Diesel

Popped in to a CoOp to get a sarnie for my lunch on my way to a job in Cheltenham on Sat morning. Bit of commotion at one of the checkouts, but, as I was quite far back in the long queue I didn’t pay much attention. Little bit later I stepped forward out of curiosity and there was an old lady flat out on the deck by the till. Well cut a long story short, got someone to help me pick her up and get her sat down with legs up, and she was so apologetic for ‘being a nuisance’; love her. Anyway, again to cut a long story short, after a few chats and her coming and going in consciousness. she eventually ended up being fully unconscious white and limp. During these chats I had to call an ambulance as the only other person that offered to call one couldn’t get a signal. Got another chap to hold her head and the security guard to try to chat and re-assure her.

Ambulance came pretty quick (after some daft questions on the phone that assumed I was her relative and knew her history and WHY did I think she had had a stroke (only a punters guess mate…)). When ambulance came I rushed out to get them in asap and told them what I’d seen.

I’m not actually sure she died, but could feel no pulse towards the end and she was totally unconscious and white. Guess I’ll never know as I’m not family and cant call the local hospital and ask how Pauline fared. Any Docs here – odd that she did seem to recover for a bit after the initial unconsciousness? She did make a big chesty noise before going totally out.

I didn’t really know what to do (and should probably have left her on the floor and covered her with a blanket it seems) but she didn’t seem to have had a head bump (checked her and with cashier) and was quite lucid then and really wanted to get up – looked like she’d just fainted.

Just got me that people were so indifferent and simply stood and stared. The CoOp carried on business as usual and there seemed to be nobody there trained in first aid. Bit horrified that if that happened to be my Mum and the only person willing to take an interest was someone late for work and from 100 miles away.

Wonder how she got on; wonder what it was. Really didn’t look good.

D

B-B

Good on you D. Your quick thinking got her help as soon as possible and your caring gave her comfort at a time when she must have been terrified.

jods

I think that is where the phrase "She Croaked" comes into play

Good for you trying to make her comfortable, I hope I am wrong but I think she probably threw a 9.

Diesel

O Christ, yes. You are prob right - that's where that saying comes from isnt it Bit shocked now really.

D

Shark Man

Spot on. I know all to well about the gawpers.

The factory unit next to door to my works caught fire on Satuday - BIG TIME. So cars passing, slow to have a look - as they do.

But to take it one step further, people actaully parked up to look, some had parked their cars right in front of the fire hydrants, and one fat bint who parked up BLOCKED THE ENTRANCE road to look at the fire. That combined with the other parked cars. It caused a traffic jam and slowed the fire engine getting down the street, and also meant it couldn't pull in to gain acces to the factory unit

How stupid is that? Grrrr.

I used every swear word in my vocabulary to get her to move, and she just looked blank faced - until the fire engine arrived behind her blew the siren and horns at her

And out of all this useless lot, it was only me and several of my work collegues that went down to the unit to make sure the guy (who usually works on his own on saturdays) had got out - which he did.

Credit to the bloke who came running with the hose pipe though, admittedly a garden hosepipe was a bit useless against 40ft flames, but hey ho

Diesel

Thinking about it afterwards there is truth in that you know. Maybe a medic could suggest what was wrong with her (it def wasnt a heartattack) but my mother in law (a qualified sister) said I should have left her there on the cold tiles with a blanket over her in a recovery position. At least I live and learn.

D

little-ginge

I always thought it there had to be trained first aiders in public places such as stores.. according to the HSE though, the HS regs do not oblige employers to provide first aid for members of the public

It is amazing how many people just continue on with their own lives, rather than attempt to give assistance.... you did what you could for her, and you should be proud that you had the respect, and thought to step forward to help, rather than just gawp

Hopefully the 'big chesty noise was just an involuntary noise from whatever ailment she was suffering, andwasn't her final moments...

