Homebuyers Survey
08 June 2009, 08:15 AM
#1
Homebuyers Survey
Ive just bought a property, I looked round it and saw a few defects,
But my partener wanted me to get a full survey , As she has gone halves,
Anyway got one done
He saw less defects than me,
Now 3 weeks after owning it, Ive found out it has wet rot , No earth in the lighting, and 12 double glazed units have failed,
Going to cost around £3,000,
But my partener wanted me to get a full survey , As she has gone halves,
Anyway got one done
He saw less defects than me, Now 3 weeks after owning it, Ive found out it has wet rot , No earth in the lighting, and 12 double glazed units have failed,
Going to cost around £3,000,
08 June 2009, 08:56 AM
#2
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Contact the surveyor, sounds to me like you may have a claim against his insurance.
If he has not highlighted certainly the wet rot and/or requested further reports on electrical system then you have a good chhoice.
TBH a homebuyers is not really worth the paper it is written all. All most surveyors do is walk round and if they see area's of concern they recommend further reports. Either having a buidling survey (expensive) or I think taking round an expereinced builder/developer that knows what they are looking for will give a much better idea as to the overall condition.
Waste of time as you then have to go and pay other specalists to look into other problems. He is insured (has to be by law) so if he does miss things you could make a claim against him.
Chop
If he has not highlighted certainly the wet rot and/or requested further reports on electrical system then you have a good chhoice.
TBH a homebuyers is not really worth the paper it is written all. All most surveyors do is walk round and if they see area's of concern they recommend further reports. Either having a buidling survey (expensive) or I think taking round an expereinced builder/developer that knows what they are looking for will give a much better idea as to the overall condition.
Waste of time as you then have to go and pay other specalists to look into other problems. He is insured (has to be by law) so if he does miss things you could make a claim against him.
Chop
08 June 2009, 09:39 AM
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Homebuyers survey is not a full survey. Which did you have done?
As mentioned the homebuyers is very much a wander round, note defects, report on general condition, and if required suggest further inspections (e.g. electrical survey). They also provide a valuation to your lenders and a rebuild cost for insurance.
We had a full on ours, although the £1k it cost at the time seems a lot I thought that given the amount of money we were spending on the house it gave peace of mind. We purchased with a view to a renovation project so wanted to be sure it was structurally sound if nothing else.
Found a few things like some rising damp, and highlighted a lot of stuff that we mostly knew about anyway but good to know that we hadn't missed any big problems.
Even then the comment on the electrics was that it all looked okay but an electrical survey would be worthwhile, same for the gas. We took the risk on these and luckily its all okay. As and when we have the building work done the fuse box etc. will no doubt be replaced.
As mentioned the homebuyers is very much a wander round, note defects, report on general condition, and if required suggest further inspections (e.g. electrical survey). They also provide a valuation to your lenders and a rebuild cost for insurance.
We had a full on ours, although the £1k it cost at the time seems a lot I thought that given the amount of money we were spending on the house it gave peace of mind. We purchased with a view to a renovation project so wanted to be sure it was structurally sound if nothing else.
Found a few things like some rising damp, and highlighted a lot of stuff that we mostly knew about anyway but good to know that we hadn't missed any big problems.
Even then the comment on the electrics was that it all looked okay but an electrical survey would be worthwhile, same for the gas. We took the risk on these and luckily its all okay. As and when we have the building work done the fuse box etc. will no doubt be replaced.
08 June 2009, 01:47 PM
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Interesting
RICS surveys
RICS homebuyer survey
Electrics cannot be inspected because it is too dangerous to start opening switches and sockets. testing these circuits is a specialist task. If it looks in generally good condition it gets passed.
Failed double glazing is not a major fault. Although in this day and age of energy efficiency being one of the main criteria for building construction perhaps it should be.
Rot would depend on the extent and whether it affected structural timbers such as roof joists, or just window frames.
Based on the bold section above you should attempt a claim.
