Policing Policy in the UK - How do we influence it?
28 February 2002, 11:21 AM
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I live in Lancashire (more's the pity) and in my area vandalism, theft and burglary (not to mention violent crime) is on the increase as it is everywhere in the UK. Recently over the period of a month or so my friend and neighbour had his business premises broken into, his garage burgled and one of his vans set alight in Bury by some vandals.
In the case of the two break ins when he reported them to the police they refused to atend as they had no resources, but they did give him crime numbers and send him some victim support leaflets (what a joke).
In the case of the van fire they had to begrudgingly attend and virtually accused the driver (who works for my friend) of doing it himself (how that would have been of benefit to him God only knows).
So if they are low on resources what do they do when they get some finances - employ extra policemen/women to investigate the rising tide of crime - no chance instead they buy some mobile speed cameras and nice new MPV's to hide them in. They have spent the last few weeks hiding all over the area near where we live and this morning my friend gets three (YES THREE) tickets for doing
35 in a 30, 36 in a 30 and 36 in a 30 over a period of two days just under two weeks ago. Two were him and one was his wife in his car and all were recorded on a dual carriageway which is not and accident blackspot and arguably shouldn't be a 30 limit anyway.
What is wrong with the police and the government when this sort of thing is allowed to go on? We pay these people's wages and I want a say in how they go about policing in the UK, but I don't have one. There is no point saying don't vote Labour as it was just as bad if not worse under the Tories.
Will the police be happy when society eventually snaps and you have the vigalante mentality take over. I suppose they probably will as they can carry on sitting in their nice warm cars and offices rather than doing what they are supposed to be paid for.
I know some of the coppers on Scoobynet will no doubt reply as they have in the past about how they are only doing what they are told, but I'm sorry that's what they said at Nuremburg and it doesn't really wash with me. If they want they must be able to exert influence on their so called senior officers who set these stupid policies so why aren't they?
In my opinion it's becuase they don't really want to - they are happier manning the speed traps and sitting behind their desks doing paperwork as it means they don't have to put themselves in any danger by investigating real crime. Well if that's what they want they shouldn't have joined the police.
Anyway do any of you have any real ideas as to how we the general public can exert some influence over the police and how they do their job because in case you hadn't guessed I'm pretty pi55ed off with the way it's going at the moment. Instead of moaning though I'd like to actually do something about it.
Sorry for the length of this and my ranting and I know it should probably be in another part of the forum, but at least some people will see it here before it is moved,
Regards,
tiggers.
In the case of the two break ins when he reported them to the police they refused to atend as they had no resources, but they did give him crime numbers and send him some victim support leaflets (what a joke).
In the case of the van fire they had to begrudgingly attend and virtually accused the driver (who works for my friend) of doing it himself (how that would have been of benefit to him God only knows).
So if they are low on resources what do they do when they get some finances - employ extra policemen/women to investigate the rising tide of crime - no chance instead they buy some mobile speed cameras and nice new MPV's to hide them in. They have spent the last few weeks hiding all over the area near where we live and this morning my friend gets three (YES THREE) tickets for doing
35 in a 30, 36 in a 30 and 36 in a 30 over a period of two days just under two weeks ago. Two were him and one was his wife in his car and all were recorded on a dual carriageway which is not and accident blackspot and arguably shouldn't be a 30 limit anyway.
What is wrong with the police and the government when this sort of thing is allowed to go on? We pay these people's wages and I want a say in how they go about policing in the UK, but I don't have one. There is no point saying don't vote Labour as it was just as bad if not worse under the Tories.
Will the police be happy when society eventually snaps and you have the vigalante mentality take over. I suppose they probably will as they can carry on sitting in their nice warm cars and offices rather than doing what they are supposed to be paid for.
I know some of the coppers on Scoobynet will no doubt reply as they have in the past about how they are only doing what they are told, but I'm sorry that's what they said at Nuremburg and it doesn't really wash with me. If they want they must be able to exert influence on their so called senior officers who set these stupid policies so why aren't they?
In my opinion it's becuase they don't really want to - they are happier manning the speed traps and sitting behind their desks doing paperwork as it means they don't have to put themselves in any danger by investigating real crime. Well if that's what they want they shouldn't have joined the police.
