Bubba po

You might be able to answer a question for me; How come decent cymbals are so bloody expensive? My young lad's turning out to be a bit of a prodigy on the drums and naturally I want to give him the encouragement of having decent gear, but I've just been browsing online for some pro quality hi-hats and I'm staring down the barrel of £250 minimum for a pair! Has there been a sudden price hike for cymbals recently?

JTaylor

Metal costs more.

Freak

Sounds about right....

Listen to some cheapy ones, then listen to decent ones- there is your reason.

Sabian all the way personally...

ps- nothing wrong with used cymbals- as long as you give them a VERY good going over and check first...

JTaylor

Indeed. They don't even have to be very shiny.

Bubba po

Even used cymbals seem to be scarce. I'm used to paying a fair bit of money - he already has Zildjian 'A' series 15" crash and 20" ride and a 17" 'A' Custom crash but they were around £100 - £120 apiece. There just seems to have been a rapid inflation, recently.

drumsterphil

iTrader: (1)

Most of my money went on cymbals rather than drums - yes, they are expensive but you get what you pay for imo - they simply sound better.

I've since moved onto playing a Roland electronic kit so sold the acoustic kit but have kept the cymbals (all Zildjian - 2 x hi-hats, 4 crashes, 1 ride, 2 china's and 2 splashes!).

Spend the money - your lad won't regret it

MikeCardiff

iTrader: (2)

Decent pro cymbals arent just churned out on a machine like cheap ones - the basic shape is made by machine, then the final shaping / shaving / tuning is done by a real person who has to have years of experience, which is why they sound so much better.

Part of the cost is probably better quality materials ( have seen lots of cheap cymbals crack very quickly ) but also the extra production costs in paying for the hand working they need.

Timwinner

iTrader: (3)

What he said, Believe it or not the development cost that goes into good cymbals in massive.
each cymbal is hung and played for tone before it shipped. To be honest If your boy is at the start of his musical career than £100 should sort him out for some cymbals.
Some good sets here Andertons Music Company Cymbals Cymbals

ScoobyDoo555

All about the sound - you can't polish a turd.....

Sabian too, Zildjian

Dan

CrisPDuk

IIRC All cymbals are made from one copper based alloy or another and, mainly thanks to the Chinese electronics industry, the price of copper over recent years has gone through the roof.

Additionally, from what I understand your better quality cymbals are made from some form of bronze (cheaper models being made from brass), which is an alloy of copper and tin, but thanks to increasing use of lead free solders (which require a higher percentage of tin) in the aforementioned electronics industry the price of tin has also sky-rocketed. So any company in the higher end of the market is effectively being hit twice before they even begin to look at the manufacturing costs.


Hope that helps

gallois

proper cymbals are cast bronze, but don't be a cymbal snob, go to your local drum store and try a few, although i use zildjian Z-customs due to the music we play, some cheaper cymbals are perfectly playable until your son finds his niche. some cheaper sabians are quite nice the B8's are ideally suited for beginners and are affordable.

Matteeboy

That's bloody expensive!

My dad is a bass guitar nerd (ex professional/session bassist - still has a band) and seems to throw silly money at new guitars and amps. They do sound nice though.

MikeCardiff

iTrader: (2)

I'd agree cheaper ones are OK for occasional use, as long as they sound OK.

But from running a studio in the past, and having studio kits with cheap and expensive cymbals on them, comparing how easily the cheap ones crack and split compared to the more expensive ones, I'd say try and get some good second hand ones rather than having to pay twice.

Bubba po

Well, splashed out the money today on a pair of Zildjian "A" Custom 13" Mastersound hi-hats. £233.00 They sound fantastic compared to the ZBTs he's been using.

mart360

Cymbal A caspian special £25

Cymbal B uber rare diamond hardened, hand polished on virgin thighs,

shipped from HK in gold paper to preserve the rich timbre, yadda yadda

£5000


There both Cymbals.....

both go tschhhh when struck!!

Isn't that what separates a good musician from an ordinary musician,

A good musician can make an ordinary cymbal, drum, trumpet etc sound

awesome, whereas with an ordinary musician it sounds plain?

Mart

unclebuck

Was that deliberately phonetic?

splish....

Janspeed

iTrader: (1)

Dude, you seemed to be quite humble before, but after those comments at the end of the year, and now this......I dunno.

Nonetheless, if you want something good you HAVE to pay!

Bubba po

Don't know what you're on about, Janspeed. I'm not blowing my own trumpet, here. My lad's ten and has been playing the drums since he was three. You'd have to judge for yourself, but I think he's flipping amazing.

