legal bods help please, landord with Tenant problem.
01 February 2008, 08:53 PM
#1
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legal bods help please, landord with Tenant problem.
My tenant moved in 23rd Oct 2007, turn up with only the months rent (say's he'd have the 'advance rent' the following week) after he knew what money was required.
monthly rent £385 (advance rent £485)
On a 9month AST.
he paid Novembers rent on time..... but still no advance rent!
7th December he said he's bank transfered £250 into my account (part of the advance rent)..... this was never done as I found out at the start of the new year.
December 23rd.. no rent paid.
After numerous phone calls telling him he was late with the rent.. him fobbing me off with cash flow probems etc etc he said he would have all the rent + advance rent on the 20th Jan (when he got paid!) + the rent for Januray that was due two days later.
20th Jan came and only £400 paid, said he would have the rest the day after... NO!!
23rd came... he forgot the rent was due... said he would have it Thursday.. NO!
then he said he'd have it friday... You must be joking!!
After my wife spoke to him last saturday he said he would have the rent £385 on tuesday...
some excuse about not being able to get out of work.. so said he'd have it on Wednesday.
Wednesday came and a text arrived to say he hadn't got the money as he only has £60 in his bank! In the same text he said he's been trying to borrow the money of friends etc.. with no luck, then said that he'd try and have it for today/Friday and If he can't it might be best if he terminaes the contract.
Now, where do i stand with getting him to leave.. as he's not come good today.
How many days do you give him to move out??
don't forget, this is him who said he would teminate the contract.. not me asking for possession!
Phil
monthly rent £385 (advance rent £485)
On a 9month AST.
he paid Novembers rent on time..... but still no advance rent!
7th December he said he's bank transfered £250 into my account (part of the advance rent)..... this was never done as I found out at the start of the new year.
December 23rd.. no rent paid.
After numerous phone calls telling him he was late with the rent.. him fobbing me off with cash flow probems etc etc he said he would have all the rent + advance rent on the 20th Jan (when he got paid!) + the rent for Januray that was due two days later.
20th Jan came and only £400 paid, said he would have the rest the day after... NO!!
23rd came... he forgot the rent was due... said he would have it Thursday.. NO!
then he said he'd have it friday... You must be joking!!
After my wife spoke to him last saturday he said he would have the rent £385 on tuesday...
some excuse about not being able to get out of work.. so said he'd have it on Wednesday.
Wednesday came and a text arrived to say he hadn't got the money as he only has £60 in his bank! In the same text he said he's been trying to borrow the money of friends etc.. with no luck, then said that he'd try and have it for today/Friday and If he can't it might be best if he terminaes the contract.
Now, where do i stand with getting him to leave.. as he's not come good today.
How many days do you give him to move out??
don't forget, this is him who said he would teminate the contract.. not me asking for possession!
Phil
Last edited by salsa-king; 01 February 2008 at 09:26 PM.
01 February 2008, 09:17 PM
#2
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Legally I recall a landlord HAS to give 2 months notice to evict, tenant gives one unless by mutual agreement sadly law is on there side.
Also worth bearing in mind I trust you have his deposit {that he didn't pay} held in the DPS as this again could create problems if he kicks off
Best get some big boys round and show him out.
You could goto Rental Property Knowledge - LandlordZONE
Also worth bearing in mind I trust you have his deposit {that he didn't pay} held in the DPS as this again could create problems if he kicks off
Best get some big boys round and show him out.
You could goto Rental Property Knowledge - LandlordZONE
Last edited by PaulC72; 01 February 2008 at 09:18 PM. Reason: more info
01 February 2008, 09:22 PM
#3
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Done evictions route with a solicitor before (total cost for a letter or two £168) - after they go two months in arrears on the rent you can easily do it.
Now I don't take a deposit.
just take advance rent, that way you've not taken a depoist to be put in the DPS (its the way round it told to me by a letting agent of all people)
BUT I've never had any ADVANCE RENT off him at all since he moved in, he's never had the money.
As I say, I'm not looking to evict. he's the one who said he'll terminate the contract.
Now I don't take a deposit.
just take advance rent, that way you've not taken a depoist to be put in the DPS (its the way round it told to me by a letting agent of all people)
BUT I've never had any ADVANCE RENT off him at all since he moved in, he's never had the money.
As I say, I'm not looking to evict. he's the one who said he'll terminate the contract.
Last edited by salsa-king; 01 February 2008 at 09:28 PM.