Anyway do any of you have any real ideas as to how we the general public can exert some influence over the police and how they do their job because in case you hadn't guessed I'm pretty pi55ed off with the way it's going at the moment. Instead of moaning though I'd like to actually do something about it.
Sorry for the length of this and my ranting and I know it should probably be in another part of the forum, but at least some people will see it here before it is moved,
Regards,
tiggers.
28 February 2002, 11:27 AM
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Tiggers,
There is only one way. You need to engage them head on. That means writing to your MP, councillors, getting other residents involved, attending meetings, putting your objections in, maybe standing for election as a local councillor.
Also, write to your local paper, form a <place> Road Safety group. Pull apart their statistics on accident reductions due to speed cmaeras. Join the IAM/ROSPA to emphasis your road safety role.
There is only one way. You need to engage them head on. That means writing to your MP, councillors, getting other residents involved, attending meetings, putting your objections in, maybe standing for election as a local councillor.
Also, write to your local paper, form a <place> Road Safety group. Pull apart their statistics on accident reductions due to speed cmaeras. Join the IAM/ROSPA to emphasis your road safety role.
28 February 2002, 11:50 AM
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I am not defending this rising speed camera policy or speeding campaigns etc BUT the government tell the police what to do. Revenue from speed cameras is NOT ALLOWED to be put into anything else except speeding projects. This is the fault of the government NOT the police. Now this country voted in the current government. The solution is fairly obvious?
The number of police around at the moment anyway is diabolically low, and I can say that the number of traffic police around here at least is low. So whats left are fighting crime (or trying to in this climate of anti police)
If you really are that passionate about policing why don't you ask if you can see what they do first hand for a day or so. You may change your opinion.
Crimes go unsolved because this country is rapidly developing a "look after yourself and sod the rest" mentality. No one is ever prepared to stand up and do something as long as they're not affected. Probably because the courts never give out any reasonable punishment. But then who sets the suggested lists of punishment for the courts.......? Oh yes, the government.
Something to think about?
The number of police around at the moment anyway is diabolically low, and I can say that the number of traffic police around here at least is low. So whats left are fighting crime (or trying to in this climate of anti police)
If you really are that passionate about policing why don't you ask if you can see what they do first hand for a day or so. You may change your opinion.
Crimes go unsolved because this country is rapidly developing a "look after yourself and sod the rest" mentality. No one is ever prepared to stand up and do something as long as they're not affected. Probably because the courts never give out any reasonable punishment. But then who sets the suggested lists of punishment for the courts.......? Oh yes, the government.
Something to think about?
28 February 2002, 12:30 PM
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I'm afraid that whatever we do as the general public will make no change whatsoever. I was too was under the misapprehension that we lived in a democracy, that we voted for the government we wanted and that we would get policies and action we wanted..
Then.. the fuel protests... This was clearly an issue that had the majority of the people behind it and what was the reaction from OUR government?? Tony SMUG came into Downing Street and said, (forgive me if I paraphrase), 'F**k what you want, I'm in charge, pay-up or walk!'
Please don't take this as a Labour bash, in my opinion they're all the same.. They all lack the spine to take real action. Government and police are emasculated by the Court of Human rights. Take this very bulletin board.. a great deal of hardworking, taxpaying citizens are contemplating vigilante action against the scum who pray on us. Is this right? No way.. Can we trust the government and police to sort it? Dream on... So what do we do??? We put bars on our houses to keep out the people who should be behind bars..
RANT over.. but I still don't feel any better..
Then.. the fuel protests... This was clearly an issue that had the majority of the people behind it and what was the reaction from OUR government?? Tony SMUG came into Downing Street and said, (forgive me if I paraphrase), 'F**k what you want, I'm in charge, pay-up or walk!'
Please don't take this as a Labour bash, in my opinion they're all the same.. They all lack the spine to take real action. Government and police are emasculated by the Court of Human rights. Take this very bulletin board.. a great deal of hardworking, taxpaying citizens are contemplating vigilante action against the scum who pray on us. Is this right? No way.. Can we trust the government and police to sort it? Dream on... So what do we do??? We put bars on our houses to keep out the people who should be behind bars..
