m1cks

After spending lot of time on motorways, it seems that motorway drivers standards seem to be getting worse, especially at weekends when the "non-motorway users" come out in force. Do you think it would help if cars were allowed to undertake as in other countrys or do you think it is too unsafe? This is to stop the "I'm doing 70 and won't let anybody past because it is MY job to uphold the law" brigade.
Also, do you think there should be some type of extra test to get a "motorway" classification added to a licence, either theory or practical? You would not be able to drive on them unless you had this class on your licence. Admittedly, it would be hard to police effectively.
Any other suggestions or input?

corradoboy

As a driving instructor I do think a second practical test for motorway driving would be a good idea, allowing for some tuition on motorways once acquiring what would be your Pt.1 practical. However, you can argue that mile-for-mile, the motorways are our safest roads, but driving on them is also very easy given the lack of hazards (minimal junctions, no pedestrians or crossings, constant flow etc) so it is not a true reflection of the quality of the average driver on them.

I wouldn't like to see undertaking become acceptable, but rather have a vigilant and discerning traffic police force able to observe, advise and admonish those whom exhibit poor driving. The main justification for needing to undertake would be that others hog lanes instead of driving considerately and properly, returning to the left lane when not overtaking themselves. Lazy, selfish and arrogant driving is more and more commonplace as pride (in ones abilities), consideration (for others) and respect (for the law and others) dissolves from British society. The gross overpopulation of this tiny island doesn't help either.

m1cks

I'm also un-decided on the undertaking issue, as I believe if motorway driving standards improved, there would be no need to undertake, as drivers would adhere to driving in the inside lane unless overtaking.
I also agree with having more enforcement of existing rules, but the reality is the police forces are already stretched and traffic units seem to be one of the first to undergo budget cuts. You would think monies raised from traffic offences should be used to increase spending on dedicated roads policing units, but we all know that in reality, it goes towards the local camera partnership, with often very little to show for the revenue recieved.

wrx-ian

I was on a motorway last sunday doing 70 on the inside lane, car is middle lane prob doing 60ish overtaking nothing showing no sign of pulling over, so i just gentle go past him. Only thing was there was a police car behind me. He just followed me past him and think he may of gave him some sort of signal as he then pulled to the inside lane. Police car followed me to next junction and pulled off motorway and i just carried on.

gpssti4

iTrader: (6)

If everyone obeyed the rules there would be no need to undertake.

If you could undertake then it only means that you have to be more vigilant checking both sides for approaching traffic, rather than 'just' checking that the left is clear (which people already struggle to do!)

The only time that it's okay to undertake (IMHO) is when traffic is doing less than 70 and the middle or inside lane is moving faster than the others.

JonMc

iTrader: (51)

I did an extra 2-hour lesson with my intsructor after passing my test, 95% of it on the motorway. Best thing I ever did

Undertaking is just too dangerous, it is another mirror for the poor driver not to look in before he moves, which he does shortly before signalling.

I think these average speed cameras could be put to better use by monitoring those who habitually cruise in the overtaking lanes when there is no traffic to overtake, oops, my mistake, there is a car 7-miles up the road who clearly looks like he is travelling 1mph slower than me

corradoboy

Depending on the coppers mood, as long as you don't move into a lane on your left, pass a vehicle, then move back out, it isn't technically an undertake. It can simply be that the traffic in the lane your in is moving more quickly. It's a grey area, but when in queuing traffic you are allowed to move past vehicles in lanes to your right, and similarly when vehicles are signalling to turn right.

cookstar

iTrader: (6)

It's not just motorways, the A406 is the worst road i have ever known for this.

100% agree that you should be tested separately for the motorways, and you should lose this additional license if you don't adhere to the rules i.e KEEP LEFT WHEN NOT OVERTAKING.

Phantom_Flan_Flinger

Since the M1 junctions 6-10 have reopened up to 4 lanes, I've noticed the middle lane crusers have promoted themselves onto lane 3 now.

Seems to be especially worse at the weekends and certainly in the early morning. Coming to work this morning (I do junctions 11-5) at 6:30am, there were quite a few who quite happily plod along in lanes 2 or 3 with nothing in the inside lane.

