RACIST?
09 March 2002, 02:19 AM
#3
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OMG here we go again 
If u have access to a copy of the Consise Oxford Dictionary
you could have answered this question yourself.
As with most words it is context dependant.
I missed the initial post (was edited by the time i got to it). However the dictionary has three meanings for the word "*****".
Without a capital letter it is in reference to a sound or small gap.
Please correct me if I am wrong, but I take it that from the very
fact u raised this question that you are one of the influx of PC peebs to the board?
Pete
If u have access to a copy of the Consise Oxford Dictionary
you could have answered this question yourself.
As with most words it is context dependant.
I missed the initial post (was edited by the time i got to it). However the dictionary has three meanings for the word "*****".
Without a capital letter it is in reference to a sound or small gap.
Please correct me if I am wrong, but I take it that from the very
fact u raised this question that you are one of the influx of PC peebs to the board?
Pete
09 March 2002, 09:17 AM
#4
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Offensive
[rant mod on}
What I find offensive is the continued us of this board incorrectly
THIS SHOULD BE IN "NON SCOOBY RELATED" have a PC debate there and leave us enthusiasts to what we enjoy
[/rant mod off]
Phil
{REPORTED TO THE MODERATOR BUTTON JUST PRESSED}
[rant mod on}
What I find offensive is the continued us of this board incorrectly
THIS SHOULD BE IN "NON SCOOBY RELATED" have a PC debate there and leave us enthusiasts to what we enjoy
[/rant mod off]
Phil
{REPORTED TO THE MODERATOR BUTTON JUST PRESSED}
09 March 2002, 12:15 PM
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Nice 1 Phil,
Couldn`t agree more with u re
. In the event that this was posted in the "correct" forum that is where they would have received the above answer. IMHO something seriously needs done to keep stupidity / baiting such as this from repeatedly raising its head.
L8r
Pete
Couldn`t agree more with u re
continued us of this board incorrectly
L8r
Pete
10 March 2002, 06:36 PM
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I don't consider "Chinky" to be offensive, I certainly don't mean to cause agro by going to the "chinky", it's just a different word, Subarunet doesn't have the same ring does it?
In the same light I don't take Paki as offensive, just short for and easier to say than Pakistani.
I suppose you really need to consider just how it's being said, like so much else it would be easier to judge the sentiments behind it face to face rather than in text
All IMHO of course
Bob
In the same light I don't take Paki as offensive, just short for and easier to say than Pakistani.
I suppose you really need to consider just how it's being said, like so much else it would be easier to judge the sentiments behind it face to face rather than in text
All IMHO of course
Bob
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10 March 2002, 10:04 PM
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saw the thread before was edit by mod
the word used was chinky not *****
a ***** could mean a chinese person and could be a racist comment
but chinky refers to chinese food to take away
so how the f#ck can calling food by a slang word be racist
my chinese take away dont give a **** about this when i ask them
those what complained about this want a good slapping [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]
the word used was chinky not *****
a ***** could mean a chinese person and could be a racist comment
but chinky refers to chinese food to take away
so how the f#ck can calling food by a slang word be racist
my chinese take away dont give a **** about this when i ask them
those what complained about this want a good slapping [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]
10 March 2002, 11:27 PM
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Following on from comments made by Big Mouth on the other thread, and some of the comments here:
I find the words '*****' and 'Chinky' offensive, whether it's refered to food or a person! Sorry but I do! I like to think I don't have a chip on my shoulder about being Chinese, but these words are used to cause offense!
Do Asians, whenever they are from get offended when refered to as a 'Paki'?? I think they would! Are you saying that if refer to your local shop as a 'Paki shop' it's not offensive as it's a building rather than a person, then I think you are wrong as well!
I have Jewish friends, who would find a number of terms offensive, but let's not go there.
Monkey noises and throwing bananas at black football players for a 'laugh'. Where do we draw the line??
Examples can go on and on, but I'll stop here.
Political correctness gone mad?? Or are we just talking about common courtesy and good manners??
I have suffered a lot of verbal abuse in my life for being Chinese, something I don't want sympathy for, or do I expect you to understand. Sorry if this sounds like a lecture, it's not to be, just thoughts I've been keeping quiet. If we put a little thought into what we say or type, would this have arisen? whether it was meant to be racist or not??
