The Zohan

Looking at NSR it ocurred to me there where not enough threads about the local elections and the state of the government

Brown had a pretty harsh wake up call and not before time. the best he could do was say "we will start listening to the voters" or words to that effect. A bit late for that mate.

Labour can say all they want about the result not reflecting the national view - the only people they are fooling is themsleves

Brown is done for unlikey to see out the next six -eight weeks imho, there will be a rally round and whilst he is looking at the cameras in that manner of his the knives will be stuck firmly in his back.

So Questions
? what could Labour/Brown do to make you think Labour are worth another go

? Secondly who could/would succeed Brown as PM?

Kieran_Burns

iTrader: (1)

I'd love someone to start a vote of no confidence in the Govt - the electorate clearly have no faith in this Party, so should Parliament?

lordretsudo

I don't think that the Labour party will have the guts to replace Brown. There isn't even anyone to take his place, they're all tarred by association with Blair/Brown. I saw Boris Johnson said they should replace him with Milliband, but he looks like a spoilt, geeky 18 year old; who's going to take him seriously?!

Snazy

Agreed with the above, just like Blair they wont have the ***** to oust him from the throne.
But in the same breath, he needs to go. And IF he was to go, I think a GE should be called within months. It would be totally wrong for them to be able to chop and change leader and remain in power with no public vote.

Leslie

Hard to say whether those who want to see the back of him will succeed in getting the skids established under his feet. It may well be that the fear of losing their sinecures will ginger them up into action from the point of self preservation.

But who for his replacement I wonder? At the moment it looks like David Millimetre might be the choice for the modern reason of picking a young leader. Big mistake I think-he would be about as impressive as Clegg I imagine, ie rubbish!

They will be in a mixture of denial as ever, and desperation!

Les

Sonic'

The thing is, NO ONE wanted Gordon Clown in power as the PM, people voted for Tony Blair

He could attempt to redeem himself in time for the next general election, but I seriously do think his days are numbered

Suresh

Have you ever heard of John Major? He took over from Thatch as PM for 2 years before an election took place (which he won)


That said NL is finished. The economy is a success, but taxation and immigration policies do not reflect the wishes of a majority.

David Lock

They are all now saying they will LISTEN.......

Well they may do but it will make sod all difference as Brown will just tell his schoolboy/girl cabinet what to do and ignore what he doesn't like to hear.

The country wants a change and might even be able to put up with Cameron the Chamelion. Nothing is going to stop the mood change.

Knives will be out at the labour conference. GB will stay on, lose the election, and get slung out. dl

PeteBrant

Be a a bit of a waste of time surely, which is why no one has done it. I mean there is nothing to stop Cameron doing it, but he won't because it is utterly unwinnable.

unclebuck

That's what they've always said when they get worried. We know it's a lie. They won't change. Nobody believes them anymore anyway.

They want ID Cards, 42 days, Third Runway, No referendum on EU Constitution, VED extensions, etc etc....

what's changed?

Snazy

Strangely enough, yes I have
However GB's reign will be somewhat longer if he holds onto the top spot. However my comment was more based on IF there is another challenge for leadership. A second hand over of power should NOT be allowed. imo anyway.

The bit about the economy though.... thats really quite funny.

Was, past tense I believe. And more to the point, as previously mentioned.... a success at what expense...

SetoN

1) Close the borders to immigrants untill we work out how many we have already.

2) Help more first time buyers get on the property ladder.

3) Reduce petrol prices as a gesture of good will and look at alternative messures of reducing global warming.

4) Tougher sentances to REAL criminals.

4) Get rid of G.Brown.

Only then would they get my vote.

SetoN

Suresh

Britain is far more prosperous than 10 years ago. Such a sustained period of growth, low unemployment and low inflation has never been seen before AFAIK. I left the uk in 1993 when unemployment was a spectacular 10% and interest rates had just come off their 15% highs. I think I still even had negative equity then. I sold the property in question a few years back and pocketed a reasonable gain in the end

Maybe you are just too young to remember?

UK growth is the envy of Europe and its relatively stable housing market the envy of the US right now! In terms of unexplained price rises in the domestic housing market i.e. not underpinned by economic fundamentals, the Netherlands and Ireland markets are more ov
er-inflated than the UK's (source:The Economist)

Do you really have it so bad now economically?
Have you looked into how the Tories plan to treat people who can't work owing to injury? They used to leave them to fend for themselves whilst they and their rich mates filled their boots.....

Snazy

lol im 35 so think im old enough to remember some of it thanks

I dont doubt that we have had good growth, but then explain how 10 years of growth is ALL Labours doing, but this current dive is NOTHING to do with them?

I know its a global problem, but so was some of the growth too. However Labour would not have you believe that.

dsmith

There are of course several key difference between the Thatcher/Major and Blair/Brown handovers.

Major had no backroom deals with Thatcher to take over
Thatcher hadnt won the prev election promising to serve her full term - in the climate of full knowledge major would take over at some point.
The conservatives actually had a leadership contest with a debate on policy and direction.

I still dont think any of the labour top level understand just how much damage the non-election of brown did them. Clearly the result of internal deals in the party and about as undemocratic as you can get. But oh so typcial of new labour.

