BlkKnight

About time




BBC NEWS | Politics | Benefit shake-up 'revolutionary'

StickyMicky

agreed

Petem95

The looks great (on paper...) - lets hope they actually put it into practice, and don't let the PC police get in the way.

PeteBrant

My only problem with it, is tha ti tdepicts *all* those on benefits as workshy layabouts that should be made to work.

I also think the timing is a bit off when many companies are starting to lay people off givne the impending recession, meaning it's goign to be hard ot get work for lots of people.


I also think the abolition of incapacity benefit is a bit off. And the idea that those signed off work sick are going to have to have thier condition validated by another doctor that is not thier own GP. What are they saying here? That GP's opinions are not to be trusted? As well as GPs having enough on thier plate as it is.

It just worries me that this is a populist move, rather than a required one.

Leslie

Everything they do seems to be populist and you never know what they really mean until you have seen the small print or whether they will actually do it anyway.

Les

Scooby Soon!

it will never work, the scabs won't want to do the work (against human rights in'it) and the goverment wont be able to do anything about it.

Great idea (although people having been saying it for years) but all the lay abouts will get doctors notes saying they cant touch rubbish, cant bend over to pick rubbish up etc etc blah blah blah

scoobynutta555

Maximum years of dole payable should be limited to 5 through a person's work life after at least 2 years of contribution through taxes. Incapacity benefit should be paid to those who undergo regular examination of independent doctor. I'd also fingerprint all people claiming incapacity benefit/dole.

The considerable savings made by this would be ploughed back into lowering further claimants.

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

Interesting that this morning, Work and Pensions secretary James Purnell, on being asked about childcare for those having to go to work and having young children, started talking about how "we've already arranged for children to stay in schools.........".

To which my wife, a serving headteacher, whose primary school is up to date with EVERY initiative that could benefit the community, the kids and her staff, said, " Have you really.........because no-one I know knows owt about it!".

More Lying Labour lies, then

Alcazar

unclebuck

Words.

Headline grabbing words. Stealing the Tories clothes again.

They won't do anything. That's their core vote they're talking about.

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

Couldn't agree more.
They have Cameron over a barrel: keep harping on about the Tories having no policies, then nick whatever policies they come out with.

He can't win

Alcazar

PeteBrant

How about some form of tattoo'd barcode? Or perhaps making them wear a special uniform?

I mean after all, surely you forego any sort of right when you claim benefits.

In fact, you better include people that use the NHS in that bracket. Or Public transport, or receive child benefit, or are covered by the UK defence capability. I man all thos epeople benefit from the public purse, no?

I mean some of them, god forbid, don't pay in as much as they get out, the scrounging *******s.

Some of the cheeky ****ers working for minimum wage have the cheek to use GPs.

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

About time!

Martin2005

No matter what the policy, you would say the same thing, unless of course the Tories announced it!!

Shark Man

They are starting to get the idea: I think it might be a bit too lenient, and implemented over too-long a time scale.

Cut benefits, and put up the prices of **** and beer. That'll get workshy to pull their finger out

As unpopular as it sounds, I wouldn't mind if off-licence prices were put into line with what alcoholic drink costs at pubs.

The big issue I see is that I don't think the private sector has the capacity(economic or otherwise) or need to employ them all, especially with the economic constraint the goveenment has placed on businesses forcing them to streamline; The result will leave us with a load of road sweepers.

Klaatu

It must be close to an election year!!! It's all BS people....

what would scooby do

IIRC there was a thread on snet a while back on just this topic.

New York does something similar already for the unemployed, single parents and the disabled.

PeteBrant

It's based on a system they have in Wisconsin. The difference being that in Wisconsin they have gone the whole hog and put in defined limit on the length of time you can receive benefits.

So if, say, you are a single parent, and you don't have a job within 3 years of claiming, then tough luck, you ain't getting anymore money.

Thankfully this isn't being proposed here.