RANT over.. but I still don't feel any better..
28 February 2002, 12:55 PM
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28 February 2002, 01:13 PM
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You could always try writing to your MP, but my experience is that trying to get an MP to believe their policies are wrong is about as easy as trying to convince an eskimo that his igloo in on fire.
The Reading MP took offence when I said that the town's Park and Ride system was laughable - can you think of a better description for a Park and Ride that costs more than parking in the town centre, and is closed every so often because the site floods?
Sadly, at the end of the day it is the police that suffer - the officers on the street are only doing what the policies dictate they do, and they suffer from it because they lose the respect of the public.
The government has become too interested in satisfying the minority pressure groups at the expense of the majority. The only bright side is that one day the motorist may become protected in much the same way as other endangered species are.
The Reading MP took offence when I said that the town's Park and Ride system was laughable - can you think of a better description for a Park and Ride that costs more than parking in the town centre, and is closed every so often because the site floods?
Sadly, at the end of the day it is the police that suffer - the officers on the street are only doing what the policies dictate they do, and they suffer from it because they lose the respect of the public.
The government has become too interested in satisfying the minority pressure groups at the expense of the majority. The only bright side is that one day the motorist may become protected in much the same way as other endangered species are.
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28 February 2002, 01:28 PM
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I'm afraid that I don't agree with the other posters. You HAVE to engage these people and beat them with their own arguements.
Not saying it is easy but you have to keep on and on and on and on and on.
Not saying it is easy but you have to keep on and on and on and on and on.
28 February 2002, 01:32 PM
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To be fair, I got far more positive feedback from my local Conservative MP - I wrote to him a while back regarding the idea for speed limiters, and part of his reply was...
"Thank you for your e mail. I entirely agree, and am soon to publish a proposed transport policy which recognises the importance of the car and the need to treat motorists better"
Hopefully that has some impact.
"Thank you for your e mail. I entirely agree, and am soon to publish a proposed transport policy which recognises the importance of the car and the need to treat motorists better"
Hopefully that has some impact.
28 February 2002, 01:36 PM
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If we are talking about the police then I have to admit that Surrey police arnt all that bad. Okay I know for a fact that they have no budget at all (half what they had last year if my source is correct) but they are not frittering away what little they have on pointless speed traps. They are actually doing their damndest to fight crime that is worth fighting and leaving the speed traps cos is really isnt that important compared to muggings/shooting/stabbings etc.
Even the majority of surrey coppers I have "encountered"
are decent people with no hitler delusions, meglomania trips, school bullying problems etc. they do what they need to do and leave the unnessasary **** out.
IMO of course
astraboy.
Even the majority of surrey coppers I have "encountered"
are decent people with no hitler delusions, meglomania trips, school bullying problems etc. they do what they need to do and leave the unnessasary **** out. IMO of course
astraboy.
28 February 2002, 01:52 PM
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Sorry to be defeatist... or maybe just realistic.. BUT... if pretty much the whole country grinding to a halt for a week and hospitals and emergency services going onto red alert can't influence a small change in fuel tax levy, what impact do you expect to have with a few letters??
BTW I think in the main the police do a great job on limited resources. A thankless task in the main that sees criminals returned to the streets to re-offend time and again..
BTW I think in the main the police do a great job on limited resources. A thankless task in the main that sees criminals returned to the streets to re-offend time and again..
28 February 2002, 02:01 PM
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If you think that you can't influence the situation then the tree huggers and Blairite anti-driving lobbyists have won.
1stly - join the abd. It's cheap, keeps you informed, but if they get enough members then they can begin to have a real influence in terms of pursuading the policymakers against idiot draconian laws. he abd advocate education, whereas the current anti motorist groups give out the message speed kills. No it doesn't, it's innapropriate speed, careless or dangerous driving that kills. This is a small example, one which the abd needs more members to full represent without being dismissed as a 'speed crazed minority'.
2ndly) Buy radar detectors etc. Sure, the police have the right to use these devices, but we also have the right to defend ourselves against the use of these. They are not illegal. (yet).
There's probably a wider discussion to be had here about the use of police time etc, but don't just give in.