Mikee

Bubba- the cymbals you got are fine. Do also try to remember that a lot of it is down to personal preference too. My dad used to have an old pair of high hats that were fairly rare- the drummer from the bootleg beatles bought them off him after tracking them down for ages for a lot of money...they weren't worth a lot but he thought they had the right sound for what he was playing!
The roland electonic kit that I play means you can cheat and have a choice of hundreds of cymbals Good to see you're behind your boy, top marks!

Janspeed

iTrader: (1)

Ok fair enough!

Good to hear that.

thesyn

In theory with most music the sound is in the muscians fingers so any instrument can be made to sound good however I remember the pro session guitarist who was giving my son lessons advised me at an early stage to buy him a gibson les paul standard rather than a copy on the grounds that playing music well was hard enough so there is no sense in fighting the instrument at the same as playing it.
He (son) went on to study guitar at BIMM (Brighton Institute of Modern Music).
If he shows promise and you want to give him the best chance of realising it buy the best gear and pay for the best tuition.

Bubba po

I disagree with forking out £1500 on a Gibson Les Paul Standard, on two counts; one that kids are faddy and there is no guarantee that your child will take up the instrument seriously, and two that there are simply millions of superb guitars around the £300 mark that wouldn't require "fighting with the instrument". My favourite guitar is a 1982 Fender Squier Stratocaster that cost two hundred quid and I would defy anyone to show me a better Fender Strat from any source.

Still he's the teacher.

Bubba po

Christ! I've just been browsing online and some reissue LPs are nearly five grand! That cannot be justified. No electric instrument is that good!

thesyn

Yes you are right, however I am a very mediocre strummer and any excuse for a toy that I could use also
Also it was his 3rd guitar having been through the cheapo stuff.
Vintage LP are loads but have to prove that they are the original screws holding the pickups etc. so best left alone
There are some great deals currently, bought a 2002 white gibson flying v off fleabay in near new condition recently for £450 inc p&p then got a further 10% reduction for using a special offer on paypal.
Surely the rest of the drum kit and stands cannot come in much under a grand?

Timwinner

iTrader: (3)

Gibson have gone way downhill lately. The finish is shoddy. If your getting a custom, and you love guitars than there is nothing wrong with paying what it costs to get one.
I only have 2 fenders now, My daily sit in the living room and mess about on guitar is a Squire Tele and let me tell you, ITS AWESOME and it cost about £110!!!

The thing I tell myself when looking at guitar prices is this, Nevermind was written on a $50 heap. Puts it all into prospective

Mikee

Slightly off topic- Bubba...check this out...

YouTube - Paramore - Misery Business Drum Cover

Somebody is obviously supporting their kids talent here.

thesyn

Not wishing to argue but on the basis of owning 5 Gibsons between 1990 and 06 the finish does not seem to have deteriorated in quality.
The other point being that Kurt was a great musician but not a great technical guitarist so I imagine that he could have written Nevermind on any instrument. IMO

Bubba po

If it wasn't his first instrument then I ain't got no quibble. Anyone who puts in a couple of years of serious practice learning the instrument on a half decent guitar has earned the right to have whatever instrument they want, if they can afford it. There's a lot of "snake oil" to do with guitars, though.
My lad got one of those cardboard and plastic kits when he was three and had to play that for a year. A drummer friend of mine gave him an 8" splash cymbal that was surplus to requirements, and another gave him some really 'orrible bent-up hi-hats out of his garage . After about a year I bought him a cheap Stagg 12" splash and a stand, as it became apparent that he was showing real promise, even at four. Another couple of months later it was Christmas and in a fit of lunacy, coupled with being fed up of re-skinning the toy kit with damp-proof membrane, I bought him a Mapex V-series Jazz kit which is very small and compact, with a pair of Zildjian ZBT hi-hats and a pearl crash/ride for £350. He couldn't reach the bass drum pedal. So far I'm up to about £400.

Over the next few birthdays and Christmases he got two proper Zildjian Crashes and a Zildjian A series ride and turned into a proper drummer by the age of seven. That's about another £400 including stands.

With the new hi-hats, it's just taken him over the £1000 mark but it's taken him seven years of graft to get there.

Sorry for the extra-long post.

Timwinner

iTrader: (3)

Seriously..... You have to look closely at what they are churning out, The fret boards inlays are uneven, The switches are machined in, the inlay in the headstock is shocking.
I was in guitar village last week and I couldnt believe some of the finishes. I was disappointed in the QC of these guitars.

My friend got a custom and it was really nice, everything was perfect but the standards just dont do it for me anymore, the build looks the same as epiphone.
As for Kurt, thats my point, you can play or you cant I dont think you need to spend loads to find out.

We are guitar geeks!!!! yay for us!!

thesyn

Could not agree more, I am interested in all things musical especially guitars but the pleasure derived from playing is far more important than the instrument.