As Bruce Lee said "We are all human beings"
I find the words '*****' and 'Chinky' offensive, whether it's refered to food or a person! Sorry but I do! I like to think I don't have a chip on my shoulder about being Chinese, but these words are used to cause offense!
Do Asians, whenever they are from get offended when refered to as a 'Paki'?? I think they would! Are you saying that if refer to your local shop as a 'Paki shop' it's not offensive as it's a building rather than a person, then I think you are wrong as well!
I have Jewish friends, who would find a number of terms offensive, but let's not go there.
Monkey noises and throwing bananas at black football players for a 'laugh'. Where do we draw the line??
Examples can go on and on, but I'll stop here.
Political correctness gone mad?? Or are we just talking about common courtesy and good manners??
I have suffered a lot of verbal abuse in my life for being Chinese, something I don't want sympathy for, or do I expect you to understand. Sorry if this sounds like a lecture, it's not to be, just thoughts I've been keeping quiet. If we put a little thought into what we say or type, would this have arisen? whether it was meant to be racist or not??
As Bruce Lee said "We are all human beings"
11 March 2002, 01:05 AM
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OK folks, some good points raised and personal opinions.
I`m going to throw something into the ring that most of us do
on a regular basis and most of the time we`re not even aware that we are doing it.
Truncation, it`s used on a regular basis in most regional variants of the English language to some extent.
Why use two words when one will do ?
Despite this debate going on I must admit tonight I asked the better half to phone for a "c****y`s" and not a "chinese take-away"
Why did I do this ? Well I do like the food.
Now If anyone who uses this term is racist, then I`d imagine they wouldn`t buy a Chinese take-away would they??
Likewise if they were anti Asian they wouldn`t use the previously refered to shops. etc etc etc no?
The very fact that this thread exists just shows that yes PC has gone mad, granted I can see both sides of the discussion here,
but personal crusades such as this only cause problems.
WW, how would you take it if I wandered into your establishment and told you that you didn`t know how to fry rice? I`ll bet u would welcome my critisism (not).
Change takes time guys, accept that and everyone will get along just dandy. IMHO if you keep shouting racist at the slightest thing then you`ll become "the boy who cried wolf"
BTW call me a Jock all you like, it doesn`t put me up nor down.
Why? Because I live in the real world and can live with other folks ignorance. How does the saying go "sticks and stones...."
Pete
I`m going to throw something into the ring that most of us do
on a regular basis and most of the time we`re not even aware that we are doing it.
Truncation, it`s used on a regular basis in most regional variants of the English language to some extent.
Why use two words when one will do ?
Despite this debate going on I must admit tonight I asked the better half to phone for a "c****y`s" and not a "chinese take-away"
Why did I do this ? Well I do like the food.Now If anyone who uses this term is racist, then I`d imagine they wouldn`t buy a Chinese take-away would they??
Likewise if they were anti Asian they wouldn`t use the previously refered to shops. etc etc etc no?
The very fact that this thread exists just shows that yes PC has gone mad, granted I can see both sides of the discussion here,
but personal crusades such as this only cause problems.
WW, how would you take it if I wandered into your establishment and told you that you didn`t know how to fry rice? I`ll bet u would welcome my critisism (not).
Change takes time guys, accept that and everyone will get along just dandy. IMHO if you keep shouting racist at the slightest thing then you`ll become "the boy who cried wolf"
BTW call me a Jock all you like, it doesn`t put me up nor down.
Why? Because I live in the real world and can live with other folks ignorance. How does the saying go "sticks and stones...."
Pete
11 March 2002, 01:26 AM
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If going for a 'Chinky' is ok, because it's about food/takeaway/etc, is going to the 'Paki shop' ok, as it's only refering to the establishment and not the people count??
Surely 'Paki' is offensive, whichever context it is used in?? So why not 'Chinky'??? Is calling black people '*******' or 'coons' ok?? I don't think so!
If by 'Getting with the times' [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img] you mean by perpetuating racism, then no I won't! I think this is getting blown out of proportion, but I'm merely expressing my view!