Andy
1stly - join the abd. It's cheap, keeps you informed, but if they get enough members then they can begin to have a real influence in terms of pursuading the policymakers against idiot draconian laws. he abd advocate education, whereas the current anti motorist groups give out the message speed kills. No it doesn't, it's innapropriate speed, careless or dangerous driving that kills. This is a small example, one which the abd needs more members to full represent without being dismissed as a 'speed crazed minority'.
2ndly) Buy radar detectors etc. Sure, the police have the right to use these devices, but we also have the right to defend ourselves against the use of these. They are not illegal. (yet).
There's probably a wider discussion to be had here about the use of police time etc, but don't just give in.
Andy
28 February 2002, 04:37 PM
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Tiggers
As I have said before Traffic Policing is a very small part of the job. Unfortunately everybody knows at least 10 people who have been caught speeding and those 10 tell another ten people who tell another 10 people about how they were only doing 30.1 mph.
I rarely get to do traffic work as contrary to popular belief I enjoy chasing real criminals too much. There is nothing more of an adrenalin buzz than catching someone breaking into a house or car. The only trouble is you have to be very luck to do that. The reason being not all criminals are stupid and they don't tend to do it when a Policeman is watching. Unfortunately catching motorists is far easier as everyone, bar a few speed. Most don't care where they do it either. Last year I stopped a BMW M3 driving at 72 in a 30 limit. What was his excuse? None his words were something like "Your wasing my time"
I have said it before and I'll say it again. Get yourself down to Kent and you can come out and see what we really do, you obviously dont have a clue. If I spent time sitting in the station drinking tea I'd be out of a job. If you can tell me where the next burglary will occur I'll come along and watch as I dont know anyone who can predict that. As for being afraid of catching real criminals when was the last time you put yourself in danger to help someone. Ever been stabbed in the back whilst arresting someone for domestic violence by the woman your trying to help. No I didn't think so.
Regards
Nathan..
As I have said before Traffic Policing is a very small part of the job. Unfortunately everybody knows at least 10 people who have been caught speeding and those 10 tell another ten people who tell another 10 people about how they were only doing 30.1 mph.
I rarely get to do traffic work as contrary to popular belief I enjoy chasing real criminals too much. There is nothing more of an adrenalin buzz than catching someone breaking into a house or car. The only trouble is you have to be very luck to do that. The reason being not all criminals are stupid and they don't tend to do it when a Policeman is watching. Unfortunately catching motorists is far easier as everyone, bar a few speed. Most don't care where they do it either. Last year I stopped a BMW M3 driving at 72 in a 30 limit. What was his excuse? None his words were something like "Your wasing my time"
I have said it before and I'll say it again. Get yourself down to Kent and you can come out and see what we really do, you obviously dont have a clue. If I spent time sitting in the station drinking tea I'd be out of a job. If you can tell me where the next burglary will occur I'll come along and watch as I dont know anyone who can predict that. As for being afraid of catching real criminals when was the last time you put yourself in danger to help someone. Ever been stabbed in the back whilst arresting someone for domestic violence by the woman your trying to help. No I didn't think so.
Regards
Nathan..
28 February 2002, 05:22 PM
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Nathan,
Thank you for your patronising reply - how typical.
My friend has these tickets in black and white on his office desk - they are not figments of his or my imagination - they exist and frankly your inane reply makes me more than a little angry.
I agree this is a ludicrous speed, but not exactly comparable to 35 in a 30 is it? Or may be in your eyes it is!!!
Interesting use of an uppercase 'P' there - I bet some psychologists would have a field day with that!
Obviously they don't do it when a policeman (note the lowercase 'p') is watching, and obviously no one can predict the next buglary, but that is not what I mean when I talk about tackling burglary etc. What my friend (and any normal citizen probably) would have liked or even expected is for the police to have attended the break ins to see if anything out of the ordinary had been stolen or anything significant had been left by the criminals, maybe even take the odd fingerprint etc. Then they might stand some chance of tracking them down or identifying them in the event of them being caught for something else etc. To say they have no resources to do this is OK until you find them buying mobile speed cameras and implementing them like this. It's a question of priorities and I think they've got them all wrong. Which is the worst crime 35 in a 30 or breaking and entering - I know what I think - I would hope you think the same way, but your colleagues in Lancashire obviously have a different view.