RICS surveys
RICS homebuyer survey
Originally Posted by RICS
An HSV includes details of:
Any major faults in accessible parts of the building that may affect the value
Damage to timbers – including woodworm or rot
Any major faults in accessible parts of the building that may affect the value
Damage to timbers – including woodworm or rot
Failed double glazing is not a major fault. Although in this day and age of energy efficiency being one of the main criteria for building construction perhaps it should be.
Rot would depend on the extent and whether it affected structural timbers such as roof joists, or just window frames.
Based on the bold section above you should attempt a claim.
08 June 2009, 02:03 PM
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This sounds familar. When I brought my house I had a survery, albeit not the major one. Looking at the list of faults, roof aerial loose, crack over a door and a broken ring on my hob ( yes a he noticed a broken ring on my hub ) thought happy days.
Brought the house and shutting the door on the first night, noticed the floor dropped down a bit. Further investigation showed the whole ground floor had rot, due to the joists going into the cavity wall, and that being filled with rubbish. Electrics were shot, and the plumbing was leaking. So, he spotted the hobb ring but missed the rotten floor.
So, two year later, rewiring the house, re-plumbied, new ground floor, rebuilt the loft extension, everything sorted. God knows what would of happened if he hadnt spotted that aerial / hub ring ! Christ, could of been terrible :-)
Best of luck sueing, as the contract always has get out causes, cost you fortunes in letters, advise etc, when you can imagine this guy has a mate who's a solicitor and will act on his behalf for free.
Life sucks mate, but you live and learn.
SBK
Brought the house and shutting the door on the first night, noticed the floor dropped down a bit. Further investigation showed the whole ground floor had rot, due to the joists going into the cavity wall, and that being filled with rubbish. Electrics were shot, and the plumbing was leaking. So, he spotted the hobb ring but missed the rotten floor.
So, two year later, rewiring the house, re-plumbied, new ground floor, rebuilt the loft extension, everything sorted. God knows what would of happened if he hadnt spotted that aerial / hub ring ! Christ, could of been terrible :-)
Best of luck sueing, as the contract always has get out causes, cost you fortunes in letters, advise etc, when you can imagine this guy has a mate who's a solicitor and will act on his behalf for free.
Life sucks mate, but you live and learn.
SBK
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08 June 2009, 06:22 PM
#8
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TBH - dont expect to ever buy a house and not have something wrong with it, or not done to the standard you would want !
All houses, new or old, have loads of faults - mainly because they are built by builders - the deeper you probe, the more you will find, but for any survey, they cant go in pulling up all the floorboards, taking of the wallpaper, digging out the wiring etc... as it isnt practical.
Any survey is only really going to uncover faults that are fairly obvious from a quick visual inspection.
Our house, which was built in the 60's must have been done the week the bloke with the spirit level was on holiday as I dont think theres a single 90 degree angle anywhere in the place - makes it very awkward when hanging doors, fitting a new kitchen, bath etc... as everything has to be altered to fit properly.
As we are planning to stay in the house for a good while, what I am doing is redoing each room one at a time, and putting right as many of the faults and dodgy bits as is practical as I go through.
This is why when my wife tells people I'm 'redecorating the living room' and they expect it to be finished in a weekend, it actually takes a few months as my version of re-doing a room is pretty much stripping everything back and doing it over.
All houses, new or old, have loads of faults - mainly because they are built by builders - the deeper you probe, the more you will find, but for any survey, they cant go in pulling up all the floorboards, taking of the wallpaper, digging out the wiring etc... as it isnt practical.
Any survey is only really going to uncover faults that are fairly obvious from a quick visual inspection.
Our house, which was built in the 60's must have been done the week the bloke with the spirit level was on holiday as I dont think theres a single 90 degree angle anywhere in the place - makes it very awkward when hanging doors, fitting a new kitchen, bath etc... as everything has to be altered to fit properly.
As we are planning to stay in the house for a good while, what I am doing is redoing each room one at a time, and putting right as many of the faults and dodgy bits as is practical as I go through.
This is why when my wife tells people I'm 'redecorating the living room' and they expect it to be finished in a weekend, it actually takes a few months as my version of re-doing a room is pretty much stripping everything back and doing it over.
