finalzero

Just came across this on the BBC news page:

BBC NEWS | England | Lincolnshire | Children died in 'modified' car

Thats horrific, fareplay if the guy did a bodge job but I feel for his loss, I can't imagine losing my 3 kids, losing 4 like that is devastating.

Fz

sarasquares

iTrader: (1)

8 people in a Landrover, is that legal?

106_enduro

what the hell had he done???

One brake caliper bigger than the others?? was he going to do a corner at a time???

It amazes me how some people choose to mod their cars and do it without commen sense or thought as to the implications of their mods.

I feel for the family though, losing those kids will haunt him for the rest of his life.

David_Dickson

The "modifying" name being dragged through the gutter by the media again

It wasnt "mods" that killed these kids, it was incompetant bodge-work.

DCI Gene Hunt

that's right, he did his own "maintenance" and instead of replacing with OEM or compatible parts he modified the vehicle with donor disimilar parts... 7 children, 4 drowned sad state of affairs

dome

Bloke was a moderator on several Landrover forums. Here's a post of his shortly after the accident.

Remember that was the prosecutions case, the defence will have their say. Sounds from his story like the brakes wouldn't have affected the crash.

A statement by Gresh taken from the Landrover boards:

"I have to thank everyone who has been by our sides through this ongoing ordeal. Thanks also to everyone who have sent messages and posted on the various forums. I do not have the strength at the moment to trawl the other forums, please spread my thanks.

All the support is truly overwelming, and we are touched.

Now, to set the story straight, and I know I don't need to with you, but I want my friends (you lot) to know the truth first hand.

I was not overtaking the transit van, my children were all strapped in securely, which ultimately made it hard to get them out and contributed to the deaths of both Keavy and Willow. Still, despite this, I firmly believe kids should be strapped in, if we hadn't hit cold water, the outcome may have been very different.

The Transit van in question did not yield, his side of the road had a three foot edge, mine had a six or seen inch edge. My rear tyre felt like it slipped off the bank, sliding me sideways. The 110 shot across the road and then rolled down the bank, submerging it a foot or two under the water. And the rest is history.

Now for the sad part, we have to face the very real prospect that the life support will be turned off on Angel and Thor later middayish. This isn't guess work, we have been taking to every surgeon in Leicester.

Your support and help is a source of strength for us, in 48hrs we have gone from a happy family of eight children, to a broke family with four children, I can not epress how we feel, and I really hope you NEVER find out.

i will endeavour to post something in the next couple of days.

i an proud to count you all as my friends.

Thank you

Nigel, Sara, Star, Liam, Amber and Ceann."

sarasquares

iTrader: (1)

its so sad

phil_wrx

iTrader: (2)

so he lost 4 of his own kids? thats terrible and are the other 4 names his kids too?

sound slike he wasnt "modifying" his landrover just did diy bodge work, i really feel for him and i cant imagine that any punishment the court are going to give him will be worse than what he is going through.

sarasquares

iTrader: (1)

i had someone change my discs and pads on my drive, makes you think

RON

I'm on several of the land rover firums where this guy used to post, all the threads on this topic have been locked out of respect for him, and his family.......

Who are we to merely speculate as to what was wrong with his vehicle (if anything!!!) when the only facts we think we know are those spread by the media, when was the last time 'you' were involved with the media, and what they said was correct....

I personally think we should leave the subject alone, as merely speculating gets no-one anywhere.....

astraboy

I agree, Trial by media sums up everything that is wrong with modern society, their underhand, not so subtle fingerpointing and hypocritical double standards make me sick.
astraboy.

David_Dickson

Whether you believe the media story or not makes little difference to the fact that they have jumped on the word "modified" - this has potentially very serious reprecussions for all car enthusiasts - It would be typical of our esteemed leaders to legislate some knee-jerk reaction to the media hype about "modified" cars.

austinwrx

if your children are dead and in hopsital dying- why would you be posting on internet forums ?

Luminous

iTrader: (3)

I suppose in a time like that you will support of your friends. I guess as a mod of of forum(s) then a lot of his friends will be online.

Leslie

Its a tragic story and if the accident was caused as he said it was then I feel sorry for him and his wife too. Those roads are pretty dangerous in difficult conditions and many people have come to grief by being forced off the road into a dyke let alone a river.