Appreciate that it is slang for a lot of people (white majority), but surely that doesn't mean it's ok?? When working in my dad's resturant (perpetuating the stereotype!!) you would probably be surprised with the amount of abuse we had to endure after the pubs closed! And that was in a small 'white middle class' town in Surrey!
You talk about 'sticks and stones..' but when the verbal abuse is associated with threats of physical violence, why do you think I'm put out when people use those terms here?? Yes I've dealt with it most of my life, through what ever means were required, but in this enlightened world we live in now, should I still have to fear for my (and my girlfriends) safety when this sort of abuse starts in 'the real world'?
Surely 'Paki' is offensive, whichever context it is used in?? So why not 'Chinky'??? Is calling black people '*******' or 'coons' ok?? I don't think so!
If by 'Getting with the times' [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img] you mean by perpetuating racism, then no I won't! I think this is getting blown out of proportion, but I'm merely expressing my view!
Appreciate that it is slang for a lot of people (white majority), but surely that doesn't mean it's ok?? When working in my dad's resturant (perpetuating the stereotype!!
) you would probably be surprised with the amount of abuse we had to endure after the pubs closed! And that was in a small 'white middle class' town in Surrey!You talk about 'sticks and stones..' but when the verbal abuse is associated with threats of physical violence, why do you think I'm put out when people use those terms here?? Yes I've dealt with it most of my life, through what ever means were required, but in this enlightened world we live in now, should I still have to fear for my (and my girlfriends) safety when this sort of abuse starts in 'the real world'?
11 March 2002, 01:29 AM
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Pete, I guess we have to agree to disagree!
To be honest, I've had comments mailed to me from other Chinese people (who use this board) who agree with my comments. Difficult to appreciate unless you have been on the receiving end of this sort of abuse.
To be honest, I've had comments mailed to me from other Chinese people (who use this board) who agree with my comments. Difficult to appreciate unless you have been on the receiving end of this sort of abuse.
11 March 2002, 01:40 AM
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Andy,
Yeah I can see what u r saying m8 & u r prob right that the majority of us have no idea what it`s like. So yeah i`m with u on this one.
And maybe we can get back to the reason we`re all here motas with no ill feeling eh
L8r bud
Pete
Yeah I can see what u r saying m8 & u r prob right that the majority of us have no idea what it`s like. So yeah i`m with u on this one.
Pete, I guess we have to agree to disagree!
L8r bud
Pete
11 March 2002, 03:39 AM
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i was born in london but moved to a village/town 7 years ago,
in the first year i took **** from kids when i walk up streets calling me chinky, i ignored them (yo, i'm cool, those uneducated ****holes)
so calling me CHINKY , is that referring me as FOOD or me as a ?!?!?!.
they mentioned theres nothing good about them but they loved our food.
call me old fashioned or what, i don't like it if people refer me as a ***** or chinky,
ditto to all other races (ie asians,)i believe
its not for the instigator to decide whether the term is racist, it is to whom the slur is addressed who should decide.
ANDY good points all the way!!!!!!!
in the first year i took **** from kids when i walk up streets calling me chinky, i ignored them (yo, i'm cool, those uneducated ****holes)
so calling me CHINKY , is that referring me as FOOD or me as a ?!?!?!.
they mentioned theres nothing good about them but they loved our food.
call me old fashioned or what, i don't like it if people refer me as a ***** or chinky,
ditto to all other races (ie asians,)i believe
its not for the instigator to decide whether the term is racist, it is to whom the slur is addressed who should decide.
ANDY good points all the way!!!!!!!
11 March 2002, 10:12 AM
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In the same light I don't take Paki as offensive, just short for and easier to say than Pakistani.
BOB.T.
Bob, you want to go up to a Pakistani lad and call him that and see if he finds it racist !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
RAZZ.
BOB.T.
Bob, you want to go up to a Pakistani lad and call him that and see if he finds it racist !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
RAZZ.