08 June 2009, 08:45 PM
#9
We moved into the new house a couple of weeks ago (40 year old house with 1 owner since built). We knew it needed the garage refurbing so ordered a new 1 last week (bigger) and ordered a new bigger shed for this week.
The inside is pretty tidy but does need brightening up (when we get time to do it) but we wanted some extra plug sockets straight away as there are so few.
We got a sparky up to price the sockets and he said the house has no earthed wiring and as the current sockets are on the skirting boards the whole house needs rewiring
this is being done today/ tommorow at a cost of £2500!!!! wasn't expecting that and as the walls are being damaged (he is re-plastering) the decorating is now having to be done sooner
The inside is pretty tidy but does need brightening up (when we get time to do it) but we wanted some extra plug sockets straight away as there are so few.
We got a sparky up to price the sockets and he said the house has no earthed wiring and as the current sockets are on the skirting boards the whole house needs rewiring
this is being done today/ tommorow at a cost of £2500!!!! wasn't expecting that and as the walls are being damaged (he is re-plastering) the decorating is now having to be done sooner
09 June 2009, 08:36 AM
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Are you sure the sockets have no earth ??? Have you taken any off and looked to see if there is an earth connected to them ???
Seems odd if the circuits were installed with no earth - our house is older than yours, and had the original wiring in it ( only one owner from new before we bought it ) - there was no earth on the lighting circuits, which is perfectly normal for the time ( they were all done with seperate red and black wires ), but the sockets were all earthed as the sort of cable they used back then was the red/black/earth twisted cable sort.
Is your fuse box the old wire sort, or has it been replaced by a later one with trip switches ?
If there isnt an earth, then it would need redoing, but if there is, and its just the lights that dont have it then theres no need to rewire the house - OK, for peace of mind and to bring it up to date, then it wont hurt to have it redone, but there isnt any legal or rules reason to replace the original wiring in a house if there arent any problems with it ( if there was, most of the houses in the UK would need completely rewiring every couple of years as they wouldnt be up to the spec of the latest electricians rules ! ).
Most electricians if inspecting a house that has old wiring will tell you it all needs replacing, but I think this is often to make work from themselves, not because it actually does.
Seems odd if the circuits were installed with no earth - our house is older than yours, and had the original wiring in it ( only one owner from new before we bought it ) - there was no earth on the lighting circuits, which is perfectly normal for the time ( they were all done with seperate red and black wires ), but the sockets were all earthed as the sort of cable they used back then was the red/black/earth twisted cable sort.
Is your fuse box the old wire sort, or has it been replaced by a later one with trip switches ?
If there isnt an earth, then it would need redoing, but if there is, and its just the lights that dont have it then theres no need to rewire the house - OK, for peace of mind and to bring it up to date, then it wont hurt to have it redone, but there isnt any legal or rules reason to replace the original wiring in a house if there arent any problems with it ( if there was, most of the houses in the UK would need completely rewiring every couple of years as they wouldnt be up to the spec of the latest electricians rules ! ).
Most electricians if inspecting a house that has old wiring will tell you it all needs replacing, but I think this is often to make work from themselves, not because it actually does.
09 June 2009, 09:43 AM
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its probably as he wants extra sockets the electrician legally has to match the exisitng wiring. Problem is the exisitng wiring can no longer be used so the rest of the sockets have to be re wired using the latest colour system. Always a possibility off finding a friendly electrician who still has the old coloured wiring available can add extra sockets using that.
09 June 2009, 09:54 AM
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When we bought our present house, the surveyor commented that he'd looked at the wiring, and noted that most of it was insulated with rubber........which was already perishing.:eek;
We had it rewired with RCD's, split load, MCB's etc, cost us £800 in 1988
And as it was a sellers' market at the time, WE had to pay, and that was half the money we had for a new kitchen.........the hot water sytem took the rest
Caveat Emptorium.
We had it rewired with RCD's, split load, MCB's etc, cost us £800 in 1988
And as it was a sellers' market at the time, WE had to pay, and that was half the money we had for a new kitchen.........the hot water sytem took the rest
Caveat Emptorium.