No, but then I haven't joined the police have I - you must know that's a risk you take when you join up. It's like being in the army and complaining because someone is shooting at you during a conflict/war.
Try addressing the core of some of the issues I raise. You say speed traps are a very small part of policing. Fine, but why then in the last month have I seen speed traps in about ten different locations and in the same time no policemen walking the beat in my area. Don't tell me it's because they don't need to as vandalism and petty theft are rife, I wonder if that could be because no policemen walk the beat - hmmmm!!
Anyway I'll leave it here before I get any more angry. Thanks to all the posters with ideas for writing to my MP etc. I might just do some of that, problem is I work six days a week and a lot of evenings as well so time is not something I have a lot of. I promise I will do something though if Nathan here is anything to go by I think I'm already wasting my time.
Regards,
tiggers.
[Edited by tiggers - 2/28/2002 5:24:56 PM]
Thank you for your patronising reply - how typical.
Unfortunately everybody knows at least 10 people who have been caught speeding and those 10 tell another ten people who tell another 10 people about how they were only doing 30.1 mph.
Last year I stopped a BMW M3 driving at 72 in a 30 limit.
The only trouble is you have to be very luck to do that. The reason being not all criminals are stupid and they don't tend to do it when a Policeman is watching.
If you can tell me where the next burglary will occur I'll come along and watch as I dont know anyone who can predict that.
Obviously they don't do it when a policeman (note the lowercase 'p') is watching, and obviously no one can predict the next buglary, but that is not what I mean when I talk about tackling burglary etc. What my friend (and any normal citizen probably) would have liked or even expected is for the police to have attended the break ins to see if anything out of the ordinary had been stolen or anything significant had been left by the criminals, maybe even take the odd fingerprint etc. Then they might stand some chance of tracking them down or identifying them in the event of them being caught for something else etc. To say they have no resources to do this is OK until you find them buying mobile speed cameras and implementing them like this. It's a question of priorities and I think they've got them all wrong. Which is the worst crime 35 in a 30 or breaking and entering - I know what I think - I would hope you think the same way, but your colleagues in Lancashire obviously have a different view.
Ever been stabbed in the back whilst arresting someone for domestic violence by the woman your trying to help. No I didn't think so.
Try addressing the core of some of the issues I raise. You say speed traps are a very small part of policing. Fine, but why then in the last month have I seen speed traps in about ten different locations and in the same time no policemen walking the beat in my area. Don't tell me it's because they don't need to as vandalism and petty theft are rife, I wonder if that could be because no policemen walk the beat - hmmmm!!
Anyway I'll leave it here before I get any more angry. Thanks to all the posters with ideas for writing to my MP etc. I might just do some of that, problem is I work six days a week and a lot of evenings as well so time is not something I have a lot of. I promise I will do something though if Nathan here is anything to go by I think I'm already wasting my time.
Regards,
tiggers.
[Edited by tiggers - 2/28/2002 5:24:56 PM]
28 February 2002, 07:12 PM
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Tiggers
Thanks for the reply.
Being able to patronise someone was never a skill I posessed in abundance. Unfortunately I have first hand experience of people spreading how they got caught doing 31 mph where simple checking proved they were doing speeds far in excess of that. The ticket your friend got doing 35mph is outside ACPO policy anyway for a start. 10% of the speed limit + 2mph is 35mph so booking should not start til 36mph. I would advise your freind to point that out. 36 or even 40 mph is not OTT at certain times I personally dont give tickets until 45 and only report for court at 60mph+ in 30's. It is also a well known fact that if someone has a good experience with the Police they tell 2 people but if its bad they tell 10 who are liable to tell a further 10.
Im sure they would 
Unfortunately catching people is only half the battle. You really need to be complaining about the courts as well. When you can get off with Murder, Rape, Burglary etc because of a error in procedure. Such as not giving the offender a cup of tea before being interviewed, so they rule the interview as oppresive so un-admissable just before the jury hear them admitting it. Then something is wrong.
Offenders know the system and so do there solicitors who pick up on these technicalities. Out of 100 % of case files submitted to the CPS well over half are dropped before court. Out of the remaining over half of those are dropped at court. I'm pretty sure only around 25% of cases ever go the distance.
