Following on from the G20... Excessive or justified?
15 June 2009, 08:06 PM
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Following on from the G20... Excessive or justified?
Nottingham Police Use Taser Gun Three Times To Arrest Man After City Centre Incident | UK News | Sky News
Looks like a normal kind of arrest with someone putting up a fight.
Always seems to be dramatised a little too much.
Others may disagree.
Looks like a normal kind of arrest with someone putting up a fight.
Always seems to be dramatised a little too much.
Others may disagree.
15 June 2009, 08:15 PM
#2
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Break the law - get punished.
I've no doubt that when someone gets taser'd and then later the same day keels over with a heart attack, tasers will be outlawed and the copper in question will get suspended.
If its caught on video I look forward to the week long half-asred debate on the subject.
I've no doubt that when someone gets taser'd and then later the same day keels over with a heart attack, tasers will be outlawed and the copper in question will get suspended.
If its caught on video I look forward to the week long half-asred debate on the subject.
15 June 2009, 08:20 PM
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Yeah - it's on video alright.
bloke on the ground being held down by 3 coppers while another one lamps him in the head several times.
No cause for concern there then !
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/n...re/8101763.stm
bloke on the ground being held down by 3 coppers while another one lamps him in the head several times.
No cause for concern there then !
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/n...re/8101763.stm
Last edited by jasey; 15 June 2009 at 08:22 PM.
15 June 2009, 08:41 PM
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Sadly the footage does not show what he was doing until the point of arrest.
Im sure they would not be daft enough to beat someone up in public view, there are vans and cells for that lol.
As for the punching of arms shoulders and legs, im pretty sure the cops on here will agree, it might not look very reasonable, but its something that gets done a fair bit with non compliant suspects.
15 June 2009, 08:44 PM
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It's a shame rota 2 weren't on duty, you should see Keith at Central (just round the corner from where this video take place) - he's a 20 stone Ninja who just picks people up
He's a living legend. It's been known for him to clear pub fights of up to 30 people and all the other cops have to do is pass him more handcuffs when he asks for them
I don't recognise these officers, but I've been asking around.
He's a living legend. It's been known for him to clear pub fights of up to 30 people and all the other cops have to do is pass him more handcuffs when he asks for them
I don't recognise these officers, but I've been asking around.
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15 June 2009, 08:48 PM
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Well - he was probably up to no good - but it looked to me like they pretty much had him under control.
Brave coppers though - the assembled mob could have turned - 4 against 25 odd could have been interesting
Brave coppers though - the assembled mob could have turned - 4 against 25 odd could have been interesting
15 June 2009, 08:51 PM
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Indeed, could have got messy with that lot about.
lol @ the Ninja
As for under control, he was being held, but refusing to be cuffed, therefore not officially under control.
lol @ the Ninja
As for under control, he was being held, but refusing to be cuffed, therefore not officially under control.
15 June 2009, 10:02 PM
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I'll see what I can find out when I go in tomorrow. My mate's dad is an Inspector at Central so that should probably be a good source of info.
Obviously I can't tell you anything that's not for the public-eye.
Obviously I can't tell you anything that's not for the public-eye.
15 June 2009, 10:24 PM
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They'd tazer'd the poor sod, then went in with fists.
It may be an approved method, but surely the tazer would have incapacitated him.
i though the one standing was going to strong arm the girl who came over to see what was going on.
Mart
It may be an approved method, but surely the tazer would have incapacitated him.
i though the one standing was going to strong arm the girl who came over to see what was going on.
Mart
15 June 2009, 10:50 PM
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Quote from the Sky News report:
Perhaps that puts a different light on the matter
(I think that refers to the bloke on the ground, not the one's in uniform
)
A 40-year-old man was arrested on suspicion of grievous bodily harm and was released on police bail.
(I think that refers to the bloke on the ground, not the one's in uniform
)
15 June 2009, 11:34 PM
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16 June 2009, 12:10 AM
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Mart, once the tazer is stopped the person regains use of their limbs pretty quickly. Some people it will knacker them out so they have no fight left, others just tense back up again, just as he was doing.
In a lot of tazer incidents, they are hit with more than one shot.
Watch closely, even after the punches to the shoulder/ arm, they STILL can't get his arm behind him.
I think the fact the cop did NOT smack the woman back, showed they were aware of the force being used, and were in control.
Media hype of this could cost cops their jobs. I'm pretty sure a tazer would not have been used without justification.
In a lot of tazer incidents, they are hit with more than one shot.
Watch closely, even after the punches to the shoulder/ arm, they STILL can't get his arm behind him.
I think the fact the cop did NOT smack the woman back, showed they were aware of the force being used, and were in control.
Media hype of this could cost cops their jobs. I'm pretty sure a tazer would not have been used without justification.
16 June 2009, 07:23 AM
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16 June 2009, 09:17 AM
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I can see how it looks bad, but fighting like this is always down and dirty.
The guy on the floor looks fairly calm and not that violent but he was resisting and it seemed like he was fairly strong too so would carry on resisting, but the officers were trying to make an arrest for an assault (according to BBC) and as such there was no way they could let this chap go, the cuffs HAD to go on.
