Slide into Police state?
05 January 2009, 07:27 AM
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05 January 2009, 07:46 AM
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A remote search can be granted if a senior officer says he “believes” that it is “proportionate” and necessary to prevent or detect serious crime - defined as any offence attracting a jail sentence of more than three years.
05 January 2009, 08:36 AM
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The quicker we get everyone on a DNA Database the better, couple that with compulsary (paid for by the state) ID Cards and all our fingerprints stored and we shall clean up the crimerate overnight!
The trick will be to catch everyone on the Database .... imagine all these 'invisible' travellers?
It takes an over-arching umbrella to really attack it .... once we can walk the street without fear and leave our cars where we want due to all the scum being caught and banged up .... everyone will sing its praises!
The trick will be to catch everyone on the Database .... imagine all these 'invisible' travellers?
It takes an over-arching umbrella to really attack it .... once we can walk the street without fear and leave our cars where we want due to all the scum being caught and banged up .... everyone will sing its praises!
05 January 2009, 08:40 AM
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Unless they start sending emails with trojans or talk nicely to Microsoft it isn't as easy as people think to hack into someone's PC. I would say that the time involved it WOULD have to be a serious allegation for them to try.
Although this combined with the new law for 'obscene' images (that hasn't been defined properly) could be interesting.
Steve
Although this combined with the new law for 'obscene' images (that hasn't been defined properly) could be interesting.
Steve
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05 January 2009, 09:10 AM
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I can just imagine someone hacking into my emails - they'd spend hours just going through the daily spam I have followed by more hours wasted with all the crap jokes my mates keep sending me.
I can't believe todays criminal uses email to plan their crimes!
I can't believe todays criminal uses email to plan their crimes!
05 January 2009, 09:16 AM
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If you DO encrypt your email it is an offence (of the going to prison for a long time kind) to not hand over the key when asked.
Steve
05 January 2009, 09:29 AM
#10
Ok, Steve......I have nothing to hide (except **** from the misses) but I do not like the idea of the dirty fuzz looking at my computer (in the same way I would not like people to open my mail) sowhat would be a way of securing a computer?
05 January 2009, 09:54 AM
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According to the article, the police would have to either : break into your house and 'fit' a key-logger, which I think would require a warrant unless burglary has been legalised ; send an email with a trojan which would rely on the recipient opening it, or 'war-driving' ie. sitting outside your house & attempting to break your wireless encryption. All three of these methods seem very clumsy & unreliable.
05 January 2009, 11:22 AM
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05 January 2009, 11:30 AM
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The quicker we get everyone on a DNA Database the better, couple that with compulsary (overpaid for (yet again) by the taxpayer) ID Cards and all our fingerprints stored and we shall clean up the crimerate overnight!
The trick will be to catch everyone on the Database .... imagine all these 'invisible' travellers?
It takes an over-arching umbrella to really attack it .... once we can walk the street without fear and leave our cars where we want due to all the scum being caught and banged up .... everyone will sing its praises!
The trick will be to catch everyone on the Database .... imagine all these 'invisible' travellers?
It takes an over-arching umbrella to really attack it .... once we can walk the street without fear and leave our cars where we want due to all the scum being caught and banged up .... everyone will sing its praises!
05 January 2009, 11:58 AM
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05 January 2009, 12:12 PM
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I have a feeling that this power will be exercised in the same way as a section 18 (if at all).
If you could throw a net out and catch all the muggers in the country, then search there homes to find stolen stuff it would be a good thing right?
If you can throw a virtual net out to catch everyone looking at child **** or paying with stolen credit cards, then search there computers to look for evidence it would be a good thing right?
I am just playing devils advocate here, not trolling or looking for a fight. I believe the majority of people on here are smart enough for a good debate, hence my comments.
* Having said all that it still doesnt sit right with me. So thats me planted firmly on the fence then......
If you could throw a net out and catch all the muggers in the country, then search there homes to find stolen stuff it would be a good thing right?
If you can throw a virtual net out to catch everyone looking at child **** or paying with stolen credit cards, then search there computers to look for evidence it would be a good thing right?
I am just playing devils advocate here, not trolling or looking for a fight. I believe the majority of people on here are smart enough for a good debate, hence my comments.
* Having said all that it still doesnt sit right with me. So thats me planted firmly on the fence then......
05 January 2009, 12:21 PM
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They are not the most intelligent, in most cases ........ I had a Radio Scanner once - accidently overheard some analogue mobile telephone calls sometimes - surprising what you could hear going on, accidently.
05 January 2009, 01:27 PM
#22
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If its makes you feel any safer, I don't think this will be used unless its national security. Hi Tech units have massive (and I mean massive) backlogs.