01 February 2008, 09:56 PM
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You need some proper legal advice, or large friends. Large friends is dangerous and very illegal route that could really cost you if it goes wrong.
I believe what you need to do is seek an emergency possession order from the court, in addition to serving him notice. Just because you give 2 months notice does not mean he is actually going to walk out of the door. You have no right to make him leave without a court order.
I believe the emergency possession order is the fastest way to achieve this. There are requirements that you have to meet in order to file for one, and you must NOT seek costs or any form of compensation from the tenant.
My advice is to prioritise getting your property back. The longer he is there the longer you are without rent and the more damage he can do to your house. In addition, if he has nothing then there is no point trying to recover your losses through a legal route. From a bitter experience the best thing you can do is cut your losses and get him out of your house the fastest legal way you can manage.
I believe what you need to do is seek an emergency possession order from the court, in addition to serving him notice. Just because you give 2 months notice does not mean he is actually going to walk out of the door. You have no right to make him leave without a court order.
I believe the emergency possession order is the fastest way to achieve this. There are requirements that you have to meet in order to file for one, and you must NOT seek costs or any form of compensation from the tenant.
My advice is to prioritise getting your property back. The longer he is there the longer you are without rent and the more damage he can do to your house. In addition, if he has nothing then there is no point trying to recover your losses through a legal route. From a bitter experience the best thing you can do is cut your losses and get him out of your house the fastest legal way you can manage.
01 February 2008, 10:00 PM
#5
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I've not given him notice to leave, he's the one who said we should terminate the contrat.
If we speak with him in the morning and he says he has no money to pay the rent and he will leave, when would he leave... if on is own accord it could take weeks.
If we speak with him in the morning and he says he has no money to pay the rent and he will leave, when would he leave... if on is own accord it could take weeks.
01 February 2008, 10:05 PM
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How this all pans out depends on how well your tenant knows the law. IF he knows it well, or knows where to go for free advice then you are really in for a bit of a ride. The law is on his side, even if he is not paying you a penny. The fact that he has paid you some money gives him even more rights, sorry, but that is how it is. There are some very nasty, but legal, things the tenant can do that will allow him to extent his stay in your house.
Try and talk him into leaving. Think of any method you can, but if you can get him to voluntarily leave then you are in the money. If not, you have to do everything by the book. If it ends up in court you have to prove that every damn bit of paper has been served at the right time in the right way by the right people
These people have been going for many years, and do get the job done. They are not cheap
Landlord Action UK - Tenant Eviction
Try and talk him into leaving. Think of any method you can, but if you can get him to voluntarily leave then you are in the money. If not, you have to do everything by the book. If it ends up in court you have to prove that every damn bit of paper has been served at the right time in the right way by the right people
These people have been going for many years, and do get the job done. They are not cheap
Landlord Action UK - Tenant Eviction
01 February 2008, 10:24 PM
#7
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cheers, TBH, this is nothing morethan we already know at the back of our monds, of course we don't want him to leave if he pays the rent on time, but time is money to us and while he's living there rent free that doesn't pay my bills.
Will see what happens in the morning.. come next week I can intruct my slictor to put pen to paper and get the expensive ball rolling.
Lets hope my tenant doesn't have a friend who knows how to play the system.
Will see what happens in the morning.. come next week I can intruct my slictor to put pen to paper and get the expensive ball rolling.
Lets hope my tenant doesn't have a friend who knows how to play the system.
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01 February 2008, 10:38 PM
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being honest, i would advise you to get him out regardless of what money me may or may not pay. Someone like that only represents the possibility of a major pain in the ****. He may be down on his luck, but as bad as this sounds, you don't want that to be your problem.
If he cannot pay you, he cannot pay others. Most people prioritise paying rent over other bills. So if he is not paying you, then you are likely to have the joys of dealing with utility companies that have cut your house off. No phone, power or gas. None payment of council tax, debt collectors showing up and endless letters off all sorts of credit card companies etc.
You can sort most of it out, but its your time and your hassle.
If he cannot pay you, he cannot pay others. Most people prioritise paying rent over other bills. So if he is not paying you, then you are likely to have the joys of dealing with utility companies that have cut your house off. No phone, power or gas. None payment of council tax, debt collectors showing up and endless letters off all sorts of credit card companies etc.
You can sort most of it out, but its your time and your hassle.
Last edited by Luminous; 01 February 2008 at 10:41 PM.
02 February 2008, 08:45 AM
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totally agree, will see how this morning pans out and give update later.