Klaatu

The city also get's tough, and has been for sometime, on crime. Can't see that happening in the UK though.

I recall back in the 80's the "father" of some "oik" was arrested, roughed up abit by the pigs, for B&E and car theft etc. What did his "father" shout outside court?

"My boy was only doing his job!"

Doing his job? B&E and car theft!!

CooperS

The company I work for delivers training and support for people on IB. have just opened 16 new offices to assist with this which follow the 32 we opened for it at the start of the year.

chocolate_o_brian

iTrader: (22)

im gonna have a small say on this mainly as due to my condition, i may have to go on some kind of disability benefit for a short time.

situation is, if i cant get work doing something, anything to try pay my bills, im going to need some genuine help. as i see it, disabilty allowance for someone like me is just a longer version of s.s.p.

well to put it this way, if i was unfortunate and couldnt find someone to employ me (which hopefully is not the case), then baring physical restrictions (which in my case is manual handling and repetitive use of my wrist - no jokes ), then i would be happy to do something for the community. if doing something to sort of earn any benefits i may have to claim for whatever reason, im more than happy to do so, as long as my health wasnt risked.

the above is forseeing possibly too far in the future, but i do think its a good thing, unless you are genuinly unable to even move - which i am not. i am physically healthy papart from a knackered wrist, which unfortunatley worries me regards future employment.

get the long term fraudsters off i say, not necessarily the short term needy which i may have to class myself into eventually.

kinda makes sense

Shark Man

re: No Wisconsin system in the UK: Mores the pity; Although it would create mass poverty if it were to be implemented here and now with our current social demographics. If it was done 10years ago there would have been hope and incentive not to do the whole "get preggo to get benefits" exploits.

It would also be nice to see more efforts in getting the disabled-yet -still-abled into alternate work with associated support and councilling.

Spoon

Can you get a qualification in limping and excess eating now then?

Disclaimer: Applies to only non genuine IB claimants.

PeteBrant

So you would support a move that meant that the welfare system basically left people that could not get work to starve?

More importantly, you would support the fact that the child, through no fault of its own would be made to suffer if the parent could not get employment.

As for the 10 year ago comment, the current system of income support for single parents was introduced in '87

The Zohan

Looks great on paper and makes great soundbites - i wonder what the reality will be - diluted by the PC right on brigade and hacked at by the human rights to$$ers - unlikely to have any teeth or really do any good.

The main thing is that benefits will not be stopped of claimants do nothing to comply, penalties imposed but this soft gutless govt will never really make the tough decisions and make tough policies/actions that will really affect this.

The Yanks tried it with benefits stopped to those who did not comply - human rights and minorities groups kicked up merry hell.

The Yanks pushed this through and it worked - even those opposed agreed that it was the right thing to do once they saw the results.

Gutless Gordon and the rest of his cronies will never have what it takes to do things properly

SunnySideUp

It's called 'Extended Schools' - we have known about it for many a year now.

CooperS

Haha they get sent to us and have to stay on program or they lose their benefits.

Have yet to see someone in a wheelchair or limping yet! All look fit as a fiddle

PeteBrant

No way!

That's outrageous - Surely you *have* to be limping or in a wheel chair to be disabled?

The Zohan

For those that work - it is known as nursery - it costs around £ 700.00 per month to keep a child there 5 days a week whilst the parent goes to work - 100% to the parent, not the state until the child is 3y 6m+ then there is a 25% reduction (or there about's)

Nopt complaining - it is not being paid for by the govt - unless Jenny and i are the only parents paying for it.

Spoon

That's just it, it's almost a 2 tier (or 22!) system.

Most genuine cases won't be affected by the changes as they couldn't possibly attend your courses.

Those claiming to suffer from something that is a con to most people will be in attendance with seemingly nothing outwardly visible and in lots of cases nothing inwardly except knowledge of the system.

Spoon

Pete, unfortunately for your misguided 'lurch in to a thread machine', this wasn't the point of mine or the reply from CooperS.