Punishment is also a problem. If you commit a burglary and get away with £5000.00 worth of property what do you get at court? Community service or a conditional discharge. Where is the punishment in that? All this care in the community rubbish makes me want to puke. If you screw someones house 3 times you should go to prison for life. The only trouble with this is that there are too many people complaining about the human rights of these people. What about the human rights of the people burgled.
I dont care what anyone says if punishment was as harsh as the offence then people would not re-offend. If they did then they would be locked away.
I'm not complaning just pointing out that we dont all sit in the canteen all day polishing our radar guns. I love my job and really thats all that matters to me. Along with the huge pension
Damn I've prattled on. I'm sure we could argue all day on this subject. If you wanted to get away from all these speed traps you could always move to Kent..lol.
Regards
Nathan..
Thanks for the reply.
Being able to patronise someone was never a skill I posessed in abundance. Unfortunately I have first hand experience of people spreading how they got caught doing 31 mph where simple checking proved they were doing speeds far in excess of that. The ticket your friend got doing 35mph is outside ACPO policy anyway for a start. 10% of the speed limit + 2mph is 35mph so booking should not start til 36mph. I would advise your freind to point that out. 36 or even 40 mph is not OTT at certain times I personally dont give tickets until 45 and only report for court at 60mph+ in 30's. It is also a well known fact that if someone has a good experience with the Police they tell 2 people but if its bad they tell 10 who are liable to tell a further 10.
Interesting use of an uppercase 'P' there - I bet some psychologists would have a field day with that!
Unfortunately catching people is only half the battle. You really need to be complaining about the courts as well. When you can get off with Murder, Rape, Burglary etc because of a error in procedure. Such as not giving the offender a cup of tea before being interviewed, so they rule the interview as oppresive so un-admissable just before the jury hear them admitting it. Then something is wrong.
Offenders know the system and so do there solicitors who pick up on these technicalities. Out of 100 % of case files submitted to the CPS well over half are dropped before court. Out of the remaining over half of those are dropped at court. I'm pretty sure only around 25% of cases ever go the distance.
Punishment is also a problem. If you commit a burglary and get away with £5000.00 worth of property what do you get at court? Community service or a conditional discharge. Where is the punishment in that? All this care in the community rubbish makes me want to puke. If you screw someones house 3 times you should go to prison for life. The only trouble with this is that there are too many people complaining about the human rights of these people. What about the human rights of the people burgled.
I dont care what anyone says if punishment was as harsh as the offence then people would not re-offend. If they did then they would be locked away.
No, but then I haven't joined the police have I - you must know that's a risk you take when you join up. It's like being in the army and complaining because someone is shooting at you during a conflict/war.
Damn I've prattled on. I'm sure we could argue all day on this subject. If you wanted to get away from all these speed traps you could always move to Kent..lol.
Regards
Nathan..
28 February 2002, 08:56 PM
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Nathan,
Thanks for the reply. A lot of the points you raise are valid especially regarding the courts, but my real question his how can the likes of me do something to change this situation. I agree that you guys must feel what's the point in catching someone as they'll get no real punishment and that's a bad situation so what can we do to ensure the courst carry out harsher sentencing.
People on here say vote Labour out, but they got voted in partly on the back of promises of better law and order and the previous lot were no better so what can we do.
Regarding the 35 in a 30 if my mate wishes to challenge that he will presumably have to do it in court and what guarantees is there that Lancashire constabulary don't just say we have different guidelines and anyway guidelines are only guidelines so tough? None I would think.
Anyway must dash, got work to do,
Thanks again for the reply,
tiggers.
Thanks for the reply. A lot of the points you raise are valid especially regarding the courts, but my real question his how can the likes of me do something to change this situation. I agree that you guys must feel what's the point in catching someone as they'll get no real punishment and that's a bad situation so what can we do to ensure the courst carry out harsher sentencing.
People on here say vote Labour out, but they got voted in partly on the back of promises of better law and order and the previous lot were no better so what can we do.
