I have done a bit of Mig in the Past on brackets, frames and a bit of car bodywork but the one I usually borrow has gone missing from the in laws house, prime suspect is my brother in law but he says he doesnt know where its gone, bugger, I have bought an old Honda 400 bike for its engine and some plans to make a buggy so need a welder to do the frame, so its either spend what, about £300 on a basic MIG ? I noticed that stick/Arc welders can be had off Ebay for thirty or forty quid, so was wondering what the collective wisdom is for Arc welding, is it ok for welding tube together, I know it isnt as clean but it will get ground clean and painted anyway.

 

Stick arc welding is a skill, if you haven't done it before, don't expect to make a decent job first, or even second, time.

My eldest is a welder/plater, used to work on the local steelworks, now works in Holland, (quite why THEY have the jobs Britain doesn't, I don't know), and is a pipe welder, using mainly stick now. He still reckons he's a lot to learn, after 8 months on that job, 4 years training and 18 months on the works BEFORE going to Holland.

 

As TT says, if you're a just a DIY kind of welder, stick to the MIG. Without some decent training you will end up doing a fair amount of damage to either yourself or, more importantly, your job with a stick set

Unless you are really, really good, you'll just turn the sort of thin wall stuff you'll be using into a pile of molten snot on your garage floor

MIG welders were originally developed to take the skill out of welding, thus enable employers to take on more semi-skilled workers and reduce costs

 

Sort out all your jobs, make your bracketry, clean and prep, then rent a decent Mig for the day......get it all done and send it back.

Mig rental can be as little as £25 for the day/weekend.

 

Is it more dangerous than Mig then ? dont like the sound of that being averse to any kind of pain.

 

The easiest method to learn is MIG, MMA as mentioned needs a bit more skill but the fundamentals of non automated welding techniques are similar whichever method is employed. 1, Arc length you need to keep the end of the electrode a uniform distance from the parent metal/joint. 2, electrode angle around 70 degrees from horizontal. 3, speed of travel practice on a bit of scrap and you will be able to find it.
MIG is better for thinner steel, distortion from heat input is the main problem when making a frame. you may need to tack pieces down or tack a crossmember onto your work to restrain it and prevent it turning into a banana. you can reduce distortion also by only welding small 10 to 20 mm lengths at a time. Thus limiting the amount of heat going into your work.
This may sound silly but there is a book on welding in halfords which is quite informative i have also seen it advertised in Banzai and Jap performance car mag. its worth buying.
The frame of your buggy needs mostly to be symmetrical, welding will want to distort it that is the main problem when building frames.

 

When I got into building my race car chassis, I taught myself how to gas weld with Nickel Bronze welding wire. It was not difficult and very satisfying and it was done at a lower temperature so it did not weaken the mild steel tubing that I used. Never had any cracks etc in any of the three chassis except for engine mountings which I cured with better design from my original attempt.

As long as I made sure that each of the tubes were touching without a gap as I welded them I never had any distortion.

Les

 

Trying to track down the existing Mig, will buy one if I need to as I really enjoy it and with the Fiat I expect I will need one next year again come MOT time, renting one is a good idea but kind of means you cant do it at your leisure and end up rushing and making a ***** of it, I think the one I used before is a Clarke 150 TE, seemed pretty good and I did some fairly passable looking welding with that so if I cant get hold of it, will buy one of them, its coming up to my birthday so some added justification, paid a mate 160 quid to do the welding on the Fiat with me assisting so a couple of good sessions, even at mates rates it pays for itself.

I am rapidly loosing interest in doing Arc welding based on your advice !

 

as Les says above-nickel bronze welding or brazing should be more than strong enough for the job you have in mind-much easier too.
just make certain all gaps are minimal and square to each other(if that makes sense) and very very clean.
cheers richie

 

Brazing is a dying art, isnt it?

 

Hi mate where abouts are you? i can do the welding for you or i can instruct you if you wont i am a timed served fabricator/welder. i am based in huddersfield if that helps.

 

I have been stick welding for about 2 years, mainly the car wash rollers after some knobber in a 4x4 has put the brakes on and snapped the roller off.

I can make them stick pretty well, its not very pretty to look at, but i can make them stick back on

The first one i did, lasted 5 mins before it fell back off, i thought it looked mint until i used the hammer to break off the coating

It is not very often that i have to use the machine now (although i do have a bracket to weld on the shutter door later one today!) i would not say i have mastered the skill at all to be honest lol!

My ARC stick welder cost me about 40quid from B&Q but this was a few years back, its ideal for what i need it for, don't think i would be brave enough to attack a car with it, although i did fix a minimoto frame with it once

 

With Nickel Bronze you do build up a weld rather than brazing which is as strong as the mild steel providing that you don't overheat it. You have to be a bit careless to do that though.

Another tip is that it is very much easier to build with square section tubing rather than round. It was very good for the car chassis. Square tubing has more resistance to bending and round is stiffer as far as twisting is concerned. A well triangulated frame in square tubing is extremely strong.

Les

 

Just in case anyone is interested around the crawley area, they've still got some spaces left on this course at Central Sussex College Central Sussex College | Courses | Certificate in Introductory Welding - Level 1

I'm gonna do that one myself this year - finally