RussBoy

As some SN regulars who read my threads may have guessed, I am soon to pack up my bags in Spain and head back to the UK again.

Why? Let me tell you this. The UK may well be a ****e hole at the moment. There is crime, crap weather and expensive prices BUT...it's where we're from, and there's a lot going for it. I read a lot on SN about high taxes, high crime, inappropriate policing etc but TBH, you guys should spend 6 months here. Don't get me wrong, I've loved almost every minute of it here but the time is right to return for several reasons, but just don't go believing that just because there's sunshine, there's a great quality of life for everyone. The poorest is Spain are VERY poor, taxes are very high if you are self employed and policing...well, let's just say it's firm but relatively fair. You wouldn't give a copper lip here, put it this way. Also, whilst healthcare is very good, for me as a diabetic I have to say it's so much easier under the UK NHS where records are portable and there are specialist trained doctors etc.

The Euro rate has worked really well for me and it's actually the success of my business which I set up just before leaving the UK three years ago (and which I have been running in Spain since) which has helped persuade us to return. You can't run a successful business in Spain targeting the British in the UK if you are reliant on good telephony and internet access...we have power cuts every week, and telephony can go down for days at a time, particularly if it rains etc. Just one of the daily frustrations.

The one thing I've certainly learnt being here is that I actually really like the Germans! Whilst still perceived as a threat to so many in the UK, I can honestly say they have got to be one of our biggest allies now. They are friendly and respectful to the Brits, and not as half as lazy as many of the Brit expats I've met here. Some of their women are complete stunners as well , plus as a rule, most Germans here speak English and Spanish as well as their native tongue...I'm not stupid but have struggled to learn Spanish but to know 3 languages? That puts me to shame, and many of these guys just work in menial jobs for low wages.

Anyway, 10 more days in the sunshine until I leave for the 4 day drive back. I may well return here in the next 18 months (during which time I have a tax amnesty if I reinvest in new property) but I'll be interested to see the UK now from that which I left 3 years ago on a full time basis! I've a little fear, a little apprehension but boy, I've had a great adventure this last 3 years!



R

Reality

This blokes a nutter

Welcome home (soon)

FlightMan

Stay where you are!

Dieseldog

Agree about the Germans. In my experience (worked for a German co. in Gottingen) they really like the Brits - appear to think of us as their European cousins. And if you turn up in a tatty old Barbour they think you're landed gentry

And in return we have the Daily Mail writing stories about Hitler...

Wish

iTrader: (2)

I remember your post about moving away.
Without going in to too much personal detail, what are your main reasons for coming back.

What have been the +'s and -'s of your stay abroad?

RussBoy

To be honest, when we left we were 90% certain it was the right thing. Coming back it's probably 55% so much more marginal but I guess we've learnt that it is really very simple (especially for us with no kids or major UK committments) to come and go as you please etc. We'd like to think we will live abroad, possibly somewhere else, within next 5 years but elderly in laws are preventing a long migration currently (and part of the reason for coming back) but I wouldn't rule out Italy or possibly France at some point.

Over all positive experiences:

Learning there's more to life other than just what we have been indoctrinated with. The first 6 months can be scary as you struggle to understand customs and culture etc but after that you start to realise these guys are no different to us, they just have different upbringings etc.

Also, there is sooooo much more respect here. The Spanish may take the **** out of our accents, sunburn etc but Spanish youth will always respect all elders, and even if they don't like the English (not all do), they will at least show you respect. There's 2 ways of saying 'you' here...the informal way which you'd use for mates etc and a formal way when talking to the bank manager etc. If you learn some Spanish and apply the formal way to the old dear serving beers etc in your local, and the checkout girls in the supermarket, they think a hell of a lot of you. For me, it's just an extension of my own upbringing which despite being very poor (inner London in the 70's) was nevertheless very respectful.

