Scoob Fae Ork

The reason i'm asking this is because i was caught speeding today (which i hold my hand's up to) but the way the caught me i feel was wrong.
When i was in the back of the Police car i kept thinking to myself "where were they, I did not see them" for a good reason.
After speaking to my friend who had seen them he told me where they had been and it was not even on the same road as me.
They were on a residential side road and at least 300yrds up it (not including the distance I had travelled along the main road AWAY from them)

I'd just like to check as I had always been lead to believe they had to be parked in full view of motorists and any car they were tracking had to be travelling towards them

tanyatriangles

iTrader: (2)

I would suggest a visit to pepipoo, PePiPoo: Helping the motorist to get justice, but I'd ALSO suggest that the vast majority of people who take on the scammers lose, since the magistrates are IN the partnerships..the dice is loaded against you.

IF you go to court and lose, you'll get costs against you, a £15 victim surcharge and possibly a BIGGER fine and MORE points.

MY advice would be to take it on the chin.

Dedrater

That's a bad attitude though, you can't just roll over and take these things in the ****, I believe everyone should exercise there rights as UK citizens and make them prove the alleged offense as defined by UK law.

After all, its just a cash cow for the Government which 85% of motorist don't agree with.

tanyatriangles

iTrader: (2)

Agreed Dedrater, but if you read my post carefully, you'll see that the REASON I advise taking it on the chin is to avoid becoming an even BIGGER cash cow.....

Oh......and they no longer HAVE to prove you did it, YOU have to prove you didn't

Bliar's Britain......you couldn't make it up

billythekid

To answer the OPs quesion... the site used has to be suitable, in that the operator can view the vehicle for long enough to form the opinion that the veh is speeding. After that they can sit almost anywhere... motorway bridges, side roads, behind verges etcetcetc. HTH

s70rjw

iTrader: (2)

Sound advice.
Once the offficer suspects the vehicle is travelling at speed the Pro Laser or similar confirms or denies this.
Lots of ill informed other rubbish posted which is best ignored. Sorry to hear of your unfortunate brush with the law. Bob

billyray911

iTrader: (4)

As above.It is easier to monitor vehicles travelling towards you-for purposes of stopping and issuing any E/FPN.However,most if not all 'guns' can monitor traffic in both directions and at massive distances.
Most Police are NOT interested in the cash cow argument,that tends to be the responsibility of the local authority
Sites are picked mainly by traffic officers with a good knowledge of the area and due to number of fatal and serious accidents and complaints from people who actually live in the area.
The only other alternative is consult with a solicitor who will judge your case on its own merits and have your day out in court.Best of luck...

Timwinner

iTrader: (3)

If you are not happy with it my best advice is to go to court but as for them monitoring another road, Thats is irrelevant. They can sit at a 6 way junction if they wanted, As long as the area in which you got pulled was safe then its a fair cop.

If you go to court you stand to get about double (worst case) the points and fine you got at the road side.
If you can afford to I would take the points and invest in a good laser detector for the future.
Its not a nice feeling but its a public interest prosecution so you would have to go some to get it overturned, If you did it would need to be a technicality as it sounds like the surcs are legit.

BOB.T

I was chatting to a regular copper about speeding the other day. I'd gone down the village and my mind was elsewhere and for the first time EVER (genuinely!!!) I hit about 38mph, it's a 30 limit. Then I saw the van with said copper holding a speed gun, naturally I slowed down!! I stopped and went to chat to him, mainly cos I thought he'd got me and I might be able to sweet talk my way out of it!

As far as I know, there hasn't been an accident on this road in the last 5, 5.5 years but they have to police it as all the locals complain about people speeding. He told me that most of the people he stops are locals! He also told me that unless he gets you at more than 40mph, he won't do you for it, phew! All in all, a thoroughly decent chap I have to admit.

He did say it was a different ball game with traffic officers though, they are targeted to catch 20 speeders per month where he had no targets at all...

gpssti4

iTrader: (6)

Didn't think that it was about 'targets'?

Scoob Fae Ork

Taking this to court is not an option in Orkney as the judge up here is about as straight up as a curly wurly. I had a look at where they were sitting last night and they would not have seen me for more than 5 sec plus they were a totally different angle to the road i was on which will put off the reading. I'm thinking about making a complaint about this and the fact he threatened me over my exhaust AGAIN which is the Prodrive fitment he told me that just because Prodrive makes it does not make it legal and as he crawled under my car to look he was telling me there is no B,S Kite mark on it and there is actually a stamp saying NOT FOR HIGHWAY USE on the back box which he could not find.

RyanSTI

iTrader: (1)

its always been about targets, i got caught on the m6 toll, road was empty, but thats besides the point, once the **** had done me, he simply drove off at the next junction, if he wanted to police the roads surely he would have stayed there after i left.?

Terminator X

iTrader: (7)

I cut an article out of the paper a few weeks ago that states:

"Solicitor Conrad Gadd says all radar & laser speed cameras are illegal because the devices have to be approved by Parliament after a law in 1992. He claims approval was never given."

If this chap wins this case then it would open floodgates to everyone who's ever been convicted since 1992 ... including me

TX.

Leslie

I don't think that the speedcam or operator need to be in sight of the drivers, but they should have a notice along the road somewhere warning that speedcams may well be in use.

I read somewhere a while ago that they are even considering repainting the gatso's so that they are more difficult to see!

Les

bish667

iTrader: (1)

I got done for speeding lately and the police car was not in full view.
Solicitor raised this point in court and they pretty much said tough we can sit where we want.