And how would they do it? Virus or Trojan? Doubt it - they would have to be written in-house, as there's no way that a "normal" worm or trojan delivery method could be used and relied on in court. Imagine the CPS relying on the attendance of "L33t cr3w" to give Queen's evidence. Would the court allow a 12yr old in the dock?
as for Hacking. I seriously doubt that the skillset is available. Hacking into a computer behind a router/firewall? Someone I knew couldn't even operate a Mac, let alone know how to remotely hack into one!
I've been in there, and I know the capabilities. If they want the data, they'll just come and get it under the authority of a normal warrant.
And how would they do it? Virus or Trojan? Doubt it - they would have to be written in-house, as there's no way that a "normal" worm or trojan delivery method could be used and relied on in court. Imagine the CPS relying on the attendance of "L33t cr3w" to give Queen's evidence. Would the court allow a 12yr old in the dock?
as for Hacking. I seriously doubt that the skillset is available. Hacking into a computer behind a router/firewall? Someone I knew couldn't even operate a Mac, let alone know how to remotely hack into one!
I've been in there, and I know the capabilities. If they want the data, they'll just come and get it under the authority of a normal warrant.
Last edited by BuRR; 05 January 2009 at 01:28 PM.
05 January 2009, 02:06 PM
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If its makes you feel any safer, I don't think this will be used unless its national security. Hi Tech units have massive (and I mean massive) backlogs.
And how would they do it? Virus or Trojan? Doubt it - they would have to be written in-house, as there's no way that a "normal" worm or trojan delivery method could be used and relied on in court. Imagine the CPS relying on the attendance of "L33t cr3w" to give Queen's evidence. Would the court allow a 12yr old in the dock?
as for Hacking. I seriously doubt that the skillset is available. Hacking into a computer behind a router/firewall? Someone I knew couldn't even operate a Mac, let alone know how to remotely hack into one!
I've been in there, and I know the capabilities. If they want the data, they'll just come and get it under the authority of a normal warrant.
And how would they do it? Virus or Trojan? Doubt it - they would have to be written in-house, as there's no way that a "normal" worm or trojan delivery method could be used and relied on in court. Imagine the CPS relying on the attendance of "L33t cr3w" to give Queen's evidence. Would the court allow a 12yr old in the dock?
as for Hacking. I seriously doubt that the skillset is available. Hacking into a computer behind a router/firewall? Someone I knew couldn't even operate a Mac, let alone know how to remotely hack into one!
I've been in there, and I know the capabilities. If they want the data, they'll just come and get it under the authority of a normal warrant.
Steve
05 January 2009, 02:12 PM
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05 January 2009, 10:18 PM
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I find the whole thing laughable given the mostly lamentable state of IT security used to protect government organisations! Having worked for 2 specialist ethical hacking companies and been involved in ethical hacking attempts against front line gvt systems - not one stood up to a thorough attack. I'd love to go into detail, but for obvious reasons I can't.
There are really only 2 gvt organisations that have got to grips with it - GCHQ (because it is their job!) and CEOP (because they have had the resources of the entire IT industry thrown at them for free).
As for whether it is possible - I have no doubt that it is. I've watched skilled hackers bypass just about any router / firewall you care to mention. I've witnessed a major mobile phone network be compromised by my guys just using a data SIM card (all the way to their billing systems and customer data...) - My concern is the ability for this power to be misused.
Chris
There are really only 2 gvt organisations that have got to grips with it - GCHQ (because it is their job!) and CEOP (because they have had the resources of the entire IT industry thrown at them for free).
As for whether it is possible - I have no doubt that it is. I've watched skilled hackers bypass just about any router / firewall you care to mention. I've witnessed a major mobile phone network be compromised by my guys just using a data SIM card (all the way to their billing systems and customer data...) - My concern is the ability for this power to be misused.
Chris
05 January 2009, 10:41 PM
#27
I second the post above - have been involved in penetration testing of Government IT systems - swiss cheese doesn't quite describe it!!!
I did some work where I had to liaise with a government "IT specialist" one of the recommendations in my report was to place some servers in a DMZ. He enquired what a DMZ was, I told him it stood for de-militarised zone, before I could explain further, he tutted and said this is a de-militarised zone, we are all civil servants in this department... I kid you not!
I did some work where I had to liaise with a government "IT specialist" one of the recommendations in my report was to place some servers in a DMZ. He enquired what a DMZ was, I told him it stood for de-militarised zone, before I could explain further, he tutted and said this is a de-militarised zone, we are all civil servants in this department... I kid you not!
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