Les

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

This is no justification for the guys driving and crashing (and I think its his driving mostly at fault here) but....

It can happen: Especially with old cars where the market is flooded with nasty pattern and recon parts (Jags, MGs, Triumphs Land Rovers etc).

Say his front caliper failed: You replace it with a new one. (Easy Job: Remove wheel, undo the two bracket bolts, undo hose, pop out the pins that hold the pads and swap over).

You go to a store and buy a new caliper for your specific car, you buy a non-genuine one because its either cheaper or originals no longer exist. What can happen is you "could" end up with a part off a different model year of the same car which is slightly different, or one that just isn't the same at all.

The differences could be marginal as not to notice unless measured or old and new parts are put side by side and carefully inspected. Now if the person (or mechanic) fitting it wasn't eagled eyed enough to compare it, there is a possibility it could all bolt on fine (including the pads), and you'd be none the wiser.


Talking of Calipers; I've had this with the front caliper on my Old man's Jag. The new calipers are non-genuine (recons, or pattern copies, I believe). Which look externally identical to the original items. However, the piston sizes used are larger than the originals. Now, if only one caliper was replaced (which is perfectly legal, and common practice to do), imagine what effect that could have had?

I also the same issue with the rear shock absorbers on the same car: the "OE spec" Boge replacements were of totally different internal construction to the factory Jaguar items (they even used different spring retaining collets). Whilst the originals are single tube gas pressurised, the replacements were double tube items (they look the same externally). Of which the damping rates were totally different; the rebound rate was so stiff that the car ended up running on the bump stops on bumpy roads (as the suspension was too slow to rise back up after hitting a pothole) It created havoc with the ride (and no doubt handling). Replacing all the shocks with another make that actually were OE spec returned the car to how it should be.

Its not justification, but it just shows how careful you have to be with these things.

Leslie

All very well, but do you know that the reason he went into the river was due to the unmatched calipers, or because his left hand wheels were forced off the road onto the soft earthy side off the hard standing? If you have driven along those Lincolnshire roads between the dykes or next to a river you might realise that once the wheels get onto the soft stuff you are likely to be dragged off the road irretrievably and down the slope into the water. As I mentioned above, a good many people have come to their end in such a manner. The roads are not very wide incidentally.

Les

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

Leslie, that's exactly what I'm saying: its subjective.

The papers/courts are mentioning the calipers and person maintaining the car as the cause; I'm disagreeing and saying its the driving. And in reply to how someone can inadvertainly fit the wrong replacement caliper, I'm saying it can happen.

And despite all this: I still think the brakes alone nor the road he was driving can cause the accident, granted its a factor. But its always the nut behind the wheel; He should have adjusted his driving style to suit the vehicle's limitations and the road he was driving on.

Fuzz

Sounds like most offroading landrovers I know, held together with zip ties and bashed straight after each altercation with a tree
Sad that his little-uns died
Obviously the papers were actually struggling with things wrong with the vehicle other than the front calipers...
Quick... stop press.. it had a worn brake pedal..ooooohhhh

Leslie

Yes ok, but the way I read it, he was forced sideways by the transit van so that his wheel went onto the soft earth and the Rover was dragged down the slope into the river. That sounds more like the transit driver was not giving him as much room as he could have and therefore it was not his fault the the Rover went into the river. I know what it is like because I have driven along those road between dykes for many years and I know what it is like to be "squeezed" by a driver approaching me in such cases.

Les

Klaatu

Only if it's a registered 10 seater (Maybe 11 now, not sure. The laws changed since I had anything to do with anything more than a 5 seater. 12 seats, it's a mini-bus).

Klaatu

Insurance rules around modfied vehicles, IMO, are slack, even in the UK! I know this from personal experience. I modified a 4 Cyl, 5sp manual Land Rover 90, to V8, 4sp auto. All I needed was an "engineers report". Having said that, and having been involved in motorsport and advanced driving, I did a good job on the mods, after all, I was gpoing to drive it.

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

I didn't even need to do that

( 88" v8 3spd auto + overdrive )

Fuzz

86" series one with a cammed and carbed up 3.0 V6 in mine... still on the original 1955 era drum brakes.

I remember getting pulled by the rozzers once, he leaned in, said one sentence and then drove off..

"A landrover doesn't have to sound that loud or go that fast, calm it down a bit" LOL