02 February 2008, 09:17 AM
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being honest, i would advise you to get him out regardless of what money me may or may not pay. Someone like that only represents the possibility of a major pain in the ****. He may be down on his luck, but as bad as this sounds, you don't want that to be your problem.
If he cannot pay you, he cannot pay others. Most people prioritise paying rent over other bills. So if he is not paying you, then you are likely to have the joys of dealing with utility companies that have cut your house off. No phone, power or gas. None payment of council tax, debt collectors showing up and endless letters off all sorts of credit card companies etc.
You can sort most of it out, but its your time and your hassle.
If he cannot pay you, he cannot pay others. Most people prioritise paying rent over other bills. So if he is not paying you, then you are likely to have the joys of dealing with utility companies that have cut your house off. No phone, power or gas. None payment of council tax, debt collectors showing up and endless letters off all sorts of credit card companies etc.
You can sort most of it out, but its your time and your hassle.
I do rent in advance and 150% deposit paid in advance
02 February 2008, 10:23 AM
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I have had lots of bad experiences with tenants, one thing that seems good is that your tenant is not aggressive or ill mannered, he is just giving you excuses which means(not all the time) that he finds you superior. Pick up the phone tell him you can see he's having problem paying the rent and suggest you meet up with him to see how you can resolve this. Go meet him, take a big friend and nicely but firmly tell him that he clearly cannot afford the rent, you will market the property for rental and he should source elsewhere. Tell him its a mutual agreement you both need out and thats the best way for both of you! Just keep on repeating that and the next couple of weeks take few freinds and relatives as prospective tenants at the most inconvenient time possible for him.
If not, then you will have to serve him section 21b notice and two months later if he still hasn't moved out you apply to court for an eviction (or if any part of the rent is overdue for 56 days or more even its a £1 you can serve him section 14 notice and then and then apply court 14 days after)
If not, then you will have to serve him section 21b notice and two months later if he still hasn't moved out you apply to court for an eviction (or if any part of the rent is overdue for 56 days or more even its a £1 you can serve him section 14 notice and then and then apply court 14 days after)
02 February 2008, 10:37 AM
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Or wait for him to go to work. Enter "Your" property and change the locks.
Put notice up on door. Please phone Landlord.
When he phones, ask for all money owed before he can recover his property from the house. If he breaks in, phone the police.
By changing the locks, you are not breaking the law. Do not touch his property in the house, so you cannot be accused of anything.
Cousins are in the property/renting game, and this is what they do.
Put notice up on door. Please phone Landlord.
When he phones, ask for all money owed before he can recover his property from the house. If he breaks in, phone the police.
By changing the locks, you are not breaking the law. Do not touch his property in the house, so you cannot be accused of anything.
Cousins are in the property/renting game, and this is what they do.
02 February 2008, 10:51 AM
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Or wait for him to go to work. Enter "Your" property and change the locks.
Put notice up on door. Please phone Landlord.
When he phones, ask for all money owed before he can recover his property from the house. If he breaks in, phone the police.
By changing the locks, you are not breaking the law. Do not touch his property in the house, so you cannot be accused of anything.
Cousins are in the property/renting game, and this is what they do.
Put notice up on door. Please phone Landlord.
When he phones, ask for all money owed before he can recover his property from the house. If he breaks in, phone the police.
By changing the locks, you are not breaking the law. Do not touch his property in the house, so you cannot be accused of anything.
Cousins are in the property/renting game, and this is what they do.
Thats crazy talk!If there are signed ASts then you could and will get arrested!!! without a doubt, though you are the landlord! The property belongs to the tenant for the contractual time it would Jeopardise your situation if you were to do that!
This can be done had the property been squatted!!!
02 February 2008, 11:28 AM
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Thats crazy talk!If there are signed ASts then you could and will get arrested!!! without a doubt, though you are the landlord! The property belongs to the tenant for the contractual time it would Jeopardise your situation if you were to do that!
This can be done had the property been squatted!!!
02 February 2008, 07:24 PM
#15
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Or wait for him to go to work. Enter "Your" property and change the locks.
Put notice up on door. Please phone Landlord.
When he phones, ask for all money owed before he can recover his property from the house. If he breaks in, phone the police.
By changing the locks, you are not breaking the law. Do not touch his property in the house, so you cannot be accused of anything.
Cousins are in the property/renting game, and this is what they do.
Put notice up on door. Please phone Landlord.
When he phones, ask for all money owed before he can recover his property from the house. If he breaks in, phone the police.
By changing the locks, you are not breaking the law. Do not touch his property in the house, so you cannot be accused of anything.
