Boro

iTrader: (1)

Last night my g/f got a producer, which in itself isnt odd as the car is registered in her name but...

I was driving and she was passenger

Just wondered how the cop shop would react if she went in and told em'

billythekid

Which boxes are ticked on the HORT/1?
I.e what docs do they want her to produce?

Boro

iTrader: (1)

Well we luckily had insurance with us, but he still wants us to produce it which was odd too. In addition, driving licence and mot.

billythekid

Did you have L plates on?

Luan Pra bang

baffles the crap out of me why we have an insurance and MOT database and yet people still have to run around with docs, just pointless socialist beaurocracy. They seem obsessed with pointless paper work.

billythekid

Power of constables to require production of driving licence
(1)Any of the following persons—
(a)a person driving a motor vehicle on a road,
(b)a person whom a constable has reasonable cause to believe to have been the driver of a motor vehicle at a time when an accident occurred owing to its presence on a road,
(c)a person whom a constable has reasonable cause to believe to have committed an offence in relation to the use of a motor vehicle on a road, or
(d)a person—
(i)who supervises the holder of a provisional licence while the holder is driving a motor vehicle on a road, or
(ii)whom a constable has reasonable cause to believe was supervising the holder of a provisional licence while driving, at a time when an accident occurred owing to the presence of the vehicle on a road or at a time when an offence is suspected of having been committed by the holder of the provisional licence in relation to the use of the vehicle on a road,must, on being so required by a constable, produce his licence for examination, so as to enable the constable to ascertain the name and address of the holder of the licence, the date of issue, and the authority by which it was issued.

billythekid

Database could have been down, or its possible the stop did not fill the criteria to do an MIB check. They ( the police ) are charged for each one so not all forces are willing to pay all the time so they use the producer still for routine stops.

Felix.

If you were the driver, then she would't have to produce her driving licence - just the MOT & insurance. Sometimes the databases are slow to update and cars can flag up that they are not insured/MOT'd on PNC when the actually are.

cster

Didn't know they still did this.
I would have thought it easier to bust you for a 3 pointer and £80 or whatever.

Boro

iTrader: (1)

Nope, no L plates. Also, our car was parked up in a public carpark at the time. We were at no time on a road or driving. I was in the drivers seat, she was outside the car when the police arrived.

Just to clarify, our car is quite new to us and wasnt showing on MID, which is why we had our insurance policy with us (just in case). Fat lot of good that did.

I appreciated the police check PNC/MID to make sure the car is legal, but when you physically show them a valid insurance policy why would they then ask you to re-produce it at the station. Ive had producers before and they only ever require you to produce documents you couldnt produce at the roadside.

As for my g/f having to produce her driving licence, that seems a complete joke. A) she wants driving and B) the car wasnt being driven

billyray911

iTrader: (4)

The MIB database isn't the final word re a car being insured.Some people have certificates issued to them and then cancel their policies.There are also loads more scams re documentation.
If the time of the stop is out of hours for ringing the MIB Police hotline,then you will get a 'producer'.
I dont know why,if an original certificate was produced at the roadside(under most circumstances,a carpark is part of the road under the RTA),why they were asked to produce it again.
Pointless socialist beaurocracy maybe ,but there are too many tossers out there who spoil it for the majority.Price i'm prepared to pay in a modern 'civilised' society.Driving isn't a right and we all have obey the rules sometimes...sometimes

Boro

iTrader: (1)

If the MID isnt the final word and certificates can be issued and then policies cancelled... how is taking my already submitted insurance certificate to the police station still needed and why should my g/f have to prove she has a license when she wasnt driving?

In fact, thinking about it... "IF" i was driving because me g/f was banned, she would now be charged with driving whilst disqualified.

billythekid

Indeed, at the time the HORT/1 was being done I would be asking the quesion, bit late now I know because I am fairly sure the bobby will deny and say she was driving like you said if she was DD she would be in deep poopoo.

Anywho, the BiB will maybe call the insurance co to verify the cirt when you produce if MIB was out of date.

As for the DL mate, I would just produce and put it down to jumping through the hoops... next time you will know the score and I would quesion why a pax was being asked to produce their DL.

