boxst

Alcohol seems to be constantly in the news in the past week: how bad binge drinking is (don't disagree with that), how off-licences will lose their licence if they sell to underage people (that is okay as well), but the thing that I noticed is the 'war' on supermarkets to not discount alcohol and that low price is the root of all evil.

I can see this as setting the groundwork for a massive increase in alcohol tax. What do you think?

Steve

fitzscoob

I dont see how increasing the cost of alcohol will stop binge drinking. The price of cigarettes has gone up considerably, even banning smoking inside. All of my friends that smoked before still smoke...

If people want a drink they will find the money for it.

Paul3446

The chavs will just start stealing it instead of paying for it!

richs2891

Yes there probably will be an increas on booze come budget time, but will it reduce binge drinking, NO,
but as its easier just to hike the price and make lots of noise about it and then have a goverment backed study into the causes of binge drinking which wont reach any conclusive results - we will go down this line !!

Richard

boxst

Yes I agree, I just think it'll be an excuse to get more tax in a similar way to the 'green tax' increased the price of fuel.

Steve

davegtt

Agreed with Steve that its just another excuse to tax us more on something. Will hit a few of us hard in the pocket who can drink alot but still know how to behave.

Luminous

iTrader: (3)

As above, just another tax to make the people who work pay more. It will do nothing to stop the young from getting drunk.

Teenage chavs already do not have sufficient money to get hammered regularly on average pocket money. Most of these people are up to no good to feed their habit as it is. In much the same way that a heroin addict can somehow manage to fuel their £100 a week habbit, but not have a job.

Overall I expect that Brownose will get more tax, but at the expense of more crime as the young steal to get more to get what they want.

If you want to stop the young from drinking, increase the minimum age limit and clamp down on off licenses.

PeteBrant

Course there is always the option of not drinking - I mean the tax isn't compulsary.

And if a bottle of wine costs 50p more than it did, i dont know about you, but I reckon I'll be able to manage that cost.


As for reducing the ability of teenagers to buy lots of alcohol, of course it works. If they current can afford 4 cans of lager, but after the udget can only afford 3, then it has an effect.



Smoking bans work in terms of reducing the number of smokers, and of course secondary smoke related illness.

Smoking ban brings big cut in heart attacks in Scotland, study finds | UK news | The Guardian

Luminous

iTrader: (3)

Do you really think the kids who drink only 3 or 4 cans of lager are the ones that are causing the problems? The binge drinking issues we have stem from the people who are regularly getting hammered. More like 3 or 4 gallons of beer for some of them (well maybe a small exaggeration).

The law abiding teenagers and students may end up drinking a little less, but across the board there will be no change. I believe that no change will apply to the very people this is aimed to stop. Its just going to cost us all more, and the problem will still remain.

Not to mention the extra hassle at ports. The UK already has higher prices than our immediate neighbours, so you can be sure there will be more aggressive checks to ensure alcohol is for personal use etc.

Not to mention that our immediate neighbours, who have cheaper drink, don't have this binge drinking culture. Compare and contrast that to countries that have much higher prices, prices that are set this high to try and stem a drinking issue within their population only to find that it failed.

There is no direct correlation between price and binge drinking cultures/alcohol fueled violence.

Paul3446

As usual with this government they are just tweaking the system and making big headline announcements that make no difference at all.

If you want to stop alcohol related violence, the solution is simple. Instead of the £80 fine you get now for disorder offences, you should be fined £1,000 for any disorder offence caused by alcohol.

A couple of those and you wouldn't be able to afford alcohol for quite a while anyway.

I would also make people pay for A&E treatment for alcohol related admissions.

This way, you are punishing the muppets who get slaughtered every night and not Joe Average who just has a couple of glasses of wine in the evening.

davegtt

How do you police this though? Someone who might be intoxicated but still happens to be the victim of an assault commited by a drunk. How do you know who is to blame? The police are hardly the nicest of people to talk to no matter how polite you try to be if they smell or know youve been drinking.

stilover

The Governments plan is simple. Tax. Answer to everything.

However taxing alchohol isn't the answer to stop binge/underage drinking, and the Government know this. It's just the perfect excuse to collect even more tax from the already over taxed British tax payer.

If Labour are voted in again I expect income tax or National Insurance contributions to rise again. This Government is hell bent on getting as much tax from the british tax payer as possible.