Cousins are in the property/renting game, and this is what they do.
No proper landlord woud do that as on a AST you can't do ANYTHING like that as its states you have a right to allow the tenant to live there without you entering the property without notice etc etc.
UPDATE:
still no futue forward, Jo spoke to him at 9:30 this morning, he still hasn't got the money and said he'd give us an update at 3pm... has he heck!!
will keep on to him... and failing that get solicitor involed as soon as we legally can. He might move out on his own accord if we're lucky! :/
02 February 2008, 07:37 PM
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this tenant sounds like a right tw@! i'm a tenant, and pay the rent via the bank to the lease company, who then forward it to the landlady. she used a letting agent because she is away most of the week, so any probs i ring the letting agents. i dunno what to suggest you do. i dont know the law at all, but i do know voilence! the violent route would be my personal choice! i suppose you have to persist with him.. once he is out, i would be looking to take him to court to claim your expenses back, for all the lawyers you hire etc.
02 February 2008, 07:39 PM
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You do exactly what I do now, no deposit but 2 months rent up front. It's easy looking back and saying you should have waited for cleared funds before you gave him access, indeed I've done it a couple of times myself but not been caught out.
My advice is different from most of the others. I know the guy is messing about, but he has said you have the option to cancel if you want. I'd say keep things cool, and perhaps offer an increase in rent each month until he clears the advance, or cancel the contract with hm and find someone else.
The last thing you want to do is any kneejerk reactions to evict the guy unlawfully, as stated above the law is on his side. You do have some rent from him, so it's not a total disaster.
My advice is different from most of the others. I know the guy is messing about, but he has said you have the option to cancel if you want. I'd say keep things cool, and perhaps offer an increase in rent each month until he clears the advance, or cancel the contract with hm and find someone else.
The last thing you want to do is any kneejerk reactions to evict the guy unlawfully, as stated above the law is on his side. You do have some rent from him, so it's not a total disaster.
02 February 2008, 07:46 PM
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agree with comment above, saying you have some rent so it aint that bad.
but also diagree, cos the landlord is out of pocket, while this guy lives rent free.
i'm sorry, but i have money problems... and i can give excuses like the best of em, but i always make sure my rent and bills are catered for first.
be firm with him. pay up or get out. regardless of whether he says he will terminate the contract. tell him you TERMS AND CONDITIONS... say to him if your going to terminate, then do it.. dont mess me around, you have 14 days to go, and threaten him with the legal stuff, before you start signing papers and letters. its your house, so u lay down the law. the quicker he is out, the quicker u can get someone in who is gonna pay.. kick him out, dont wait for him to leave, tell him you dont care about the rent, and that you wil sort it out AFTER he has moved out... then you can sort out payments off him. if you sort it out when he isnt in the house, your not going to be out of pocket. if he fails to sort anything, start court proceedings.
but also diagree, cos the landlord is out of pocket, while this guy lives rent free.
i'm sorry, but i have money problems... and i can give excuses like the best of em, but i always make sure my rent and bills are catered for first.
be firm with him. pay up or get out. regardless of whether he says he will terminate the contract. tell him you TERMS AND CONDITIONS... say to him if your going to terminate, then do it.. dont mess me around, you have 14 days to go, and threaten him with the legal stuff, before you start signing papers and letters. its your house, so u lay down the law. the quicker he is out, the quicker u can get someone in who is gonna pay.. kick him out, dont wait for him to leave, tell him you dont care about the rent, and that you wil sort it out AFTER he has moved out... then you can sort out payments off him. if you sort it out when he isnt in the house, your not going to be out of pocket. if he fails to sort anything, start court proceedings.
02 February 2008, 07:48 PM
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From what I have read, he has basically said that if he messes up with the rent he will gladly leave, he has messed up, so ask him to go.
I cant see there being any need for strong arm tactics at the moment, just let him know you have given him a chance, and you have been fair, now its time to pack up and leave.
If he doesnt then start the cogs going as to whatever route you choose to take.
I have found that the tennant who gives the "softly softly" "yes your right sir" "you have been accomodating up to now" "thanks for bearing with me" "cheers for giving me a chance".... are complete twots, and I prefer the assh0le who runs off with two months rent and my central heating boiler anyday.
I cant see there being any need for strong arm tactics at the moment, just let him know you have given him a chance, and you have been fair, now its time to pack up and leave.
If he doesnt then start the cogs going as to whatever route you choose to take.