Regarding the 35 in a 30 if my mate wishes to challenge that he will presumably have to do it in court and what guarantees is there that Lancashire constabulary don't just say we have different guidelines and anyway guidelines are only guidelines so tough? None I would think.
Anyway must dash, got work to do,
Thanks again for the reply,
tiggers.
28 February 2002, 10:24 PM
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I used to live in a Lancashire and found real problems with the policing too - A complete lack of interest in several robberies (one violent and one where we trapped the theif in the shop and he was waving a knife around, took them 30 minutes to turn up even though the station was 2 mins away [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]) of the of thousands of pounds of computer stock.
Yet the same year all four of us in the shop had at least one speeding ticket [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img][img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]
Anyway the police around here seem little better, but at least they're not as bad on traffic policing. No idea how to change things, went through the whole letters to local council/MP etc thing in Lancashire to no avail.
- Jon
Yet the same year all four of us in the shop had at least one speeding ticket [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img][img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]
Anyway the police around here seem little better, but at least they're not as bad on traffic policing. No idea how to change things, went through the whole letters to local council/MP etc thing in Lancashire to no avail.
- Jon
28 February 2002, 11:30 PM
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Tiggers
Your friend would probably get along way complaining to the Inspector of the traffic dept that booked him. ACPO policy should not really ever be broken. If I was booked at 35mph in a 30 then honestly I would fight it to the bitter end. If that meant going to court then fine. Especially if it was in the Scoob and I had changed wheel/tyre sizes as this could throw the speedo out that far. I believe CPS would take one look at the case and drop it. Especially if he was represented. I'll dig out the policy from work tomorrow night and Email it to you if you want it.
As far as changing punishments I dont think that is ever going to happen in our lifetime. Sorry to be pesemistic but until a Judge or Politician is murdered raped or burgled then it just won't happen. There are too many civil liberties groups intervening. The other problem is that courts are not allowed to hear about previous convictions etc. The little burglar sh1te head stands in court in his nicely pressed suit with legal aid solictiors and the magistrates fall for it time after time.
I recently arrested a male who GBH'd someone on the street whilst on bail for another GBH. He went to court and the magistrates bailed him again. That evening he ABH'd someone, went back to court and you guessed it bailed him again. He then failed to appear at court for a hearing and the magistrates didn't even give us a warrant to detain him with a power of arrest. When we saw him on the street we had to bail him agian. I'm pretty sure he never showed up and is wanted again. The trouble is with this little w4nker is he knows how to play the system and he knows that whatever he does his solicitor will find a way to get him bail.
If he was remanded then the remand period would come of his prison sentence anyway and at double time. I.E Four months on remand with better conditions would = 8 months off your sentence.
I wish I knew a way of changing the system I really do but I don't. It doesn't matter which party we have in charge they are all lying cheating barstewrds who are only in it for themselves.
All the best
Nathan..
Your friend would probably get along way complaining to the Inspector of the traffic dept that booked him. ACPO policy should not really ever be broken. If I was booked at 35mph in a 30 then honestly I would fight it to the bitter end. If that meant going to court then fine. Especially if it was in the Scoob and I had changed wheel/tyre sizes as this could throw the speedo out that far. I believe CPS would take one look at the case and drop it. Especially if he was represented. I'll dig out the policy from work tomorrow night and Email it to you if you want it.
As far as changing punishments I dont think that is ever going to happen in our lifetime. Sorry to be pesemistic but until a Judge or Politician is murdered raped or burgled then it just won't happen. There are too many civil liberties groups intervening. The other problem is that courts are not allowed to hear about previous convictions etc. The little burglar sh1te head stands in court in his nicely pressed suit with legal aid solictiors and the magistrates fall for it time after time.
I recently arrested a male who GBH'd someone on the street whilst on bail for another GBH. He went to court and the magistrates bailed him again. That evening he ABH'd someone, went back to court and you guessed it bailed him again. He then failed to appear at court for a hearing and the magistrates didn't even give us a warrant to detain him with a power of arrest. When we saw him on the street we had to bail him agian. I'm pretty sure he never showed up and is wanted again. The trouble is with this little w4nker is he knows how to play the system and he knows that whatever he does his solicitor will find a way to get him bail.
If he was remanded then the remand period would come of his prison sentence anyway and at double time. I.E Four months on remand with better conditions would = 8 months off your sentence.