I have to admit to passing them on the inside sometimes.

Dave.

CHRIS_D

I remember a few years back driving up the A34 from Newbury to the M40 and onto Milton Keynes. There was a women driving in a green escort at approx 60 mph, she drove the entire distance as stated without moving from the outside lane - at all. I was in no rush so out of curiosity I followed at a distance behind for the duration, inthe left hand lane, overtaking slower traffic and pulling back in when necessary.

The women was completely oblivious to any other road users, despite others flashing, beeping horns and signalling her to move over she didnt budge. Clearly there were faster traffic but they just undertook her in the end.

Terminator X

iTrader: (7)

I undertake middle lane hoggers as a matter of course. If THEY drove correctly then it would be impossible to undertake

TX.

RyanSTI

iTrader: (1)

what about double undertakes?, somtimes on motorways sitting in the slow lane doing 70, is quicker than the fast lane.

mart360

Why such hang ups about undertaking?

if you drive abroad its overtaking

hell,? is it that hard to look over either shoulder depending on the lane change required?

or is it because we have such poor lane discipline, it "may" be perceived as dangerous

to the middle lane hoggers? lol

Mart

cookstar

iTrader: (6)

I was laughing about the very same thing, i drive from J6 to 1 and notice that they just float over to the 3rd lane, and sit there.

richs2891

I will admit to occasionally undertaking - mostly out of sheer frustration at either some idiot sat in lane 2 doing 65 when lane 1 is clear - or as suggested above some idiot sat in lane 3 at 70 mph holding the traffic up and lane 1 & lane 2 is clear.
Its always done with full beam and use of the horn.
More driver tuition inc extra lesson for motorway driving is needed but I think it needs to be continuous driver eduction coupled with more effective policing on the roads where people displaying poor standards can be educated as far too many people just get on a motorway and get into lane 2 and then disengage their brains !.
Had a classic yesterday on the way to Preston, managed two rings with beam and horn before managed to get Mr & Mrs dopey sat in lane 2 to wake up and move over to lane 1
which was completely empty.

Richard

LC Geezer

My treatment for middle lane hoggers is to move out from lane 1 to 3 with lights and horns blaring and then cut back in to lane 1. Scare the crap out of them and make them think lane 2 (or 3) is a dangerous place to be. Obvioulsy traffic conditions sometimes make this impractical.

MattW

Not just motorways, there is a 40mph Dual Carriageway running through the area I live (anyone knows Swindon am talking about the Northern Expansion) and people sit in the outside lane at 35-40mph the entire length.

Unfortunately it could easily be a 50 so many people do that.

Removed.

I obviosly don't really use motorways, apart from when I'm over for hols, and as an ousider I think I can honestly say that the general standard of driving on UK motorways is pretty poor. Lane discipline, no indicating, following too close, and something I spotted the last time I was over, the "TomTom Conga", where everyone is speeding, their satnavs etc warn of a speed camera, so everyone suddenly slows down until they're passed the camera, then accelerates, rinse, repeat.

I've said it before, there are so many cameras, signs, lane markings, and other road furniture that if you're not familiar with the area you spend so much time NOT watching the road you make mistakes and are actually causing a hazard by trying to take it all in and worry about all the cameras.

I believe in France, once you've passed your test, you have to have tuition before being allowed on Autoroutes.

Wurzel

iTrader: (1)

Motorway driving is part of the driving lesson here in Germany, you quite often see learners on the autobahn. The good thing here is you are not allowed to be a learner with your mates/parents in the car, everytime you drive a car you have to be with a qualified instructor until you pass your test.

cookstar

iTrader: (6)

This problem does seem to be worse in the UK, every other country I have driven in seems to have a better standard of Motorway driving.

Also if someone is in the fast lane then a quick flash of an indicator seems to move them over very quickly, and they tend to wave a quick apology as well.

Leslie

It is quite true that we often see people on the motorways who obviously do not understand the correct way to use the lanes.