Luan Pra bang

I once had a numpty officer threaten to take my car away because though I was insured it was not on the database. luckily he pulled me 200 yards from my office so I went and and got my insurance but the idiot still wanted to have my car towed untill he acutally checked with my insurance company.

Boro

iTrader: (1)

Just thought id update this after going to produce. The guy on the desk apologised and asked if we wanted to make an official complaint!

Turned out the copper was a "special" and obviously didnt have a clue what he was doing. We declined the complaint, so he's going to email him and explain how he got it wrong lol.

gpssti4

iTrader: (6)

I had a 'Special' do something stupid with me and a producer a few years ago. He cautioned me when no offence had been commited and when I questioned this as to why he said it he said "because I like to". F***wit. That was in Penzance, don't know where yours was Boro.

LeeMac

iTrader: (1)

thing is if you were on a private car park and wasn't actually driving it why would they ask for your docs and not hers, its her car and wasnt on a road

no offense but why get on their backs for something trivial like this, its no wonder some of them treat us like ****

I had 2 producers within 30 mins when I was a kid, was in Liverpool tho, just produce the docs and get on with it, no big deal

+Doc+

Amazing what happens to people when they get a bit of power. Hopefully he has been knocked down a peg or two.

GC8

Because the percentage of false negatives run into double figures. The menace comes from the bullying buffoons who try to impound peoples vehicles on this information alone; rather than from the officers who act correctly and check properly.

GC8

Q.E.D.

mykp

He was a "Special" you mean a pretent police person.

Anyway, they dont need a reason, they are "the law" and you are just a minion in their domain.

NXG

Just FYI, a caution will still show on your Police record and may affect things in the future.

Also to note that you do not have to accept a caution if you believe you were not doing anything wrong and/or there would be insufficient evidence to effect a prosecution. You would have to argue your case in court (if required, chances are you wouldn't if there wasn't any substantial evidence) and be very sure of your grounds for doing so, you obviously can't just tell a copper to stick it....

The flip side is if that goes pear-shaped it's a more severe penalty...

GC8

A PACE caution and an official caution issued by a senior police officer, in lieu of further action, are two totally different things...

NXG

Cryptic....

skid11

iTrader: (1)

Whats a PACE caution then ?

GC8

".....You do not have to say anything. But it may harm your defence if you do not mention when questioned something which you later rely on in court. Anything you do say may be given in evidence....."

NXG

I think he's referring to a Police and Criminal Evidence ACT 1984, but this isn't what the post was about. The quote refers to an on the spot caution, as does my original response, which is where an officer will issue a caution when they believe an offence has been committed but don't have sufficient evidence for an arrest, ergo, insufficient evidence for conviction in court.

BTW, if you try this and fail, don't come crying to me....!! Oh, and if you DO try it, BE NICE, else they'll get you on something else like disorderly/offensive conduct, and NEVER touch an officer in uniform for any reason, it's classed as assaulting a police officer....

GC8

An 'on the spot caution'. Wtf is that? How can anything be applied to a persons 'police record' without arrest, detention and positive identification.

Youve been watching too much Judge Dredd my friend.

stara

agreed, be arsey with a copper and they'll try to get you for something, a good example is the tall ginger copper on road wars getting wound up in front of the cameras when a chavvy little ar5ehole in a multistorey carpark was goading him to the point of deserving a good slapping, and then touched the copper. he got slung on the bonnet, cuffed and arrested. i'd love to have seen what would have happened if there were no cameras.

NXG

I'm not going to argue with you in case your knowledge of the above quote is from memory, required in a professional capacity

And it's CSI/NCIS.... try to keep up

The police caution (Simple Caution in this case as opposed to a Conditional Caution) the original poster refers to is the 'slap on the wrist' for a first/minor offence. It is not a conviction of an offence, but it WILL give you a criminal record for 5 years.

To be given a caution you have to admit to the offence, so if you believe you have done nothing wrong and/or there is insufficient evidence, don't admit to anything. If you do you'll be given a form saying you have admitted to XYZ and formally cautioned. If you deny it, you'll be given a summons, and get your chance to argue your case in court, IF the CPS decide the Police have provided sufficient evidence. If they can't they'll advise the Police to drop it.