I love the climate here, it's amazing but don't be fooled it's always hot. To be fair, it's been ok this winter as we are on the coast near Malaga currently but last 2 winters we were in the mountains and without proper heating it can get feckin cold there.

Food has been great. Quite funny actually as when I used to visit here as a teenager I always got the bellyache. Now of course I am used to it but when I've been back to the UK this last couple of years I've always gotten ill there. Just time to adjust I guess.

Now the bad bits:

There are soooo many problematic expats here. If it weren't for the Brits here the place would be a better place. I had this conversation yesterday with my bank manager actually and he thought it funny I was saying this and admitting i was part of the perceived problem. Expats here are either a/ always running away from something or someone, b/ criminals, c/ non tax payers, working on the black whilst the rest of us (who have also taken the time to learn Spanish) have to defend our nationalities respect in bars etc with the locals and d/ they are a lazy bunch. They'll all whinge and moan they work so hard but in truth, I know very few expats who really do a proper days work and to be honest this REALLY gets to you after a while. They also cause lot's of trouble and like to bring their own 'culture' to the country. That's not true everywhere of course, but TBH, it's not the oldies who are the problem, it's more the younger lot.

Also, to start with you are going to be targeted here. We arrived with no or little spanish and no idea of culture or goings on. We aren't even catholics and this is a devout catholic country. Once you start learning Spanish, you'll earn lots of spanish pals but there are always some who will target the expats. There are lots of aggravated violent burglaries going on against expats here currently (read my shoot out posting of 10 days ago) and high jackings/car jackings on motorways are not unusual. I'm 36 and a lot bigger than most Spanairds and I can honestly say I've never felt personally threatened but I have seen guns used here and there is a climate of suspicion and fear in some areas. It's a different sort of crime...you'll walk the streets with no problem and your kids will be safe anyway at anytime of day or night but if you're perceived to be wealthy and are physically vulnerable, you're going to be noticed, again especially if you don't integrate.

Finally, technology. Spain is a lovely place, generally very friendly and have a proud culture but they is a 'manana' attitude. There is no urgency and no one will ever accept responsibility. Living in Spain and still effectively working for the UK causes greater problems as your 'bar' is higher. You get used to it but it is an annoyance. This may be why I've grown fond of the Germans and vice versa.

As I say, and to summerise, it's a great place. Possibly too great a place to settle down when still young (I was 33 when I came here, 36 now) but I am really grateful for the opportunity. Would I do it again? Yes, but I'm not sure the answer would be the same with kids as it's been easy for us to move to where we have loved living whereas with kids we would have been far more restricted. If thinking of heading to Spain or any other country to live, you HAVE to learn at least some language and be respectful of all they do even if you don't agree with it. It's their culture you are joining and if it means watching a pig sacrifice (or worse), you just have to grin and bare it...

davegtt

Glad to see someone knows what theyre talking about rather than taking the easy stance of saying its all rubbish here in the UK.

Wish

iTrader: (2)

Thanks for the insight ... And have a safe Journey home

movi-star

iTrader: (1)

Very interesting post.

Also agree re Germans, particually german girls..........always most accomodating!

RussBoy

Cheers! We'll be sort of neighbours again actually...settling in Chiddingstone (nr Sevenoaks/Tonbridge) to start with...

Varboy

I've commented for years how apparently ironic it is that the English move over to places like Spain, in their droves, enforcing their culture on the community they land in. This is of course the very same grievance that English people voice when those of another nationality move to the UK.

RussBoy

Absolutely. I remember the day it sunk in that I am an 'immigrant' here in Spain. I obviously always knew I was but just hadn't expected to be addressed as an 'Extranjero' by the locals ('foreigner', but not in a nasty way). It'll add a different perspective to things in future for me, I think.

Ray T

Russboy,
Have some friends in Hever, ones actually german! they put on some good do's in the village hall and I'm not talking tea and cakes, let me know if you want to go on there e-mail list of events.