So what do we do, set a stop watch going and say ok, we let you resist for 60 seconds and then we up the level of force... or should that be 120 seconds.... or 10 mins...??
I cant see anything in the clip that is out of the ordinary for someone resisting arrest and they seem aware of their surroundings and seem to follow correct procedure from what I can see.
I would assume that the officer used taser instead of CS because of the number of other poeple (officers and pubic) who were stood around. Which is the right thing to do IMHO and saves anyone else getting hurt other than the idiot on the floor.
The guy on the floor looks fairly calm and not that violent but he was resisting and it seemed like he was fairly strong too so would carry on resisting, but the officers were trying to make an arrest for an assault (according to BBC) and as such there was no way they could let this chap go, the cuffs HAD to go on.
So what do we do, set a stop watch going and say ok, we let you resist for 60 seconds and then we up the level of force... or should that be 120 seconds.... or 10 mins...??
I cant see anything in the clip that is out of the ordinary for someone resisting arrest and they seem aware of their surroundings and seem to follow correct procedure from what I can see.
I would assume that the officer used taser instead of CS because of the number of other poeple (officers and pubic) who were stood around. Which is the right thing to do IMHO and saves anyone else getting hurt other than the idiot on the floor.
16 June 2009, 10:32 AM
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16 June 2009, 10:53 AM
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Exactly, a bunch of bully victims dishing out what happened to them at school!
There was no need for the ****** coppers to tw@ him in the head and body once he had been tazered, in fact i would question the use of the tazer at all!
Basically its 4 coppers beating up on a pisshead, then using a ******* tazer on him, then carry on beating him, then tazer him again!
Bunch of *******, if i was that guy i would want numbers of involved coppers, i would try to **** their careers up, then find out where they live and **** them up too!
And as for this "20 stone ninja" he would get fcuked up in our pub, i know 21 year olds that are 20 stone, but have the fighting mentality to back it up!
Why are all coppers pussies when they are on their own, but as soon as the radio'd back up arrives they turn into hard men and start digging people!
All street coppers are total *****!
16 June 2009, 11:07 AM
#21
What do people want?
We only see part of this incident in this clip, so don't know what really led up to this. Anyhow, he was suspected of assaulting someone (don't know how seriously), and if that is the case, they have a job to do, what do you want them to do when he is resisting arrest? Say ok, we can't get the cuffs on, and you won't come willingly, get yourself away then? Plus even in the clip, you can see him kick out at them, what's to say he hadn't already done that or worse to them before the footage we see.
On here, it seems coppers can't do right. They act with any force, and they are bullies or scum, they don't act when people want them to, and they are scum.
We only see part of this incident in this clip, so don't know what really led up to this. Anyhow, he was suspected of assaulting someone (don't know how seriously), and if that is the case, they have a job to do, what do you want them to do when he is resisting arrest? Say ok, we can't get the cuffs on, and you won't come willingly, get yourself away then? Plus even in the clip, you can see him kick out at them, what's to say he hadn't already done that or worse to them before the footage we see.
On here, it seems coppers can't do right. They act with any force, and they are bullies or scum, they don't act when people want them to, and they are scum.
16 June 2009, 11:59 AM
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Haha whats all this hitting him in the head crap about, are you blind or just looking to make an arguement out of it 
You can see clearly he aint giving the arm up. Deserved everything he got.
Was he a pisshead? I cant see that by looking at him on the floor.
Beating someone fair and square in a fight is a one on one thing. Getting someone under control safely takes as many as it takes end of.
Dear oh dear, watch out, here come the police haters in force
Imagine the alternative scene.
The 1 cop who originally approaches the guy tells him he is arrested, asks him to kneel or just place his hands behind his back, the guy does as he is asked, cuffs are placed on, transport arrives and off he goes......
So I wonder how it reached the stage it did. Who's fault is that I wonder.
You can see clearly he aint giving the arm up. Deserved everything he got.
Was he a pisshead? I cant see that by looking at him on the floor.
Beating someone fair and square in a fight is a one on one thing. Getting someone under control safely takes as many as it takes end of.
Dear oh dear, watch out, here come the police haters in force
Imagine the alternative scene.
The 1 cop who originally approaches the guy tells him he is arrested, asks him to kneel or just place his hands behind his back, the guy does as he is asked, cuffs are placed on, transport arrives and off he goes......
So I wonder how it reached the stage it did. Who's fault is that I wonder.
16 June 2009, 01:37 PM
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Whatever anyone says, the Tazer is a dangerous weapon if used indiscriminately. It can certainly induce heart failure in adverse conditions and could well cause damage to the nervous system.
It should certainly be used only in circumstances where it is the only way to achieve control of someone in custody, and there is actual danger to the officers.
It is very obvious to me that those coppers were out for blood, they had the bloke on the ground, pinned down and unable to resist arrest. The punching that was going on was not necessary and I reckoned that the copper was just enjoying the excuse to beat someone up. The bloke had been attacked with the Tazer earlier-while he was on his back on the ground but after all that and the thumping about the copper shouted at his mates to let him go so that he could use the Tazer again for goodness sake! He had not even been trying to escape at that stage!
