Martin2005

BBC NEWS | UK | UK Politics | Tories maintain referendum stance


Discuss

Deep Singh

I think there will be far more important stuff to discuss during the party conference next week. Like how my mate's David and George are going to try and salvage this country from the mess that Labour have created.

I think there will be policy announcements that will show the Tories to be forward and progressive thinkers, and put the final
nail in labours coffin.

You've seen the retarded and deluded at the labour conference, now prepare to see the leaders and statesmen next week.

boxst

I hope so, because if there conference is a shambles as well then we may as well go and live elsewhere.

Steve

warrenm2

The Irish referendum is the most important political vote in the last 17 years, the last major obstacle to the EU's enabling Act. Cameron is a lightweight. We are truely screwed. History books will write about this vote as the beginning of the end of freedom and democracy. I am now going to emigrate down under to spend the remains of my life in comparative freedom.

FlightMan

Deep there isn't much I disagree with you about on here, but if you think Dave and his crew of toff's are leaders and statesmen then I respectfully suggest you lay off the drugs.

This country is finished, and there isn't a " leader or statesmen " out there, on both sides, worthy of the name.

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Prize for the most deluded post of the year goes to Deep Singh.

I assume you are being funny or ironic as you really cannot be seriois.

Look at the **** up they made last time for a start and anyway tell me Cameron isn't just another Blair, he has even copied his hand movements when he talks. He and his party are, like the current incumbents, pathetic!

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Now finally we are in agreement about something. Already in hand here. See you down there

Deep Singh

Mate, my comments were a little tongue in cheek, partly to wind up 'red' Martin.

Although I don't think we should underestimate Dave, and being branded a 'toff' isn't really here or there. I do feel he will take the country in the right direction and it can only be an improvement over Labour. Wait to hear their policy announcements before you write them off, I think (and hope) you will hear a lot of common sense stuff that people like you and me will like.

Even despite this countrie's dire problems I'm not prepared to write it off, I'm a patriot and believe we can be better.

Leslie

Well we will see what Cameron's real policies are with respect to the Eu soon enough, or I certainly hope we do anyway.

I think the Eu constitution and whether we ratify it thus effectively handing this country over to another organisation is immensely important. If the Eu wins overall control then we will become just another part of an immense conglomeration of what used to be independent states and we shall have virtually no say in how we wish to conduct our lives. Any sign of real democracy will vanish and we will have to find more and more cash to give to the commissioners for their own use, not very impressive when you consider their sorry history with the auditors over the last 14 years! They have already stated that they want to know full financial details of pay and savings for all the Eu population. Why I wonder, and how much further will they go. Do they too use Orwells books as their bibles?

If Cameron is so foolish as to renege on his promise to give us our referendum, as in fact did this present load of supine plonkers, then he will show that he is not worth the candle and he will risk a defeat or at the very least a very much reduced majority at the next election. He had better show that his true colours can be trusted at their conference or he too will be for the high jump!

This country is in desperate need of a strong leader who has altruistic motives for the future of the people and is prepared to stand up for the country. That has not happened for a very long time now and we are suffering for it. If Cameron can't demonstrate that to our own satisfaction and get away from the suspicions of being a Billy Liar copycat, we are well and truly in the "cacky".

Les

Martin2005

I'm flattered that you feel the need to wind me up. No need though I've said several times now, I'm voting Tory at the next election.

As for the referendum we were promised it and should therefore have it. AS LONG IS IT IN ON THE CONSTITUTION and not just an attemp by the anti-euro brigade to get a proxy vote on EU membership

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

And do you think that is a possibility, given the UK population's now considerable hatred of the EC, thanks to successive government's policies of blaming everything on the EC?

The Zohan

BBC NEWS | UK | UK Politics | Cameron 'working for Euro vote'

I certianly hope Dave is!

Tory Euro MP Daniel Hannan has said David Cameron is "working privately to get a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty".

The Tory leader has said he does not want to prejudice debate in countries who have yet to ratify the Treaty.

However his office admitted Mr Cameron had written to president of one of those countries - Czech Republic - setting out his opinion on the Treaty.

A Yes vote on the Treaty in Ireland has ensured it has dominated the opening of the party's conference in Manchester.