I wish I knew a way of changing the system I really do but I don't. It doesn't matter which party we have in charge they are all lying cheating barstewrds who are only in it for themselves.
All the best
Nathan..
01 March 2002, 01:45 PM
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Nathan, I honestly hope your gaffer doesent read Scoobynet!
Seiously, it is nice to meet a copper who is friendly, talkative and wants to get on.
We should have a whip round and have him stuffed.:
Sorry, I'm off back to the hutch...
astraboy.
Seiously, it is nice to meet a copper who is friendly, talkative and wants to get on.
We should have a whip round and have him stuffed.
:Sorry, I'm off back to the hutch...
astraboy.
02 March 2002, 03:01 AM
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Tiggers, suggestion for what you could do about it - you could become a copper or a politician????!!!!
Although a law-abiding citizen, I dont have too much time for the Police/police. After all, I got mugged once and they didnt even give me a cup of coffee even though the muggers had nicked my wallet so I had no money for their poxy Klix machine! However, remember that if the world was perfect the Police/police would catch every criminal. Actually, if the world was perfect, there wouldnt be any crime!
In my job at work all I hear from the people I have to deal with is moaning, moaning, moaning. Sometimes I believe there are more and more people these days moaning for most of their lives than in the past.
If you are really serious about this then act a bit more positively and YOU do something about it. If you are just someone who moans about an extra penny on a pint or getting caught for speeding then in all honesty I have better things to do then continue to discuss this so if you moan back at me please dont take offence if I dont reply. (Also, I couldnt give a damn if people are 0.1 mph above speed limit or 80mph above speed limit, either way they are still speeding. I've never heard of someone accused of murder saying they only killed them a little bit!!)
Of course if you have just had a really crap day at work and have come on here to rid yourself of a bad mood - fair enough - I do it all the time!!!!
Although a law-abiding citizen, I dont have too much time for the Police/police. After all, I got mugged once and they didnt even give me a cup of coffee even though the muggers had nicked my wallet so I had no money for their poxy Klix machine! However, remember that if the world was perfect the Police/police would catch every criminal. Actually, if the world was perfect, there wouldnt be any crime!
In my job at work all I hear from the people I have to deal with is moaning, moaning, moaning. Sometimes I believe there are more and more people these days moaning for most of their lives than in the past.
If you are really serious about this then act a bit more positively and YOU do something about it. If you are just someone who moans about an extra penny on a pint or getting caught for speeding then in all honesty I have better things to do then continue to discuss this so if you moan back at me please dont take offence if I dont reply. (Also, I couldnt give a damn if people are 0.1 mph above speed limit or 80mph above speed limit, either way they are still speeding. I've never heard of someone accused of murder saying they only killed them a little bit!!)
Of course if you have just had a really crap day at work and have come on here to rid yourself of a bad mood - fair enough - I do it all the time!!!!
02 March 2002, 03:44 PM
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pedestrian,
Read my f**king post - I AM ASKING PEOPLE WHAT I CAN DO ABOUT IT!
Honestly if some people were as eager to read as they are to write, still I suppose it's only natural that most people like the sound of their own voice!
As far as there being no difference between being 0.1 mph over the limit or 80mph over the limit I think your argument is far too simplistic, but there you go. After all why does the law decree a greater fine and points rising to disqualification depending on how great the margin is between the speed limit and the speed you are recorded at. I think you'll find it's because the law considers 110mph in a 30 limit is more dangerous than 31mph in a 30 limit which to anyone other than yourself it obviously is.
Regards,
tiggers.
If you are really serious about this then act a bit more positively and YOU do something about it.
Honestly if some people were as eager to read as they are to write, still I suppose it's only natural that most people like the sound of their own voice!
As far as there being no difference between being 0.1 mph over the limit or 80mph over the limit I think your argument is far too simplistic, but there you go. After all why does the law decree a greater fine and points rising to disqualification depending on how great the margin is between the speed limit and the speed you are recorded at. I think you'll find it's because the law considers 110mph in a 30 limit is more dangerous than 31mph in a 30 limit which to anyone other than yourself it obviously is.
Regards,
tiggers.
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