NotoriousREV

This has been bugging me recently so I thought I'd share it with you and see what you think.

The fuel cell is seen as a major breakthrough in "green" technology. By using hydrogen to create electricity, it's only emission is water vapour. Brilliant, we can all forget about climate change and stop worrying.

Except, no one seems to have noticed, that the biggest single factor in the "greenhouse effect" (i.e. the mechanism by which the surface of our planet is 33C warmer than it would be without energy absorption by the greenhous "gasses") is water vapour (or clouds as you may see them called).

Water vapour accounts for 98% of greenhouse gasses by volume and is considered to be at least 38% responsible for the greenhouse effect.

So what's going to happen when every house, factory, car, truck and ship in the world is busy burping out it's own set of clouds?

Tidgy

crikey, never realised water vapour ws the main cause

Greenhouse gas - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

y the hell are they attacking co2 then?

NotoriousREV

'cos CO2 is man-made and water vapour isn't.

speedking

We will return to the days of pea souper fogs in the cities.

The vapour you see coming out of exhaust while cars are warming up will be emitted throughout the journey. (I know it is now, but as its hot it disperses before condensing. I believe that fuel cells give out cold water.)

OllyK

Also water vapour is self limiting, when you get too much up there is forms clouds (blocks out the sun) and then pisses back down on the planet as rain.

NotoriousREV

So how will that influence climate change?

Leslie

They will have a water vapour tax!

Les

Dracoro

It'll rain all the bl**dy time lol

NotoriousREV

So more flooding, more extreme weather. We're all doomed I tell ya!

It gets even better when you see how they plan to make the hydrogen to run the fuel cells:

More water vapour AND CO2

Prasius

iTrader: (1)

In the context of this discussion the water vapour is just as man-made as CO2. Anyhow, the vast majority of atmospheric CO2 is naturally occurring.

NotoriousREV

True. Or is it? Would we be adding water vapour to the cycle? I'd suggest so, considering the method they plan to use to get hydrogen (fossil fuels).

Shark Man

I don't understand why they insist on creating hydrogen fueled fuel-cells for cars: When a normal combustion engine can be made to run off hydrogen anyway.

OllyK

It has a major impact on the climate in that, as vapour, it works in the same was a CO2 in other words the radition coming from the sun can pass through easily, but the radiation reflected back from the surface of the earth is reflected back to the surface again as it is now at a different frequency.

However, there is a limit to how much water vapour you can have in the atmosphere, there comes a point where it forms clouds, which reflects the incoming radiation from the sun back in to space as well as reflecting the heat from earth back to the surface. So there comes a point where you can't put any more water vapour in to the atmosphere as it will just fall back to earth as rain. CO2 has an impact at much smaller volumes and isn't self limiting in the same manner.

OllyK

Efficiency I expect.

NotoriousREV

Fuel cells are up to 70% efficient, internal combustion engines nowhere near this figure.

SwissTony

iTrader: (19)

bet there will still be a hosepipe ban though

Brendan Hughes

They'll have exemptions for speakers at the House of Commons though

Nimbus

And that's different from our usual weather how..?

Dracoro

Look out the window!


blue skies aplenty today.

andy97

iTrader: (1)

When its cloudy, it is generally cooler, so the suns radiation must be reflected by the clouds.

LG John

Because they can legitimately tax it. No other reason. This is why I take zero notice of anything today with global warming. The planet will be fine and will take care of itself. If, in doing so it changes (naturally) in a way that makes it inhospitable to man then that is tough luck man kind. Adapt or die.

OllyK

Yes, but also things like the ocan cool more slowly than the land, so they act as a heat sink. The heat they give off at night rather than escaping and cooling things down hits the clouds and bounces back. That's why it's generally cooler on a clear night than a cloudy one.

Shark Man

I suppose the simple solution is to fit condensing units and a water holding tank. And dispose of the condensed water when filling up the hydrogen tank.

Obviously the energy used in condesing the water vapour will affect the system's efficiency. But for the sakes of the planet...

Obvious completely ignoring the cost, energy and enviromental impact in producing, storing and tranferring the fuel (such as hydrogen) to run the thing

Scooby-kid

we won't actually have cars that are MAKING more water, becaue we will get the hydrogen from the electrolysis of water, this is when you break water into hydrogen and oxygen. so all you will be doing is reversing this. so the whole process will be "water nuetral" i.e non used up, and non made (overall)

I think so anyway!
Scott.

Chris L

Excluding the hundreds of millions of tonnes of CO2 emitted by rotting plant vegetation and volcanoes that is

[Davey]

Well luckilly for us Condensation isnt a mind boggling technique so its not exactly going to require any un-imaginable technology to condense the water vapour to.. yeah thats right.. water! So whats the issue?

[Davey]

The idea is the hyrdogen is stored in the cell, its not a fuel its the catalyst.

The fuel will be something like oxygen and natural gas..

Check out Ceres Power, their site is very informative:

Fuel Cells Explained

They have a contract with Centrica (British Gas) to provide home fuelcells (micro generators) in boilers which will run your central heating system AND power your entire house! No need for mains electricity.

Shark Man

That link says hydrogen is the optimum fuel

Not to say that isn't the only viable fuel; but its one gaining the most momentum at the moment.

NotoriousREV

Not according to the quote I out in before. They're going to use steam to generate hydrogen from fossil fuels thus creating more water.

NotoriousREV

No, it's no a mind-boggling technique but is it being done or are we relying on it happening naturally i.e. cloud formation?

If it's the latter, surely it's going to have an effect on climate?