09 June 2009, 08:40 PM
#13
Well the jobs now finished so should last a few years to come.
The old sockets were on the skirting boards which we were told is not upto standard and the wiring wasn't earthed so new sockets couldn't be connected?
A new fuse box has been fitted with trip switches as the old 1 was the old fashioned box
The so called plastering work to fill in the holes in the skirting board left by the old sockets - bloody white silicone sealant!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The old sockets were on the skirting boards which we were told is not upto standard and the wiring wasn't earthed so new sockets couldn't be connected?
A new fuse box has been fitted with trip switches as the old 1 was the old fashioned box
The so called plastering work to fill in the holes in the skirting board left by the old sockets - bloody white silicone sealant!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
09 June 2009, 08:46 PM
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its probably as he wants extra sockets the electrician legally has to match the exisitng wiring. Problem is the exisitng wiring can no longer be used so the rest of the sockets have to be re wired using the latest colour system. Always a possibility off finding a friendly electrician who still has the old coloured wiring available can add extra sockets using that.
10 June 2009, 08:31 PM
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Ive just bought a property, I looked round it and saw a few defects,
But my partener wanted me to get a full survey , As she has gone halves,
Anyway got one done He saw less defects than me,
Now 3 weeks after owning it, Ive found out it has wet rot , No earth in the lighting, and 12 double glazed units have failed,
Going to cost around £3,000,
But my partener wanted me to get a full survey , As she has gone halves,
Anyway got one done
He saw less defects than me, Now 3 weeks after owning it, Ive found out it has wet rot , No earth in the lighting, and 12 double glazed units have failed,
Going to cost around £3,000,
Surveyors are normally excellent within their field, but unless stated, are not specialist.
Surveyor's contracts may even have get-out clauses such as 'cannot be held responsible for defects not seen...'.
I'm a sparky all the way up in Carlisle, Cumbria, but travel all over the UK undertaking quality audits on behalf of those employing sparky's and undertaking eletrical testing & inspection of one sort or another.
My advice to any person buying a home is if there is not a current safety certificate on the home to ask the seller to provide a periodical inspection report (around (£125-175) or be willing to reduce the selling price by the cost of an electrical rewire & making good.
If you've bought a home, before you get the paint & wallpaper out have the electrics inspected and rewire before you spend lottsa spondoolies on making what you see look nice.
To sort the electrics out now will mean 17th Edition Electrical Regulations upgrades to be safe - do a google search for The Electrical Safety Council or NICEIC to find out a bit more.
I also run a small traditional & listed home refurbishment business... I have ceased to be amazed at what can be seen up in the roof, under the floorboards and elsewhere EVEN after surveyors reports!!!
11 June 2009, 08:54 AM
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... and I can imagine most sellers telling you where to go straight away !
OK, it may not be such a sellers market anymore, but any extra inspections are down to the buyer, just like survey costs - if you were selling you wouldnt expect the buyer to tell you get a full survey done at your expense, or they would knock a few grand off the price of the house just in case of any problems !
Be honest, how many homes where the owners have lived there more than a few years have a safety certificate ? And in most homes where the wiring is more than a few years old ( and is probably perfectly safe ), half the sparkies you call in will suck their teeth and tell you the whole house needs rewiring as it 'isnt up to standard' ( not tarring all with the same brush, but to a lot of people electrics is a complete mystery, so they are at the mercy of unscrupulous tradesmen, just the same as if you get British Gas to look at your boiler, if it is over 5 years old they automatically tell you you need a new one ! )
All the surveys I have seen always have a clause at the end for the heating and electrical systems saying you should get an inspection by a qualified person as the surveyor cant do it.
OK, it may not be such a sellers market anymore, but any extra inspections are down to the buyer, just like survey costs - if you were selling you wouldnt expect the buyer to tell you get a full survey done at your expense, or they would knock a few grand off the price of the house just in case of any problems !