It also re-ignited Tory opposition to former Prime Minister Tony Blair becoming the European Union's first president.

Martin2005

Simple answer to that is no, which is why all the mainstream party's seem to be ducking the issue

Adrian F

Neither the Torries or Lib's have a statesman in charge they are all media friendly light weights with no conviction in the policies they just say and do what gets votes not what we need.

And Gordon is just useless and has sold us out to the EU as Payment to his mate Tony for being hand the Prime Minsters job

we are screwed

Simon K

Can someone explain to me what the lisbon vote thing is all about ?? Also, can someone tell me why we, as a country, havent been asked to vote ? Is it another thing Labour has stopped in this `free` country of ours ?

God Im so tired of labour ! Whether Tories come in or not, Im even willing to vote for the Monster Looney party to get these idiots out.

SBK

TelBoy

Wikipedia explains it well, but it's a gruelling read. In very basic terms it means a step towards a United States of Europe, more centralised power. The reason that Ireland voted in favour this time is because their economy has gone to the dogs in just three years, and they see the Lisbon Treaty as their only chance at a lifeline. What it will mean in generations to come nobody really knows, it's just the here and now that people are focusing on. Personally i would oppose it, but then i'm a self-proclaimed Little Englander...

Treaty of Lisbon - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

We've not been asked to vote because Gordon Brown wasn't legally obliged to ask for our opinion. And in one sense he could rightly argue that the people wouldn't really understand the issues - many of them are very technical. But on such a fundamental decision for the country, most people think that there should be a referendum, and some effort to tell the people in simple terms how this will affect their lives (although i remember the Sun doing an idiot's guide about 2 years ago but it descended into how bendy a banana could be so i'm not sure whether Mr&Mrs Not Interested gained much from that).

Party, parties. Tory, Tories.

NotoriousREV

Given that our Government has already ratified it, it's a little late for us to have a referendum.

TelBoy

No it isn't. You've obviously never hired an expensive barrister....

Leslie

It was Flash who "ratified" it, all by himself, a day later than the other countries' leaders so that he thought we would not notice that he had done it!!!

He did this in spite of his party's promise of a referendum since it affects all the countries so deeply with effect to their future government and democracy-or lack of it!

In view of the enormous changes it means to our eventual style of government and our abilities of self determination and civil liberties, there is no posiible excuse for denying us a vote on whether to agree to the ratification of the Lisbon constitution.

Politicians are in the business of personal power and if they manage to con us to accept this constitution their own personal power over us will increase out of all recognition! Our votes eventually would stand for nothing.

Les

NotoriousREV

I don't disagree that we should have had a referendum, I'm just saying that our dear old Government has yet again sold us up the river.

IF we got a referendum, legally can we withdraw our ratification of the treaty? Would anyone put it past a "new" Government promising a referendum and then turning around and saying "oops, sorry nothing we can do"?

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

The press and the Tories selling us up the EU river eh? Who'd have thought

TelBoy

The simple answer is that it's not clear to anyone, because it's never been tried before. Labour are telling the Tories to put up and shut up, that ratification was final and absolute. But the Tories are claiming it is null and void without a referendum. It would be one for the lawyers to fight over.

NotoriousREV

So basically, they can promise something people want without ever having to fulfill it.

warrenm2

The treaty allows the EU to make self amendments to its treaties that cover its scope without having to go through IGCs ie it gets to set its own rules without having to ask the member states - effectively removing the last checks and balances on its power. It grants the EU tax raising powers for the first time. It creates the office of President and foreign minister who can enter into international agreements on behalf of the EU member states without our agreement. It removes more veto powers. Nuff said?

TelBoy

Yeah, pretty much like any political manifesto really

NotoriousREV

And so the world turns...

Leslie

Legal nothing Not Rev. Just do what any strong leader would do, stand up for this country, hold the referendum as we are fully entitled to do, and when the country says no, tell the Eu to get stuffed! Do you think they might declare war on us? They don't allow their soldiers to do anything dangerous such as in Afghanistan anyway!

What we need is a bit of the old Thatcher attitude towards them! Rather then give them back the rebate which she won for us!!!

Les

Nimbus

What I don't like is the way countries who voted "no" seem to keep arranging referendums until the local government gets the "yes" vote they wanted.