11 March 2002, 10:17 AM
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went to court last month because my mates who were chinese and korean ended up in a fight with a bloke who was pissed and all. The mouthy little bugger has now been sent to prison and knows who we are!!!!!....wait till he gets out
11 March 2002, 10:51 AM
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being a white middle class person....
only in my foolish youth have I ever said things like 'Chinky' etc... and I regret alot of things I said while I was younger as only now do I appreciate how hurtfull they are all I can do now is make sure I dont do it anymore.
I can't belive ppl think that its ok to say '*****'?! I think the main problem is 50% of the time I side against the "PC" croud.. i.e. I still like to hold doors open for women etc... however thats nothing todo with PC surely...
only in my foolish youth have I ever said things like 'Chinky' etc... and I regret alot of things I said while I was younger as only now do I appreciate how hurtfull they are all I can do now is make sure I dont do it anymore.
I can't belive ppl think that its ok to say '*****'?! I think the main problem is 50% of the time I side against the "PC" croud.. i.e. I still like to hold doors open for women etc... however thats nothing todo with PC surely...
11 March 2002, 11:23 AM
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I think it is she ignorance on the part of certain people in society to use such terminalogies as Paki and *****.
For a start Paki is short for Pakistan. I am Indian, but because I have brown skin, I am immediately labelled a Paki.
All I can say is you stupid, ignorant MF'S!!
For a start Paki is short for Pakistan. I am Indian, but because I have brown skin, I am immediately labelled a Paki.
All I can say is you stupid, ignorant MF'S!!
11 March 2002, 11:54 AM
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Dear oh dear go out and get a life for chrissakes. I can't believe I read this thread the whole way through.
It is this kind of political correctness that has got the UK in the state it is in over race, education, crime, human rights, the list is endless.
For what it is worth ***** is defined as a derogatory word for Chinese people.
However much certain people might take offence when 99% of people phone up to order "a Chinky" they are NOT using it to cause offence, they are using it because it is a COLLOQUIAL for Chinese Take Away.
Now if a person goes up to someone and call him a *****, Paki or any other term discussed in the thread relevant to the PERCEIVED ethnic origin THAT IS racist and offensive, and the intention when saying it is almost certainly to offend.
BIG DIFFERENCE
Oh and by the way I notice Jock doesn't get offended when he is referred to as a Jock, much as I don't get offended when referred to as a Saaaaafender, Essex Boy, four eyed git etc etc.
To end on a lighter note because reading this gave me the steaming hump would I be right Jock in saying you might take offence to the term "Sweaty" or not ?
It is this kind of political correctness that has got the UK in the state it is in over race, education, crime, human rights, the list is endless.
For what it is worth ***** is defined as a derogatory word for Chinese people.
However much certain people might take offence when 99% of people phone up to order "a Chinky" they are NOT using it to cause offence, they are using it because it is a COLLOQUIAL for Chinese Take Away.
Now if a person goes up to someone and call him a *****, Paki or any other term discussed in the thread relevant to the PERCEIVED ethnic origin THAT IS racist and offensive, and the intention when saying it is almost certainly to offend.
BIG DIFFERENCE
Oh and by the way I notice Jock doesn't get offended when he is referred to as a Jock, much as I don't get offended when referred to as a Saaaaafender, Essex Boy, four eyed git etc etc.
To end on a lighter note because reading this gave me the steaming hump would I be right Jock in saying you might take offence to the term "Sweaty" or not ?
11 March 2002, 12:03 PM
#23
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EBRWRX,
This isn't about what the people 'phoning for their take-away meant when they used the term. It's about how the person on the other/receiving end takes it. That's what racism, sexual discrimination is all about. You/countless others might mean well but how do you know how others feel?
There are lots of terms/phrases that people use in all innocence, some of which have had an airing in this thread, many of which haven't, which would fall into the same category. Not using them is not (IMHO) a sign of political correctness gone mad, more an appreciation/respect for how others hearing/reading those sorts of things might react.
This isn't about what the people 'phoning for their take-away meant when they used the term. It's about how the person on the other/receiving end takes it. That's what racism, sexual discrimination is all about. You/countless others might mean well but how do you know how others feel?
There are lots of terms/phrases that people use in all innocence, some of which have had an airing in this thread, many of which haven't, which would fall into the same category. Not using them is not (IMHO) a sign of political correctness gone mad, more an appreciation/respect for how others hearing/reading those sorts of things might react.