It very much reminds me of the gun attack on De Menezes in the underground train where he was sitting quietly, with no indication of a bomb about his person, and when he was shot in the head and when after that the other coppers jumped on his body and fired a further 6 shots into his head! How many head shots does it take to kill someone I wonder? It all seemed that they all wanted the excuse to shoot the poor bloke just for the hell of it!
I think these sorts of actions that we see these days should be an abject warning to us all!
Les
It should certainly be used only in circumstances where it is the only way to achieve control of someone in custody, and there is actual danger to the officers.
It is very obvious to me that those coppers were out for blood, they had the bloke on the ground, pinned down and unable to resist arrest. The punching that was going on was not necessary and I reckoned that the copper was just enjoying the excuse to beat someone up. The bloke had been attacked with the Tazer earlier-while he was on his back on the ground but after all that and the thumping about the copper shouted at his mates to let him go so that he could use the Tazer again for goodness sake! He had not even been trying to escape at that stage!
It very much reminds me of the gun attack on De Menezes in the underground train where he was sitting quietly, with no indication of a bomb about his person, and when he was shot in the head and when after that the other coppers jumped on his body and fired a further 6 shots into his head! How many head shots does it take to kill someone I wonder? It all seemed that they all wanted the excuse to shoot the poor bloke just for the hell of it!
I think these sorts of actions that we see these days should be an abject warning to us all!
Les
16 June 2009, 02:09 PM
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Easy solution, don't get pissed up, then assault somebody and then finally refuse to be cuffed, if you don't do those 3 things then you won't get tazered.
All pissed up bruisers should get a good shoeing like this, it's the only language they understand, trying to reason with them just don't work.
And I'd happily take that treatment if I was causing the same situation.
Wasting police time by trying to negotate with pissheads and druggies is futile, show them the cosh, good and hard!
I learnt my lesson with strong arm police tactics when growing up, never did me any harm and I feel a grudging respect for them and the job they have to do these days.
All pissed up bruisers should get a good shoeing like this, it's the only language they understand, trying to reason with them just don't work.
And I'd happily take that treatment if I was causing the same situation.
Wasting police time by trying to negotate with pissheads and druggies is futile, show them the cosh, good and hard!
I learnt my lesson with strong arm police tactics when growing up, never did me any harm and I feel a grudging respect for them and the job they have to do these days.
16 June 2009, 02:16 PM
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Easy solution, don't get pissed up, then assault somebody and then finally refuse to be cuffed, if you don't do those 3 things then you won't get tazered.
All pissed up bruisers should get a good shoeing like this, it's the only language they understand, trying to reason with them just don't work.
And I'd happily take that treatment if I was causing the same situation.
Wasting police time by trying to negotate with pissheads and druggies is futile, show them the cosh, good and hard!
I learnt my lesson with strong arm police tactics when growing up, never did me any harm and I feel a grudging respect for them and the job they have to do these days.
All pissed up bruisers should get a good shoeing like this, it's the only language they understand, trying to reason with them just don't work.
And I'd happily take that treatment if I was causing the same situation.
Wasting police time by trying to negotate with pissheads and druggies is futile, show them the cosh, good and hard!
I learnt my lesson with strong arm police tactics when growing up, never did me any harm and I feel a grudging respect for them and the job they have to do these days.
If I knew the pigs were going to jump me when I go out on the razz I'd make sure I took my shooter with me and pop a cap in their bacon ar$ses
16 June 2009, 04:10 PM
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Exactly, a bunch of bully victims dishing out what happened to them at school!
There was no need for the ****** coppers
Basically its 4 coppers beating up on a pisshead, then using a ******* tazer on him, then carry on beating him, then tazer him again!
Bunch of *******,
Why are all coppers pussies when they are on their own,
All street coppers are total *****!
There was no need for the ****** coppers
Basically its 4 coppers beating up on a pisshead, then using a ******* tazer on him, then carry on beating him, then tazer him again!
Bunch of *******,
Why are all coppers pussies when they are on their own,
All street coppers are total *****!
G00ner, spot on mate
Les, it would not really draw parallels to JCD's death and this. Very different circumstances.
While its forceful, they did NOT have control of him. If he was cuffed and being tasered then fair enough. All he had to do was put his arms behind his back, is that so hard?
The thumping happens a lot, and I believe part of certain training.
He did not appear to be trying to escape, but he also didnt appear to be giving up resisting either.
As for JCD, lol I love the simplification of the situation, "sitting quietly, with no indication of a bomb about his person"... all very well but intelligence said otherwise, and they were acting on orders. Thats like holding the soldier who "invaded" Iraq personally responsible for every death as there were no WMD's after all.
This guy was causing trouble to have got the attention of the police in the first place, and should have done as he was told. Surely 2 coppers wrestling with you on the ground is a good indicator to give up and put your arms behind your back?
16 June 2009, 04:21 PM
#29
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No doubt they'll find some child **** on the guys home PC next