Klaatu

Probably saving up to buy a luxury dewlling on "Palm Island" off the coast of Dubai!

Paul3446

Quote:
"How do you police this though? Someone who might be intoxicated but still happens to be the victim of an assault commited by a drunk. How do you know who is to blame? The police are hardly the nicest of people to talk to no matter how polite you try to be if they smell or know youve been drinking."


Give them a breath test and have a limit about twice the drink drive limit, if you fail, you pay. A small percentage of innocent people may get fined, but to be honest, they are still p*ssed and should accept that they shoul pay for their treatment.

davegtt

Youre paying for the service via the higher tax youre paying though surely? Its the same as the smokers arguing how much they contribute to the government each year on tax compared to what the NHS spends looking after smoking related illnesses.

Paul3446

You have a point, but if you want to tackle binge drinking you need some tough measures.

If you want to continue down the spiral we are on, then you can keep going on about how unfair tis could be to a small minority who get caught up in the fines. But as I said, I've not got much sympathy, they are drunk, end of!

davegtt

Who says I want to tackle binge drinking? no different to chain smoking, if I want to go in the pub at 5pm on friday and drink until I fall over surely thats my choice, I know I can do it without going into town and causing trouble for the public or the police etc. Id want to concentrate on stopping 15 year olds in the parks drinking crates of lager every night.

Paul3446

How many times have you had to go to A&E when drunk?

Paul3446

Quote:
Who says I want to tackle binge drinking? no different to chain smoking, if I want to go in the pub at 5pm on friday and drink until I fall over surely thats my choice, I know I can do it without going into town and causing trouble for the public or the police etc. Id want to concentrate on stopping 15 year olds in the parks drinking crates of lager every night.


And you don't see the connection between the 15 year olds in the parks drinking lager and the 25 year olds in the pubs getting hammered?

davegtt

Once when I randomly picked up an eye infection and it swelled up like a ballon inside 30 minutes (no I wasnt hit by anybody) and once when a friend of mine was attacked by a group of guys in the toilets. Other than that I cant recall although I did kick a football machine as hard as possible when intoxicated, missing the ball and kicking the metal bar, I attended the hospital when I was sober though

PeteBrant

Precisely - You can't start charging on the spot for treatment.

davegtt

No because the 25 year olds dont go wandering the streets in gangs jumping on some guys head on his walk home etc or hanging on street corners being a nuisance to those having a quiet night in.

PeteBrant

Thing is, apparantly, the new licensing laws, overall, have had a positve effect on drinking related incidents.

I also don't think it is a particularly new phenomenon - I was certainly getting drunk in the park at 15

Klaatu

Monkey see, monkey do.

MikeCardiff

iTrader: (2)

Drinking per se isnt the problem, its the way a minority act when drunk. I've said before that the only thing these people really understand is being hit in the pocket.

For a first D&D offence fine them £100 ( plus 10 hours community service, cleaning up drunks sick and pi55 from the town centre ) next one £200 plus 20 hours, next one £400 plus 40 hours and so on. Dont let them pay back 50p a week, take it directly from their wages or benefits ( all of it until it is paid back ) or repossess their car, big screen TV etc... until its paid off.

Also make parents more responsible for under age drinkers - a lot of these teenagers are having the drink bought for them by parents - if this happens and the teenager causes trouble, fine the parents £1000 a time and see how quickly they stop the supply.

Extra taxation wont stop the problem, stopping people drinking who cant do it responsibly will.

stilover

You need to start watching `Street Wars`.

Lots of boozed-up 25 years olds in gang kicking the **** out of people for no reason.

Klaatu

You'll infringe some "rights" somewhere along the line with that policy!

davegtt

Id say youre looking at 18 year olds on Street Wars IMO. Majority of 25 year olds I know have grown up and matured now

stilover

Me too. Drinking in pubs at 16

The problem isn't cheap alcohol, ist's the mind-set of the person consuming it. Most people go out on a night and know their limit. The problem is people going out on a night to get as wasted as they possibly can. No amount of tax will stop that. The only answer is to totally ban alcohol.

Or do as the Government want to do. Tax the majority to "Try" to stop the minority.

PeteBrant

I would say that street wars cannot and should not be taken as anything other than anecdotal evidence - By its very nature, it is going to show the most extreme and visual incidents. Its not going to show a group of blokes walking home from the pub strolling along and chatting.