David Lock

How does Peter Green sustain those very long notes in this song?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QeOKj5XdVAE

Can't think it's Feedback. May be it's studio trickery and can't be done live?

What do you reckon?

David

cookstar

iTrader: (6)

My brother plays guitar and drums, he has pedals to depress to keep notes going.

David Lock

Thanks. But my boy has tried that with some floor effects but you can hear a series of clicks as the note goes on. The ones in The Supernatural are completely clear. dl

cookstar

iTrader: (6)

I have never heard any clicks when he does it, maybe the equipment is of a different standard? I know he has spent a fortune on his stuff.

unclebuck

I don't think they much in the way of studio trickery back then.

One of these:



You can hear it during the sustain and when he slides down at the end.

Speech

Probably one of these - ebow

Little battery powered thing that lets you create, amongst other things, infinite sustain! Pretty sure The Edge uses one too, but don't quote me on that!

unclebuck

Unlikely. That track was recorded before the invention of the EBow. You have to fade them in and out anyway - you don't get any 'attack' at the begining of notes.

David Lock

Yeah - I think you guys are right. And yes it was mostly studio smokery back in them bad ole days

So if you have the name of any kit that might do this please post. Ta muchley d


Edit. Posted before I saw the ebow stuff. But I think he has one of those so I think I'll go and hit him or something

WRX_Dazza

david, a digitech multifx box can do this sort of stuff.
ill try and find a link, was a few years back, when we went to a demo of it.

it also allows amazing choruses and pitch bending !!!
let me find something...

WRX_Dazza

in fact "the rat" stomp box can hold quite a lengthy feedback. just experiment with the gain and youll get near to Gary Moore's Parisienne walkways!!!

David Lock

Now we're making progress. Well done old chap dl

MikeCardiff

iTrader: (2)

Simple answer is gain, feedback and practice !

If you position yourself closely correctly in relation to the amp ( normally a couple of feet away and at about 45 degrees facing the speaker, although it varies from amp to amp ), with plenty of volume and gain on it, you can create a sort of 'feedback loop' with the note ( a lot different from squealy noisy feedback ) where the feedback reinforces the note and keeps it sustaining. Using a decent sustaining guitar like a Les Paul on the front pickup helps. You can either do it with slide, or with fingers.

Basically I think the note coming out of the amp causes the string to vibrate in sympathy with it, which then keeps the note coming out of the amp etc... so in theory you can hold the note indefinitely.

It isnt actually that hard to do, and doesnt need any extra effects, just practice in being able to control the feedback once it starts.

IIRC from an interview I read years ago with him he did used to do it live, and mark the spot where the feedback from the amp was best with tape on the stage so he knew where to stand.

MikeCardiff

iTrader: (2)

Also forgot to add, the amp needs to be pretty loud ( basically gig volume ) for this to work, so probably better for your ears if you dont get him to practice it in the house.

I did used to use pretty much the same thing when playing live on the outro of a certain song we did, and the only effect I used to use live was reverb and the distortion on the amp, although the amp was pretty high gain.

J4CKO

iTrader: (1)

I am and electric off my brother, he is really good and has been playing for years, I have got interested again but my acoustic feels so hard to play, I cant get the strings down hard enough which is practice but I managed a lot better with an electric and its not like cuddling a suitcase, this is J4CKO jnr jamming with his mate, he is the on the right,

YouTube - 16 Bar Minor Blues

David Lock

Nice relaxing little toon. Enjoyed that so thanks

=============

Mike - thanks for posting. Very interesting indeed. Mustn't forget that Peter was a very skilled player so that all makes sense. I like the tape trick!

Comments about volume noted. We'll try it when mum's out but take the amp down to a hall for volume 11.

Thanks all for helpful stuff. d

seab

Its the guitar, peter green played a les paul (IIRC) and i read somewhere when they designed the les paul they chose the material etc as they wanted a 20-30 second sustain on it.

David Lock

I'll get one in the morning

Thanks btw

MikeCardiff

iTrader: (2)

Not really true about the guitar - (some) Les Pauls have excellent sustain, but it varies from guitar to guitar ( I've owned over a dozen different ones over the years from Studios, Standards, Customs etc..., plus many other Gibson models and other makes ) - generally the denser the mahogany is for the body, the longer the sustain will be, and heavier guitars certainly seem to give more sustain, but I have had lighter LP's that sustained better than heavier ones, so it often just depends on the particular guitar. Also set neck guitars seem to sustain better than bolt ons, which is probably why Gibsons have the reputation of better sustain than Fenders.

The LP doesnt necessarily have better sustain than other guitars, 335's and SG's also sustain well, as do some of the older superstrats like Kramers and Jacksons. Older LP's will be better as some of the modern models had 'sound chambers' cut out of the body to reduce the weight.

The LP certainly wasnt designed to give a 20 or 30 second sustain ( think that may be an urban myth, or possibly just 'after the fact' voodoo dreamed up by Gibsons PR people ). A lot of the design of the LP seems to be a happy accident, for example, a lot of the tone comes from the maple cap over the mahogany, and the maple was only added to make them look pretty, not for any tonal reasons.

WRX_Dazza

david, post up a picture of James, perched on one foot hanging out the window with a coat hanger balanced on his ear and some masking tape underfoot !!!

infact, just post a pic of the neighbours faces!!! hahahah

all the best

Dazza

David Lock

He'd be up for it

Mike, I had a chat with James about trying this out. The problem is his playing space is usually very limited - in a pub for example. But we're determined to do some experimentation. He has a few guitars, but nothing special, so he'll see what works best, if at all. I think the Grolsch (spelling) is his preferred axe at the moment. d

MikeCardiff

iTrader: (2)

Do you mean Gretsch ? thought Grolsch was a beer ( which may explain why he is getting problems getting feedback from it ??? )

Even in a pub he should have enough space as it will often work 18" or so from the speaker, depending on the model of amp. Might be worth getting a couple of hours in a rehearsal studio where he can crank up the amp without upsetting anyone and see how it goes.

Its making me nostalgic now to get a couple of my LP's down from the attic and blow the dust off them

David Lock

Yes I think I do mean Gretsh !!! I was going to check but he's taken it out today for his school's teaching.

He has access to a studio - well a cold garage actually - but it passes muster and he can crank things up.

Once you start looking thro' old LPs though.................. (now where's that old Clapton stuff.....)

d

Bubba po

If the Gretsch is a semi-acoustic he might have problems getting controlled feedback sustain as the body construction is prone to uncontrolled howling when the amp is overdriven and the instrument held close to the speaker. He'd have more success using a Les Paul style guitar with powerful humbucking pickups.

SunnySideUp

Best Guitar Instrumental of all time .....

YouTube - Fleetwood Mac Albatross

Bubba po

No it isn't.

I bet I know what your choice for "Best Organ Instrumental of all time" is.

SunnySideUp

Yes it is

Bubba po

It's like "Chopsticks" for the guitar.

SunnySideUp

It took me 2 months to learn how to play it!

Bubba po

Palsy of the fingers is a terrible disease, and quite unfairly overlooked by medical science.

tath

Mike is right, most of the other ideas are ballollocks

If Albatross was a challenge, next have a go at Big Love.