11 March 2002, 12:26 PM
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Andy,
you said "I'm happy for women to be equal and encourage it!"
It's people like you who made the world what's it has become today!
2000 years of civilisation and people like you gave women the right to vote in the early fifties (late fourties?)!!
No wonder we have speed limits, too.
you said "I'm happy for women to be equal and encourage it!"
It's people like you who made the world what's it has become today!
2000 years of civilisation and people like you gave women the right to vote in the early fifties (late fourties?)!!
No wonder we have speed limits, too.
11 March 2002, 02:14 PM
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Seejay - This is such a tricky issue so I'm not going to dress it up in any way, I'm just going to express my personal opinion.
I think we're making virtually the same point in different ways - what I'm saying is that to say to your mates that you ate a chinky last night is completely different from going up to someone who (say) looks oriental and calling him a *****/chinky etc.
When I phone up my local I don't ask for a Chinky I ask to order a meal.
The point I'm trying to make is a hard distinction to grasp for some, but political correctness is stretched way too far (IMHO) and is not limited to racial issues.
I would use the term chinky to describe what I ate last night for Chinese in the same way I would use the term ring-burner for a hot curry, "bird" instead of girl/female/lady (possibly sexist) and I could provide a long list of words that I use that some may take offence to where none is intended.
If I say something to somebody that they take offence to (again this is not limited to perceived racist comments) then if they point it out to me I'm not going to say it in front of them again, but I'm not going to stop using those terms.
What I would say is that before complaining to anyone about their choice of language there is a vast difference between intent and perception, so I would take offence to someone accusing me of being racist, but no offence to anyone saying to me the term upsets them.
The Irish and Scottish (in particular) have a lot of words that they use to describe Englishmen, none of which I find offensive.
It's a sensitive issue that's really hard to put in words, but please make the distinction between racist or otherwise.
I think we're making virtually the same point in different ways - what I'm saying is that to say to your mates that you ate a chinky last night is completely different from going up to someone who (say) looks oriental and calling him a *****/chinky etc.
When I phone up my local I don't ask for a Chinky I ask to order a meal.
The point I'm trying to make is a hard distinction to grasp for some, but political correctness is stretched way too far (IMHO) and is not limited to racial issues.
I would use the term chinky to describe what I ate last night for Chinese in the same way I would use the term ring-burner for a hot curry, "bird" instead of girl/female/lady (possibly sexist) and I could provide a long list of words that I use that some may take offence to where none is intended.
If I say something to somebody that they take offence to (again this is not limited to perceived racist comments) then if they point it out to me I'm not going to say it in front of them again, but I'm not going to stop using those terms.
What I would say is that before complaining to anyone about their choice of language there is a vast difference between intent and perception, so I would take offence to someone accusing me of being racist, but no offence to anyone saying to me the term upsets them.
The Irish and Scottish (in particular) have a lot of words that they use to describe Englishmen, none of which I find offensive.
It's a sensitive issue that's really hard to put in words, but please make the distinction between racist or otherwise.
11 March 2002, 03:06 PM
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I am japanese though i dont get a lot of abuse, either i dont give a **** or i will use martial arts on them, all depending on the circumstances. All this PC you are getting originated in America, NewYork & Los Angeles. It is an Americanism, suprised everyone isnt sueing each other. Just dont go there. Be european not american
11 March 2002, 03:22 PM
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Luke,
Not if said Mexican finds it offensive.
As I've said above, its about offence as much as anything.
EBRWRX, as you say, in your own time you can do and say as you wish. If you are happy to be called a ***ker and take no offence then thats fine with me. If you are not, then you have as much right as anyone to complain about that.
Moderation is always a difficult call and a happy balance has to be found without getting excessively politically correct.
In any event, the use of, amongst others, Chinky to refer to food or Paki to refer to shop is not a matter of political correctness, its a matter of offence.
D
Not if said Mexican finds it offensive.
As I've said above, its about offence as much as anything.
EBRWRX, as you say, in your own time you can do and say as you wish. If you are happy to be called a ***ker and take no offence then thats fine with me. If you are not, then you have as much right as anyone to complain about that.