Turbohot

I wish there were more like you, Diesel. Cheers for your compassion and your sense of immediate duty for someone who you barely knew.

renny

iTrader: (2)

Nice one fella,at least you were there for her when she needed someone the most - respect

Diesel

Thanks mate - nothing special - I just though most of us thought like this

D

little-ginge

I agree with you there, D.. it would make an interesting poll though

Turbohot

About the First Aid, many retailers/businesses are told not to perform First Aid(even if they are trained, usually only certain staff members are priviledged to get First Aid training; those trained ones could have been off duty today <shrugs>) but to call an ambulance, as they don't want to become liable, in case their assistance goes wrong. Shame but true.

jods

I'd like to think I'd react in the same way you did. It is a sad sign of the times that people are afraid to help, for fear of being sued later in the event things do not end up all rosy. I would probably avoid trying to restart someones heart (especially an old persons) incase I broke a rib or two.

Nothing wrong with putting someone into the recovery position and ensuring airways are clear and offering a comforting word or two in my eyes.

David Lock

Good for you D. I think I can say truthfully that I would have helped and certainly wouldn't have worried about being sued!

Of course it's a shock for others and that is partly the reason they hang around and do sod all. The Coop's attitude and lack of action/leadership leaves a lot to be desired.

Why don't you phone up the store and see if the old girl made it through. I hope so


PS. Of course she could have nicked some frozen peas which she was hiding under her coat and hypothermia struck

jods

Give Peas a chance

Klaatu

Good on ya for doing what you did. Problem is with society today is that people are too "fearful" of getting involved in an incident ecause something might go wrong or you might get accused of "assault". Seen it too many times.

David Lock

Lennonesque

David Lock

The frightening thing is your serious

Turbohot

It's clearly visible that the problem is with the system, not with the people themselves. People are cautious of the negative comebacks what this system offers. That's why they are reluctant to help. Some are driven by compassion and empathy. They will jump in to save others regrdless of the comebacks.Some will give a second thought, or just walk away. Some have selective compassion. Again, shame but true.

scrappydoo

well maybe somebody will do exactly the same thing to you one day when you are in dire need of a good samaritan fella. Lets just hope and pray nothing bad ever happens where you or a relative is in such a terrible situation hey.. Unbelivable!

David Lock

I find this a very depressing commentary. So if this old duck was suffering distress you are saying that you would advise your wife, a trained nurse, to walk away Isn't that neglligence in its own right?

Surely she would check that she was as comfortable as possible and her teeth weren't jammed down her throat for example. She might even do some mouth-to-mouth if she had stopped breathing? Or would she just watch whilst some untrained do-gooder like me messed it up and put her in danger?

I had sort of assumed that even in 2008 that medics/nurses were never entirely off-duty and helping others was their calling in life. I'll think I'll avoid supermarkets from now on dl

Scoobychick

iTrader: (1)

Well done Diesel, it's good to know that there are still people around who will put others before themselves I'm sure that this lady's family (and the lady herself if she's ok) will be most grateful to you. When my Nan collapsed with a stroke and cut her head badly we were very, very glad that a passer by stepped in to help her

To be honest the thought of being sued has always been the furthest thing from my mind whenever I've come across an situation like yours. I've always just jumped in and done what I can to help. The urge to help has always overcome anything else, it's just an instinctive thing for me.

I know she won't post about it on here but yesterday Lee (84of300) witnessed a nasty motorcycle accident on the motorway on her way to work. She stopped on the hard shoulder immediately, called an ambulance, ran across the road, helped the motorcyclist out of the way of oncoming traffic (he couldn't walk and was in a bad way), then sat hugging him and kept him conscious until the ambulance arrived. All this whilst in the middle of the road on the crash barrier which he'd landed on when he highsided! He had broken some ribs, a broken ankle and a broken leg.

By the time she got to work (late) she was shaking and then threw up, in fact she rang me up and was in a right old state. In my eyes she's a selfless hero for doing what she did and thanks to her quick reactions he's hopefully going to be ok

ritchie21

OO-er...been a long time since I did Torts law but......