I have found that the tennant who gives the "softly softly" "yes your right sir" "you have been accomodating up to now" "thanks for bearing with me" "cheers for giving me a chance".... are complete twots, and I prefer the assh0le who runs off with two months rent and my central heating boiler anyday.
02 February 2008, 07:58 PM
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Yes the landlord is out of pocket for the advanced rent, from what I've read the tenant is not living rent free. Considering the advance is a sidestep from opening a neutral account and keeping the deposit in, the landlord is not out of pocket if he followed the spirit of the new law. I guarantee you if the landlord plays 'mr big' on this he could find himself off in a much worse position regarding lost rent, as there are some complete ar5eholes out there.
It's difficult to give advice not knowing the tenant.
It's difficult to give advice not knowing the tenant.
02 February 2008, 08:01 PM
#21
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as said before the guy has no money, so trying to get money out of him is like blood out a stone.
His rent was due on the 23rd Jan... he's not paid it and as i said he paid decembers rent on the 20th Jan.
Does that sound like a guy I would get any money out of??
He's always going to be playing catch up.
don't forget he's never had the 'ADVANCE RENT' either.. that should of been paid with his 1st months rent when he moved it.
it's very hard when someone turns up onthe day he's moving in with only the months rent + his 10yr old lad was with him too... telling you he won't have the ADVANCE RENT of £485 till the following week.
He seemed a decent bloke, so you say.. give me that next week then... that day never came!
Phil
His rent was due on the 23rd Jan... he's not paid it and as i said he paid decembers rent on the 20th Jan.
Does that sound like a guy I would get any money out of??
He's always going to be playing catch up.
don't forget he's never had the 'ADVANCE RENT' either.. that should of been paid with his 1st months rent when he moved it.
it's very hard when someone turns up onthe day he's moving in with only the months rent + his 10yr old lad was with him too... telling you he won't have the ADVANCE RENT of £485 till the following week.
He seemed a decent bloke, so you say.. give me that next week then... that day never came!
Phil
02 February 2008, 08:06 PM
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Well, take him up on his offer and cross your fingers. Next time insist on cleared funds before handing over keys and giving access.
02 February 2008, 08:11 PM
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A chat with your solicitor is a great idea. I would also read all the info on the site I posted up before.
25 February 2008, 06:52 PM
#25
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UPDATE AS OF TODAY
waited till this saturday (two months rent day) for him to have Jan + Feb's rent.
Had phone call to say he'd been paid, got the money but couldn't get it from the back with it being saturday, so wil have it Monday.. today.
went down for 6pm... guess what.. he has no money as he's now had CSA take a load from his wage packet.
SO>>> he can't pay and says he'll leave by the end of the week!
after all the excuses we were thinking he'd come up with we never though the CSA would be one!
oh well if he's gone by this week we're only a month + 1weeks rent down.
waited till this saturday (two months rent day) for him to have Jan + Feb's rent.
Had phone call to say he'd been paid, got the money but couldn't get it from the back with it being saturday, so wil have it Monday.. today.
went down for 6pm... guess what.. he has no money as he's now had CSA take a load from his wage packet.
SO>>> he can't pay and says he'll leave by the end of the week!
after all the excuses we were thinking he'd come up with we never though the CSA would be one!
oh well if he's gone by this week we're only a month + 1weeks rent down.
25 February 2008, 07:30 PM
#27
I'd make sure to be there on friday with some big mates when he does leave to make sure he doesn't strip the place bare - make sure you inspect the property throughout with him as well
25 February 2008, 08:11 PM
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Well I hope he doesnt destroy the place and or run up massive bills that he won't pay thus leaving charges against the house.
It just goes to show sometimes the deposit route works as it give you a little safeguard - no deposit no tenancy.
It just goes to show sometimes the deposit route works as it give you a little safeguard - no deposit no tenancy.
25 February 2008, 08:15 PM
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Bad news Phil. He sounds an utter nightmare.
Let us know what his next excuse will be.... "I've accidently glued myself to your bog seat. Therefore, I'll need to stay for another week please.."
Get a photo of him in case he does anything stupid!
Nick
Let us know what his next excuse will be.... "I've accidently glued myself to your bog seat. Therefore, I'll need to stay for another week please.."
Get a photo of him in case he does anything stupid!
Nick
25 February 2008, 09:09 PM
#30
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he's never paid his adavance rent since he moved in in October, he's never had the money and always gave excuse he'll have it in a couple of weeks.
But never had it.
It's very hard to say no you can't move in when he turn up on the day to move in with the RENT and his son but hasn't got the advanace rent till he got paid in two weeks three, four, five etc etc,