The "acclaimed" prudence is finally being shown for the sham it always has been. An economy fed by public spending is unsustainable. The government is supposed to be "better" than us. It is absolutely supposed to save during the better years to have enough to make life easier in the bad. New labour have just spent spent spent (with **** all return) regardless.

Snazy

And now apparently a back bencher has spoken out about the leadership of the Labour Party.

Suresh

I've got almost 7 years on you, son!

Obviously I live somewhere different to you, but I do visit the UK at least once a month for either business or to see the family - but what "dive" in the UK economy are you talking about exactly ?? Did unemployment double whilst I wasn't watching or something?

GlesgaKiss

"Are Gordon Brown and/or Labour finished?"

- Lets f*ckin hope so!

kingofturds

iTrader: (1)

You must be old enough to remember the utter shambles the tories inherited from the last labour lot, disastrous private firm bail outs, union strikes fuel chaos (deja vu) and billions and billions of debt.

Roll forward to know and we are in the same boat, except we do not have any nationalised firms to sell off on the cheap to reduce public debt. Apart from Northern rock

The Zohan

And let's not forget about the gold reserves, we can sleep tight...that's right, some fool sold a lot off when the prices was depressed and at an all time low.
Perfect financial sense.

When the tories get in (and chances are they will) they will have their work cut out, things likely to get worse beofre they get better - they had better get it right or i might be the next Guy Fawkes!

I am not prepared to let another government get it wrong

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

If Labour want a fourth term they have to get rid of Brown. They won't because that would be admitting they got it wrong and no political party does that (no not even your beloved Tories).

Therefore it looks likely that Cameron will be the next properly elected prime minister and that fact alone shows you how bad Brown and Labour are doing as it means the country seems happy to elect a man and a party that still have no clear policies on the economy, law and order, education etc. and can only bang the green drum meaning more tax misery for all of us simply because they aren't the Labour party.

After the damage Thatcher did to the social fabric of this country I will never vote Tory as long as I am breathing and hence I shall not be wasting my time going to the polling station at the next election sad though that maybe. If there is nothing to vote for why vote?

Snazy

7 years, wow you started early dad !
Living in London all day everyday, I personally feel I have noticed a "change". Speaking to friends who are now financially unsure of what they are doing. Working for a large international company whos trade in the UK especially in the City and West End has been heavily affected by the purse strings being tightened by a lot of companies, cutting back their spending etc.

Less people seem to go out (in my social circles for sure)

Not sure that unemployment would have to climb dramatically to signify a dive in the economy. But the UK has sure as hell lost control of its financial bowels as we seem to be dumping money everywhere and making a right mess in the process.
In no economic expert, and would not claim to be. But I know what impacts I have seen, and thats what I base my comments on

Brown, needs to call it a day, and not sit there like he is at the moment on Sky News, constantly changing the subject.

Snazy

I hear where your coming from, however times change, and at some time we all have to move on. A lot has changed in the UK since the Thatcher era, and im sure the labour lovers will scoff, but her reign of power had its positives too.
Dare I quote PSL and say its simply time for the other side to take control now, the winds of change have arrived.

Why vote?? I think London's turnout at the mayoral elections showed that some times its just worth being heard. The larger the loss for the outgoing, the more incentive they have to rebuild and sort themselves out.

lordretsudo

Ah yes, it's not like New Labour have done any harm to the 'social fabric of the country', have they? Unrestricted immigration, an ever-increasing vast, bloated welfare state, destruction of pensions, deteriorating educational system, total lack of proper punishment for serious crimes whilst constantly victimising the motorist/petty offences, cravenly handing over sovereign powers to the EU, etc, etc, etc... And that's without even mentioning all their other dropped bollocks like over-taxation, house prices, the NHS, Iraq, and so on...

Snazy

And thats the tip of the iceberg. Lets move on eh, and get some fresh blood in power for a term or 2, and get stale thinking, ignorant people out.

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Yawn, the usual crap trotted out whenever someone dares question electing the Tories. Much of what you say is true of both this government and the previous government, but most of you seem to have forgotten the damage done by the previous incumbents.

In 1997 I heard people like you saying we need a change etc. etc. etc. Well we got one and now 11 years on we are right back where we started.

They are all self serving greedy celebrity politicians no matter what colour rosette is pinned to their stupid pompous self important chests and the only certainty is while they are allowed to run the country (no matter which party) nothing will ever get better until one party stands up for the good of the country rather than their own careers.

Snazy

Surely we can see that the same stuff can be said about the past of BOTH parties.
Its about NOW not the past.
They both done some unpopular things, but whats best for us NOW

lordretsudo

I have never, and would never, vote Labour, but I must admit back in '97 I thought that nothing could really be worse than John Major's corrupt bunch of goons and actually welcomed the arrival of Blair at No.10... how wrong I was. I think we're in a considerably worse position now than we were then, but I guess it depends on how one would measure such a nebulous thing. Certainly the 'social fabric' you mentioned has been damaged beyond repair IMO.

No arguments there.

DYK

Exactly right,espeacily the self serving greedy part..So the only way out a t hte moment is what the majority of Decent Brits seem to be doing more and more now.Leaving the Country,and sticking two fingers up at it on the way out.

The Zohan

Agree with Setons comments as well

Spot on and finally the masses are waking up to this.


Halleluya!