Undertaking them at speed is against the law. Overtaking on the left in this country is only permitted under certain circumstances and travelling at motorway speeds is not one of them. If you do have a driver sitting in the middle or outer lane at a slower speed than 70 mph it cannot be denied that it is dangerous to overtake him on the left. He has a right to expect that he can pull in to the left lane providing it is clear and not to find someone overtaking him at a speed appreciably greater than his.

If he is in the outer lane at 70 mph while overtaking,even if it takes a while, he is within the law, and those who admit to overtaking at a greater speed on his left because they are impatient, and consider that they have the right to break the speed limit, are breaking the law and can be considered to be driving dangerously. If caught at it, they deserve to get done for it. No member of the public has the God given right to break the law! Undertaking is not big or clever!

I do agree that those learning to drive should certainly be given tuition in motorway driving. Its not that difficult of course but it would at least ensure that everyone understands the somewhat different conventions associated wit it.

Les

m1cks

With all respect Les, with the above scenario, if he is overtaking somebody, it would be impossible to undertake him, as there will be a slower car in his N/S lane.
If it is possible to undartake him, then his N/S lane would have to be empty, in which case, he is comitting an offence.

Carmar

You can tell the higher standard of motorway driving in Germany, people move over without hassle and seem far more aware of speeds, I enjoyed driving on the German motorways but the Belgium motorways are another story, tailgating, people not moving over, no awareness of speed and plenty of crashes, I thought I was in the UK!

richs2891

Sorry Leslie but what you have written come across (hopefully unintentionally) as I Will go into lane 2 or 3 at 70 mph and sit their while I slowly creep up on the car 2 miles in front that is driving at the same speed. !
Doesn't the highway code states that should return to lane 1 as soon as is safely possibly after an overtake situation ?
A lot of people do have a complete lack of understanding about speed, measuring speed, time taken to get back up to speed etc, which is probably where a fair percentage of the UK's driving problems in particular come from.
Richard

DaveD

iTrader: (2)

The main problem with these middle lane hoggers is that they have no observation skills. There's no point rolling up behind them, flashing lights and blaring horns, because the only piece of road they are looking at is the 100 yards directly in front of them.

I quite often see cars pulling onto an empty motorway, straight into lane 2. I almost crashed into the back of one a few years ago - I pulled out into lane 2 to allow a car onto the motorway, while another car was in lane 3, just about to overtake me. Numpty who had just joined the motorway pulled straight into lane 2 (without indicating!) and I had to abruptly loose about 30mph of speed!

There should be more tuition on this as quite often a busy motorway will have virtually no traffic in lane 1 becuase people don't have the confidence to pull over and then filter back into traffic when they need to overtake something.......

Stealth

iTrader: (4)

There should certainly be more tutition for new drivers which includes Motorway time but also pure observational skills.... Like police training!

It's been said before and I think SPEC's should be smart enoughto tell if you have been in the middle lane for a period of time and determine if they could possibly have passed anything in that time and if not, Fine them!

corradoboy

Right, that's that sorted then. Tuition with non-qualified persons to be banned and motorway lessons. All money for me

dunx

iTrader: (3)

My last trip across the M62 included an ancient muppet in a "febble carrier" in lane 4 doing 60 mph !

Sorry but I passed at 70 mph in the inside lane..... one of three empty lanes available at the time.

dunx

SVXNUT

As a courier, I will always undertake and give the courier wave to the offending lane hog.
Sick and fed up of the pigs just sitting there ignoring all the law breakers, but the minute one of us couriers does something wrong. On come the blues and twos.
Got a bullett cam fitted now in the cab focused on the windscreen and Satnav (proof of approx. speed). When I was pulled up for undertaking, I replayed the video to the Traffic cop and explained that if they issued a ticket I would take it court on the grounds of discrimination, as they had blatently ignored the lane hogs and other law breakers. The officer just let me go with a warning. If all the drivers on the road did this it would make things a lot fairer.
As Scoob drivers we all suffer from the revenue generating ***** discriminating against us, over the repmobiles on a day to day business as well.

SVXNUT

Awaits flamethrowers.