Moderation is always a difficult call and a happy balance has to be found without getting excessively politically correct.
In any event, the use of, amongst others, Chinky to refer to food or Paki to refer to shop is not a matter of political correctness, its a matter of offence.
D
11 March 2002, 03:37 PM
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I am wholeheartedly with Diablo on this one. I agree that the terms mentioned are offensive and terms i would not use, regardless of whether its to describe a shop, food or person.
At the end of the day if you want to air your own opinion on a web site/BBS where complaints could arise, then be prepared for that web site/BBS to have the facility to moderate what you are saying to keep things running smoothly and avoid complaints to them and possible legal action (yes it could happen).
Basically guys, we are sh1tting in SDBs back yard here, and lets not expect him to shovel it up.
Dave
At the end of the day if you want to air your own opinion on a web site/BBS where complaints could arise, then be prepared for that web site/BBS to have the facility to moderate what you are saying to keep things running smoothly and avoid complaints to them and possible legal action (yes it could happen).
Basically guys, we are sh1tting in SDBs back yard here, and lets not expect him to shovel it up.
Dave
11 March 2002, 05:34 PM
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Diablo,
One thing is clear, as per your earlier post. The use of such terms (other than for discussion in this thread) are viewed as wholly inappropriate by Scoobynet and some of its members.
As pointed out in my responses I'll fully respect those wishes. I'm not racist (intentionally) and I'll respect everyone elses views on the subject if they'll respect mine.
I'm also very glad to see that, in general, the thread hasn't degenerated.
One thing is sure, we are all united in our love of Scoobies !!!!
One thing is clear, as per your earlier post. The use of such terms (other than for discussion in this thread) are viewed as wholly inappropriate by Scoobynet and some of its members.
As pointed out in my responses I'll fully respect those wishes. I'm not racist (intentionally) and I'll respect everyone elses views on the subject if they'll respect mine.
I'm also very glad to see that, in general, the thread hasn't degenerated.
One thing is sure, we are all united in our love of Scoobies !!!!
11 March 2002, 07:01 PM
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lol i am a jap cos i am erm japanese 
i feel that people of a different culture finds these words offensive cos they feel uncomfortable about hearing them. I find if you are yourself one of a particular minority then its ok to call yourself & others of the same group that too (erm feel free to insult my english )
The main too ethnic groups this refers to are Blacks & asians. Even those two words could be regarded as racist, well we call you blacks cos you are & unfortunately we're all very ignorant & cant distinguish between African(many many different backgrounds) & say caribean(sp) you invariable hear one "******" calling another "******" - this is acceptable? this is generally much less insulting than being said from a white guy.
I have noticed most countries have a multicultural society & can deal with it relatively ok, the UK is new to all this & to PC & have yet to come to grips with it & they increasing ethnic population. When i have been over, i have seen the BBC say "parkystan" to sound less racist, wtf?? & that latest "comedy" program to cover ethnic issues which they fail appaullingly.
Personally I think the UK should stick to what they know best. HUMOUR. Wheres all the "carry on" behaviour gone?
It is definately the end of the world when the Brits loose their sense of humour!!!
i feel that people of a different culture finds these words offensive cos they feel uncomfortable about hearing them. I find if you are yourself one of a particular minority then its ok to call yourself & others of the same group that too (erm feel free to insult my english
) The main too ethnic groups this refers to are Blacks & asians. Even those two words could be regarded as racist, well we call you blacks cos you are & unfortunately we're all very ignorant & cant distinguish between African(many many different backgrounds) & say caribean(sp) you invariable hear one "******" calling another "******" - this is acceptable? this is generally much less insulting than being said from a white guy.
I have noticed most countries have a multicultural society & can deal with it relatively ok, the UK is new to all this & to PC & have yet to come to grips with it & they increasing ethnic population. When i have been over, i have seen the BBC say "parkystan" to sound less racist, wtf?? & that latest "comedy" program to cover ethnic issues which they fail appaullingly.
Personally I think the UK should stick to what they know best. HUMOUR. Wheres all the "carry on" behaviour gone?
It is definately the end of the world when the Brits loose their sense of humour!!!