Be honest, how many homes where the owners have lived there more than a few years have a safety certificate ? And in most homes where the wiring is more than a few years old ( and is probably perfectly safe ), half the sparkies you call in will suck their teeth and tell you the whole house needs rewiring as it 'isnt up to standard' ( not tarring all with the same brush, but to a lot of people electrics is a complete mystery, so they are at the mercy of unscrupulous tradesmen, just the same as if you get British Gas to look at your boiler, if it is over 5 years old they automatically tell you you need a new one ! )
All the surveys I have seen always have a clause at the end for the heating and electrical systems saying you should get an inspection by a qualified person as the surveyor cant do it.
11 June 2009, 10:52 AM
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... and I can imagine most sellers telling you where to go straight away !
OK, it may not be such a sellers market anymore, but any extra inspections are down to the buyer, just like survey costs - if you were selling you wouldnt expect the buyer to tell you get a full survey done at your expense, or they would knock a few grand off the price of the house just in case of any problems !
Be honest, how many homes where the owners have lived there more than a few years have a safety certificate ? And in most homes where the wiring is more than a few years old ( and is probably perfectly safe ), half the sparkies you call in will suck their teeth and tell you the whole house needs rewiring as it 'isnt up to standard' ( not tarring all with the same brush, but to a lot of people electrics is a complete mystery, so they are at the mercy of unscrupulous tradesmen, just the same as if you get British Gas to look at your boiler, if it is over 5 years old they automatically tell you you need a new one ! )
All the surveys I have seen always have a clause at the end for the heating and electrical systems saying you should get an inspection by a qualified person as the surveyor cant do it.
OK, it may not be such a sellers market anymore, but any extra inspections are down to the buyer, just like survey costs - if you were selling you wouldnt expect the buyer to tell you get a full survey done at your expense, or they would knock a few grand off the price of the house just in case of any problems !
Be honest, how many homes where the owners have lived there more than a few years have a safety certificate ? And in most homes where the wiring is more than a few years old ( and is probably perfectly safe ), half the sparkies you call in will suck their teeth and tell you the whole house needs rewiring as it 'isnt up to standard' ( not tarring all with the same brush, but to a lot of people electrics is a complete mystery, so they are at the mercy of unscrupulous tradesmen, just the same as if you get British Gas to look at your boiler, if it is over 5 years old they automatically tell you you need a new one ! )
All the surveys I have seen always have a clause at the end for the heating and electrical systems saying you should get an inspection by a qualified person as the surveyor cant do it.
As a seller of a car I will include the MOT. If I were to sell my home I'd include gas safety and electrical certificates, but this is me.
I consider myself to be a straight sparky. I have undertaken works which have caused consternation to builders and electrical contractors and a reference for a few years sorting out the mess of others after flood reinstatement works were completed up here in Carlisle appears on my website
Electricians stating rewires are required when they are not... If the cable is rubber, then yes, but otherwise the need for a rewire can only be ascertained through test & inspection.
I have upgraded 30 year old electrics to latest regulations due to acceptable insulation resistance and earth fault loop test results.
Electrical safety certificates... When the original expires home owners seldom have them renewed. I always advise homeowners to look at the small print in their insurance policies to ascertain the need of such... Some insurers will not make good the loss of an electrical fire without a current electrical safety certificate being provided.
As to unscrupulous tradesmen... I use the term 'non-demonstration of good trade skills' in pre-court reports.
There are also unscrupulous homeowners!
Nothing is FREE in life...Free Advice, Free quotations, Free gifts - all marketing methods used or abused.
If a homeowner would like professional advice without a sting in its tail then the homeowner must pay for such...
As a professional I dont do "FREE" - I charge for my professional time. I either provide periodical inspection reports with a list of works needing to be rectified (which the client can use to obtain quotations from a number of local contractors) OR where rewires are concerned I assist with the design to meet the clients needs and prepare a works specification (which the client can use to obtain quotations). The latter is an excellent way to ensure the difference between a £4000 quote and a £3000 quote isn't due to the first contractor including telephone, tv and computer outlets in each room as well as making-good flush cable chases to plaster level.
The moral of the above must be "Buyer Beware".
I know nothing about horses except they have four legs and are raced. If I were to buy one for my young daughter I'd pay for professional advice prior to making the purchase.
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