically einstein's theory of relativity (which copes perfectly well with everything else in the universe) falls over when it comes to black holes!
They can't use quantum mechanics either (which they tried to do cos the centre of a black hole is a perfect point and QM is used to calculate the existence of atoms and the like) cos their tremendous mass means the answer they get is infinity multiplied by infinity, an infinite amount of times. An even bigger number!
But the best bit for me was the theory that the centre of our galaxy was a supermassive black hole. A scientist in germany theorised this and then spent 25 years plotting the stars at the centre of our galaxy and the point they rotated around. He found the closest 30 stars and plotted their orbits. Then he noticed their orbits were moving fast and tight around the centre point, indicating something that was undetectable, but had a massive gravitational pull. So the gravitational pull for the entire galaxy is centred round something so small it is undetectable, but is dense enough to keep the entire galaxy rotating around it. IIRC they estimated the weight needed to do that to be about 100 billion times the weight of the sun! The sun itself is 100 million times the weight of the earth, all that density in a area so small it is undetectable.
Amazing!
This sort of thing fascinates me, but I am too dense to make sense of it. The scientists were so smart, they were spouting off reams and reams of calculations and fomulae, from memory and none of them had any understanding of what they were dealing with. The only frustrating thing is it'll most likely never be solved before my lifetime is over. Most probably not before anyone else alive on the planet's lifetime is over too.
Argh!
astraboy.
Basically, it explained that despite being well known about, no-one on the planet has ever seen one, know what one is made of or can even can even prove they exist.
The problem is (without getting too red dwarf about it) they are too black! no-one can see one on a telescope, as they blend in too well.
Also, they can't be proven to exist because when the mathematicians try to calculate their existence, they answer they come up with is 'infinity' which cannot occur in mathematics. Basically einstein's theory of relativity (which copes perfectly well with everything else in the universe) falls over when it comes to black holes!
They can't use quantum mechanics either (which they tried to do cos the centre of a black hole is a perfect point and QM is used to calculate the existence of atoms and the like) cos their tremendous mass means the answer they get is infinity multiplied by infinity, an infinite amount of times. An even bigger number!
But the best bit for me was the theory that the centre of our galaxy was a supermassive black hole. A scientist in germany theorised this and then spent 25 years plotting the stars at the centre of our galaxy and the point they rotated around. He found the closest 30 stars and plotted their orbits. Then he noticed their orbits were moving fast and tight around the centre point, indicating something that was undetectable, but had a massive gravitational pull. So the gravitational pull for the entire galaxy is centred round something so small it is undetectable, but is dense enough to keep the entire galaxy rotating around it. IIRC they estimated the weight needed to do that to be about 100 billion times the weight of the sun! The sun itself is 100 million times the weight of the earth, all that density in a area so small it is undetectable.
Amazing!
This sort of thing fascinates me, but I am too dense to make sense of it. The scientists were so smart, they were spouting off reams and reams of calculations and fomulae, from memory and none of them had any understanding of what they were dealing with. The only frustrating thing is it'll most likely never be solved before my lifetime is over. Most probably not before anyone else alive on the planet's lifetime is over too.
Argh!
astraboy.
Plus of course many have been detected.
Maths and physics breakdown once you get beyond the event horizon. But black holes are a known and proven phenonema...or so I thought anyway
04 November 2009, 10:36 PM
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IIRC Einsteins theory didn't add up when it came to measuring the mass of the universe, so under pressure he wrongly changed his theory to compensate, but then it was later found that the black holes made up for the discrepancy in the calcs.
05 November 2009, 08:45 AM
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They also said that the conditions within the black are the same as those at the beginning of the universe...
Time/space/matter/energy >>>> black hole >>>> (another) universe's big bang
Mystery solved.
Time/space/matter/energy >>>> black hole >>>> (another) universe's big bang
Mystery solved.
05 November 2009, 08:53 PM
#15
I thought they could detect the black holes by measuring how 'bent' the light given off by stars behind them were?
I trust its on iplayer, will go and have a look now.
Does anyone else think there are very few 'space' type science doc on anymore? Quite a few years ago they were in abundence, Solar empire and the like. I've got the full documentry package on Sky too and theres hardly anything 'new' on these days
I trust its on iplayer, will go and have a look now.
Does anyone else think there are very few 'space' type science doc on anymore? Quite a few years ago they were in abundence, Solar empire and the like. I've got the full documentry package on Sky too and theres hardly anything 'new' on these days
They show this on the History channel and History Channel HD on sky, unfortunately they are running out of ideas now. 
05 November 2009, 10:15 PM
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I did watch it, but it was too slow paced for me. I get bored at the slowness of the presentation of a lot of these things. Its the sort of program that they could make interesting, but have it over with in under 30 mins. Then I could get on with something else....maybe I am just too impatient
So it looks like Horizon, one of my "childhood" favourite science programs, has gone all (Bo Selecta stylee) "calabritee". Bring back QED and Equinox
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