As far as I recall, technically, a trained professional COULD owe a duty of care to a person in distress if they witness an incident. Therefore, if you, as a trained professional (doctor, nurse, police officer etc) do not intervene to assist and it is shown that you intervention may have made a difference, then you could also find yourselves on the wrong end of a lawsuit. Then it all depends on the judge you get!!

Nurses and doctors if employed by the NHS are technically government employees, as are police officers. Police officers are never really off duty and are expected to offer assistance or effect arrest if they witness something untoward. Had a case recently where a prosecution witness was an off-duty police officer who declined to assist in sorting out what was the incident that led to a serious assault (only minutes later)-had he done what he was meant to, the latter assault wouldn't have happened as those involved would have been under arrest. He was reprimanded by his bosses for not doing what he was obliged to do.

Henrik

iTrader: (5)

Hang on a second now... has someone *actually* been successfully prosecuted for helping someone, or is this just some daft rumour that's now turned into "the truth"?

MikeCardiff

iTrader: (2)

Some interesting views - I think the whole issue of not helping in case you get sued is BS ( I have never heard of this happening, and so long as you follow the correct procedure of phoning an ambulance first, then you are unlikely to make the situation worse ) - for one, as human beings we have a moral responsibility to help people. If you saw someone who had fallen in the canal and was drowning, could you honestly walk past rather than try and reach them / stick a branch out or similar ? Where does the line end ? would you not help a stranger ? not help someone you knew vaguely ? not help your relative or child ?

When I was in Uni we had to do a 'heartstart' course as we worked with electricity, and were given a card to carry to tell people we had done it. The instructor said in theory we could get sued for NOT helping someone if we were in a position to do so as having learned the skills we were also taking on a moral responsibility to use them if we had to.

He also said that if we were ever in the position where we had to use what we had learned, to do so without thinking about it. The alternative to re-starting someones heart is that they would die, so there is nothing to lose.

Turbohot

I have heard of people being questioned by the authorities something chronic about their helpful involvement in such incidents/accidents. Personally, I have jumped in and helped people without thinking of the consequenses. My conscience was clear, I was ridden by just one thought that the person in trouble genuinely needed immediate help. To be honest, I had no problem helping with the inquiries and procedures. As I say, some people are driven by compassion and empathy with no selection button to it.
About the First Aid, one should only perform First Aid if they are 100% sure what they are doing. Otherwise, they should wait for the ambulance to arrive. A friend of mine did perform First Aid on someone who later died. He had to go through some serious interrogation with police, and stay on the edge until forensic report left him clear. That hasn't put him off. He vows to perform First Aid again if it can help someone to survive.

Diesel

Christ guys! All that happened was that we sat her down in a chair with her feet up - not performed some improvised DIY surgery - and you've all turned into lawyers I'd do the same again, and I know that I'd do CPR & mouth to mouth too if needed - esp to rescue a drowning kid maybe. ASlso they can ADVISE you on the phone what to do - I called back for advice (as advised) when she went white.

Tam, the nurse thing? What could go wrong with FIRST aid with a proper trained professional doing it? She's more likely to forget to give drugs out in hospital, whilst at work, and then be sued. Your call, but that kind of thinking isnt part of the society I want to be part of.

D

David Lock

My missus says there are often old ladies keeling over in Sainsburys when she goes shopping

It's either the shock of the prices or more likely 'cos she goes on Thursdays which is pension day!

Seriously she has witnessed this a few times and says Sainsburys have fine tuned procedures to deal with such incidents. dl

Turbohot

LOL it's just that your topic gave a chance to discuss all that

Good thought there, Diesel Goes to show that one need not be reluctant or paranoid to offer help to the needy. There are times when we need to forget our convenience and look after others.

Turbohot

Ironically, Sainsbury's Mother's Day flowers were far too expensive to cater for those little old ladies!
Just a true joke lol