tanyatriangles

iTrader: (2)

No, not particularly , I'm afraid.

Look closely at the picture of the train: yes, that's right, "Hitachi" a Japanese company.

The whole thing has been poorly thought out.

First the government puts out lies about diesels being more efficient than electrics, in a bid to derail the moves to electrify more lines, then, when this comes up, they INSIST that the trains must be able to run on both electrified and non-electrified lines, having equal performance on both

[Since then, they have changed their minds about electrification, (could have something to do with the fact that the rail lobby was royally p*ssed at them for refusing to electrify any more lines in Britain on cost grounds, then signing off on twp projects in..............yep, Scotland, signed off by one Alistair Darling as Transport minister)]

At least three bidders to build the new trains immediately dropped out: too expensive to build to a price, all new technology needed, and FAR too difficult to keep running with the total overload of mixed, complicated technology. Remember that maintemance and keeping the trains running is a HUGE part of any contract in early years. NO other country in the WORLD afaik, and CERTAINLY not in Europe, mixes electric and diesel in the same propulsion unit: too heavy for a start.........why would you want to lug a 70 tonne diesel engine around when your power is coming from the wires?

So we were left with Hitachi, and Siemens/Alsthom/Bombardier.

The former, Japanese, the latter, European with British manufacturing plants.

Hitachi won on price, (AND the fact that they had already agreed to supply a fleet of trains for the North kent route of the CTRL at a knock-down price.......what a surprise),...........but 95% of the work will be carried out in Japan etc and only final construction, painting etc, and maintenance to be done in the UK. The jobs created will not be anywhere NEAR those in Japan, and will be relativley lowly skilled and shorter term. FEW British companies will benefit from this as British technology isn't being used. And YES it DOES exist as does the French, and German equivalent.

Anyone who wants to read the problems in depth, I can recommend Modern Railways, January and February issues for 2009, the Article is called "Informed Sources".

Don't read it if you are a big Labour supporter, I'm afraid that Labour and DfT don't come out of it looking good

TelBoy

Bring back the Deltics

zip106

One great big **** up, I'm afraid.

Bombardier lost out and through this the operations at Derby will most surely close with hundreds out of jobs.

Believe me, I have a very close contact who is high up the command chain at Bombardier.
Remember Alstom, that other train builder based over here? They closed Washwood Heath due to losing a very large order to a foreign company some years ago.

For the DfT to say it will create 1000's of jobs here, well, that's just bollocks.

Anger as Government awards £7.5bn train contract to Japanese - Times Online

tanyatriangles - I 100% agree with you.

p.s. Alsthom dropped the 'h' many years ago.

Moley

iTrader: (9)

tanyatriangles

iTrader: (2)

Yes, they are trumpeting 12, 000 jobs, but the VAST majority of those will NOT be new jobs, just retained jobs, (which would have been retained WHOEVER got the contract), and any new ones will be short-term with the majority of the work and so the profit, going to Japan.

I knew about Alstom, and if Bombardier go too..........

NOW they are talking a new factory, Leicester, Sheffield or Gateshead.....so that'll be at Tyneside then

And new depots at Doncaster and Leeds........waht's wrong with the existing Neville Hill depot at Leeds, it already wins awards for looking after the hST's and the electrics.

More Labour sh*t......British jobs for British workers? F*ck off Brown you ****!

johnnyroper

i dont think bombardiers derby works will go for a while they are in line to win the contract to supply by continuing to build turbostars after the london midland/overground and chiltern stuff has been delivered.it is part of the extra coaches the gov announced last year to go to first great westerns london thames valley and west routes due to enter service by 2012.

as for the hst's i doubt the comapany i work for will get rid of them for some time as they have spent millions on them in the last 2 years by refurbishing them inside and out and fitting modern MTU diesel engines to the power cars,not sure of exact costs but 1.1million per power car has been mentioned then all the coaches on top of that.i would guess they would use the new stuff when it arrives to supplement existing fleet at first to see how it performs.

farmer1

I was reading a couple of articles from years back when virgin wanted to build a 200mph high speed line and great western where talking about similar stuff. Now we are looking to 2015 when the 125s and 225s will be replaced at great cost but with no real improvement to be honest. As far as I see it they won't be that much quicker, won't be much more clean and comfortable then refurbished 125s and they'll still be overcrowded.

Seems rather simple to me if they want to improve rail and create jobs. Give the green light to more station extensions. Spend money on railway fly overs to replace bottleneck crossing/junctions. Create british jobs to build more carriages. And then finally invest in a mamouth high speed electric network with a suitable gauge for large contains. Ohh yeah and fit the new european in cab-signalling system rather then the one which is about to go out of date.

zip106

Bombardier Derby have only got back orders until 2010.
If they're successful in winning the contract for 120 carriages for the Stanstead line then that'll give them a few more years.

farmer1

Would that be FGW by any chance? I believe the engine's they fitted where designed to meet the next set of emission laws. I'm sure HST will be around being run by one operator or another for trhe next 20 years.

shep ppp

Alstom are building the extra carriges for the 390 fleet in italy then shipping them over here to be fitted at the new depot in Liverpool. As they shut washwood heath and closed the test track at old dalby.

johnnyroper

correct

they do meet emission regulations but that not the only reason they were fitted.
fgw trialled MTU and Paxman VP185'S to see which performed best,the mtu was not only cleaner and quieter but far more reliable hence why they are all fitted with these now.
like you say they will be around for time yet.

johnnyroper

announcement due in april rumour is bombardier will get it because of the british jobs quote by pm.

Nat21 Yeah the HSTs sound rubbish now

I miss the screaming Turbos as they pulled out of the station

dont miss standing at BTM having ear drums bleeding and being choked by the sh1te that come out the exhaust mtu far better but each to there own.

zip106

I remember them upgrading that track for the Virgin Pendolino's they were building.
It runs right along side one of my favourite local restaurants, we used to see the Pendo's trundling by every now and then.

CrisPDuk

I don't

That deafening shriek is not quite so entertaining when the early morning ones are howling past the back of your house


When the Mk3 & Mk4 coaching stock used in the 125s & 225s was developed, British Rails design & research establishment lead the world


Fast forward 30 years and where are we now? Paying a company halfway around the world far to much, for equipment that the people who will operate it have had no say in the specification of. Equipment which will probably end up massively over budget, and in terms of ride & passenger comfort, be inferior to that which it is intended to replace


In the country that invented rail travel, the best we can now manage is to assemble kits of parts designed and made elsewhere

The founding fathers of the Labour Party must be so proud

Funkii Munkii

+1

An exhaust note sexier tham a scoobysport exhaust