Scoob Fae Ork

Does anyone know where on the internet we can find the Police speed trap procedures ?

billyray911

iTrader: (4)

As your'e in Orkney,make sure that any advice taken should apply to scottish law.Law and procedures are fundementally different than in the UK.

Leslie

Speedcams have been shown to be too unreliable and inaccurate to be used in all fairness for criminalising motorists.

Les

speedking

x2 as he was clocked from the rear. Don't know of any 360° detectors

Paul3446

If you believe that you'll believe anything!

Where I live there have been 3 fatal accidents in the last 5 years on a stretch of 60mph road, so where do the police have their mobile camera site? About half a mile up the road just after it becomes 40mph, just where they'll generate the most revenue!

Scoob Fae Ork

Going by this the PC that stopped me broke about every rule

14. Laser/Optical Speedmeters
14.1 Introduction
Laser/optical devices are capable of being manufactured for hand-held, vehicle mounted (when stationary) or roadside use in both attended and unattended/automatic mode, with or without camera attachments.
The handheld devices, on occasions, have the appearance of a firearm. It is therefore important that this fact is borne in mind when operating such units. The operator must be clearly visible to the public and the target vehicle throughout the check. Devices should be operated in accordance with manufacturers instructions.
There are two automatic/tripod-mounted devices Type Approved – namely the Autovelox 104/C-2 and Leica XV2. Neither have a secondary check and so although automatic, they are both approved only for attended actively operated use.
The Autovelox operates from a tripod at the roadside or mounted on the rear window of a parked vehicle and point two laser beams down on to the nearest traffic lane. It operates similarly to a sensor device, detecting when a vehicle reflects the beam instead of the road surface.

The Leica XV2 operates on a tripod (but may be hand held) automatically using a pulsed laser beam in a similar way to hand held laser. However the beam is diverged and the vehicle measured in a limited distance window, starting when the vehicle is first detected at a distance of 50m or less. The vehicle is not tracked even if the device is hand-held. It is used on approaching traffic only and video recorded.

14.2 Hand-held
The hand-held device functions by emitting pulses of infrared laser beams, which are targeted at the vehicle whose speed is being measured.
Measurement of speed is performed by aiming the device at the target vehicle in the area around the registration plate and where necessary pressing the trigger or button. It is important that the beam is held steady on the target area to avoid any 'slip factor'. When sufficient pulses of light have been emitted and have returned, within the in built tolerances and checks, then a reading is displayed on the device. The speed recording can be locked into the display by activating the trigger/button in accordance with manufacturer’s instructions where necessary.
Devices are capable of recording approaching or receding vehicle speeds, this fact being clearly differentiated by the speedmeter.
To assist the operator’s identification of the target vehicle the meters have electronic sighting devices (currently either ‘red dot’ telescopic or ‘reticule sight’ on head up displays), together with audible 'locked-on' tones on some devices.
Operators should bear in mind the device confirms and corroborates their prior personal observations and opinion.
Certain hand-held laser speed detection devices have the ability to establish speeds of vehicles by calculating the time it takes a vehicle to travel over a known distance whilst in the time/distance mode.
The time, distance function must be operated in accordance with manufacturer’s instructions and this Code of Practice.
Laser or optical hand-held devices may be used from within a vehicle provided there are no radio transmissions during the measurement. Any GSM phones must be turned off and any TETRA radios turned off unless they have a transmission inhibit switch, which is activated.
The beam must not be projected through glass or mirrors.
The power source must not be taken directly from any vehicle but always from the type approved independent supply.
14.3 Range
Hand-held devices are capable of measuring vehicle speeds from a minimum range of 50 feet to a maximum of 2,000 feet and recording speeds from a minimum of 5mph to a maximum of 155mph. Operators should avoid carrying out measurements for enforcement purposes at the extremity of the measurement field. Clearly the steadiness of sighting of the hand-held device affects operating range, but does not affect accuracy. In any case the device will not display any speed reading unless a proper 'lock-on' has occurred.
Heavy rain, spray or mist may reduce the range of the laser but will not effect the speed measurement.
14.4 Cosine/Angular Effect
The hand-held laser will only record the true speed if it is directed along the path of the target vehicle. The vehicle may be either approaching or receding.
If the laser is positioned at an angle to the path of the target vehicle, the displayed speed is less than its actual speed. This reduction in speed is proportional to the cosine of the angle.
The angular effect or cosine error is always in favour of the target vehicle, whether the device is operated in the horizontal or vertical plane.
When operating hand-held devices from the roadside the operator should be within 10 feet of the edge of the carriageway and beyond the minimum operating range (i.e. 50 feet).
When operating hand-held devices from an overbridge, the operator must stand where possible over the centre of the carriageway being checked. In respect of minimum range, the operator must carry out a height check from the level of operation to the road surface directly below then multiply this by a factor of ten. This figure becomes the minimum distance for operation.
Health and Safety. Never point a laser speedmeter at a civil or military aircraft, vessel or armoured vehicle. Many military aircraft, vehicles or vessels have target acquisition detectors, some of which can initiate automatic counter measures.

austinwrx

I think yr screwed sadly- I mean everyone will know everyone on Orkney.............. I guess when you got yr car, for the cops its just been a matter of time really. prob never get a chance to use the gun- yr unlucky day.

I must admit having been to virtually all the islands, west and north- local lads tend to drive at full tilt all the time on tiny island roads, because they know the roads so well !!!

good luck to you though if you fight it and all the best.

speedking

What device was your speed measured with?

The article above relates to optical / laser. Were you done by a radar gun which is different?

This site has lots of info, although it may be out of date.

Good luck.