Ray t

RussBoy

Ray - I know Hever really well...I used to frequent 'The Henry VIII' before leaving blighty 3 years ago (and my friends own 'The Greyhound' nearby!) Small world! Not sure if my email address is in my profile, but if not, and if I haven't heard from you I'll PM you my email address....many thanks!


R

PaulC72

RussBoy, may I say what a great post you have written I thnk it is very worthwhile reading a post put so well from a real point of view.

Living in Spain is something we ourselves have discussed, well I discussed it and wifey listend and it is always beneficial to know what real life is like out there, although we are going to possible start with a holiday home fist while we learn some of the language, I admit I have been ignorant to other languages but now I am older myself I have an interest plus my daughter knows spanish well and she is only 13..damn...

As far as your points on being targeted for buglaries I thinik that it doesn't matter where you live as criminals will mostly target this type of person as it is no point robbing a poor person.

in cnclusion whereas I understand you must have pretty big reasons to uproot again and come back to England I do think you must be slightly mad hehe. howevers like you say it is easy enough to do it again.

I wish you all the best m8y.

The Zohan

Yup,

Worked with a few Germans in Dubai - mostly great people, friendly, generous, great sense of humour and hard working and a lot like the English in many ways.

SiPie

All the best Russboy with your decision

Well balanced post

RussBoy

Thanks guys, I appreciate all your kind comments

Actually, nature is making the move back easier...it's raining today for the first time in ages, and only about the 3rd time this year, and Spain when miserable weather wise is quite depressing (just waiting for the internet and electricity to go off now!)


R

Diesel

You are a great export Shame not all ex-pat Brits are the same as you - some are proud that they havent learnt a word of Spanish in 40 yrs! Bon viaje! D

RussBoy

Muchas Gracias mis amigos! Today was a bad day. I went back to the first village we lived in for 2 years, up in the mountains and said a final goodbye to all my Spanish pals there (virtually all Spanish in the village). Lots of tears (the Spanish are such babies ) I feel that both my wife and I and the spanish villagers learnt from each other though and we actually felt like their 'vecinos' (neighbours) as opposed to outsiders by the time we had left. There's definitely one or two of the Spanish lads working 'babe' into their chat up repertoire now!

I also spoke to the old boy who lived opposite (15 minute conversation) and shook hands etc which was ironic because despite my far from perfect Spanish, he understood (I think) everything I was saying whereby 3 yrs ago all we could do by way of communication was smile and wave. Definitely sad, but maybe I should add this to my list of 'positives' further up the list...Good knows what I'll be like next Friday when we set off in the car for the journey back!


R

Steve Whitehorn

iTrader: (13)

Funny that Russ
I am coming back from Germany after 3 years.
Great people and a great place - but it isnt home.
Far better than the Uk in many respects. But sunday lunch, country pubs and everyone understanding me bekons.
Perhaps we should meet up when I get back - as its been a few years

Steve

RussBoy

Blinkin spooky that Steve. Was thinking about you in Germany today! Yeah, beer sounds a good plan! Where are you going back to...Brighton?

Ironic your lists of things you miss are very similar to mine also...but you missed 2 others off (probably different in Germany on both counts) - Cheapness of nice cars and ability to maintain and mod them without dents, whacks and the suchlike, and British women. Have definitely missed a stroll down a UK High Street on a warm summers afternoon

Steve Whitehorn

iTrader: (13)

No Canterbury ...will be in Brighton a fair bit though.
Cars are cheaper in the UK. The wimmin are cracking where I am though...a bit up them selves at times. Nothing wrong with a nice British bird though.
I am back early June.
A bit spooky definately!
Are you still doing online stuff - as thats what I am up to
steve

RussBoy

I'll book out a beer or 2 in June then! I've been running a web design and SEO firm for 3 or 4 years but I have a new additional project which will be right up your street and not too dis-similiar to what I was up to before so we need to chat. Stay in touch and let me know when back, and have a good journey back as well yourself!


R