alcazar

iTrader: (2)

While I was In France this October, my other car got caught speeding by a camera van.

They wrote to me as the RK, and I wrote back saying I was in France, so "not me guv", and letting them know that there are three other people in my house with my permission to drive said vehicle and insurance that will allow them so to do. I had asked all three and no-one remembers driving on that day at that time.

I got a letter back telling me they had photographic evidence, but could not send it me unless I requested it, but...........that if I DID NOT request it, they send me to magistartes court for failing to declare the driver[:@]

So I requested it.

Today it came, but the photos are useless. In only the massive blow up can you even see that there is someone behind the wheel.[8-)]

The accompanying letter tells me I MUST respond or be summonsed, and gives me only three options.

1. Name the driver.
2. Accept that it was me and pay up.
3. Say it was me but I want a court hearing.

What on earth do I do now? I've been on Pepipoo, but replies are mixed. Some even think I should accept the points and fine

And hasn't the UK come to a sorry state when these people have so much power?

TIA.

simonbb1328

Do not accept the points.
1. if you were out of country you can easily prove this
2. Is the car in the picture definately yours and not one on cloned plates?

The 3 other drivers, assuming wife n kids etc? Do they have any reciepts from that date or credit card transactions to show where they were?
It is for you to prove to the court that you werent driving which you can easily do by being abroad.
I personnally wouldnt worry about it but would examine the pictures carefully to ensure it is your car, and also then check with the other 3 again

wrxsti280

iTrader: (6)

personally i would send a reply with the names of all 4 people who are entitled legally to drive the car, then leave it up to them to decide what to do, you cannot incriminate yourself, there are laws against that sort of thing, and if you genuinely cant remeber who was driving surely there aint a thing they can do about it.

stilover

Write back informing them again that you were out of the country and therefore you refuse to accept responsibility for driving the car at the said date/time.

Inform them that although you have asked the 3 other drivers insured on your car, none have owed up to driving your car at the specified time.

Inform them that you have all the evidence to prove you were out of the country, and that you will welcome your time in court to prove your innocents.

Ask if they have a form that they can send you to fill in for expenses of lost wages, traveling costs etc, etc for having to defend yourself in court. As clearly you are innocent but they are still insisting you spend money defending yourself.

Maybe worth explaining that you may be inquiring with your local paper as to if they want to follow a story of the Police hounding an innocent motorist even after you have proven you are innocent.

Snazy

Spot on, exactly what I have done in the past.
You cant admit doing it, nor can the people allowed to drive on the grounds of self incrimination, which there is a law defending you against.
You cannot be forced to nominate a driver without proof.

Send them a polite letter pointing out the above, and leave it with them.
I have a copy of a letter I sent somewhere, I will dig it out. Will be a very similar format.

simonbb1328

Also if it is drawn out for more than 6mth nothing can happen

Dracoro

Did the NIP come within 14 days?

Since replies on pepipoo are mixed, I suggest speaking to a solicitor.

I'm aware that companies must legally(?) keep records on who is driving but not sure if this is the same for general public.

mrtheedge2u2

Stick it to "the man"..... haha

In seriousness, as has been stated above, simply provide the evidence you were out of the country and that you will welcome the time in court to prove this.

Jerome

I would send them the names of the 3 drivers, especially as none of them will cough up to driving.

bugeyeandy

Best bet is to let it go to court. Show the court your proof that you were out of the country and a letter from each of the people in your house saying they can't remember being behind the wheel that day.
The prosecutor won't be able to prove who was behind the wheel as their photographic evidence is woeful.
The case should be thrown out and you will get your costs back.
Do not accept the points or fine yourself - you aren't the guilty one.

The other route to go down is to properly quiz the people in your house. Can't be that hard for them to figure out who was at that location at the time and date stated!! Sounds like they might be trying to stitch you up.

stringostar

i would nt let it go to court... the legal system is that messed up, you'll end up with a life sentance!

Leslie

Sign nothing and admit to nothing and provide them with evidence that you were out of the country. Leave the ball in their court and see if they persist in prosecuting you. If they do, go to court and repeat that you cannot name the driver and that you personally were out of the country, thus you will plead not guilty.

I don't see why these plonkers should be allowed to push you around like that. I think they are trying it on!

Les

J4CKO

iTrader: (1)

Why not ask the other three people who was driving it and let them deal with it ?

druddle

Because as the registered keeper you are legally required to identify the driver unfortunately. But as above you are also legally allowed to not "self incriminate".

If it goes to court you may get a PTR (pre trial review) where they decide if its worthwile going to court, summarise the evidence and work out how long they think it will take. Just produce your evidence at this if it goes this far.

As also said above, send a letter back with the proof that you were out of the country.

Also try talking to andy_foster on Pepipoo, he was really helpful with me.

Dave

pslewis

This is clear cut ..... if you can prove that you were in France, it is done and dusted. Tell them that you will attend court with the evidence that you were not the driver.

they have to prove that it was you - or charge someone else, who it could have been.

vindaloo

NOTE: I'm no expert.

There's 2 problems potentially....

1. Failing to respond to a request for information....
2. The actual speeding offense.

The first one is the initial problem. Provide as much information as you can, promptly and assert your own rights. Personally, I wouldn't be signing their form, I'd send a letter, quoting their reference etc. You can set out your reasons for this as "there are warnings of penalities for making a false declaration (and indeed several high profile cases of people perjuring themselves) and you genuinely have no knowledge of the individual who may have been driving".

The worst thing you can do is sit on your hands and let them do you for "failing to provide details".

J.

[Davey]

Name the 3 people, let them all go to court and deny it and you'll be ok

The burden of evidence will be on the court, not you as you were not in the country

Speeding charges always amuse me.. If someone takes a knife from your house and kills someone its not your 'resonsibility' but if someone takes your car and goes 5mph over the speed limit your in for it Sonny Jum!

CharlesW

Try posting on here

Speed, Plod & the Law

There a few BiB and lawyers who post on here and you will get sound advice.

Your main problem is replying to the s 172. You have to name the driver. If you cannot name the driver, you have to show to the court that you have taken all reasonable actions to do so. If you do not reply within 28 days you will be summoned and as I see it there is no defence against not replying. If you say you are unable to say who was driving, you will have to demonstrate to the court, why you were unable to name the driver.

So see a suitably qualified solicitor. It looks as though you will have to go to court. If you have reliable evidence (tickets, credit card slips, hotel receipt) that you were in France on that date, and written statements from the members of your household that they cannot remember who was driving at that time, then you should be alright. The other 3 may not be.

If they decide to pursue the other 3, then the least they can expect is to be interviewed by the police. This may refresh their memories.

stringostar

i dont think the police and court will pursue the other 3, if the bloke who was in france is cleared... this is for the simple fact that it would be too much hard work for the plod to do this. IMHO

3times

With the last NIP I recieved the driver could have been either me or wife.
I replied explaining this and asked them if they could provide any further evidence that may help us confirm who was driving. They sent a bigger photo, but we were still not able to confirm. Wrote back to say this and asked for any further evidence that may help us confirm the driver. They replied that they would not be proceeding at this time.

It is important that you explain you are trying to confirm who was driving and not just denying the offence.

As the RK it is your responsibility to know who is driving your car, apparently, and you could get the same penalty as the speeding for not naming the driver so you need to go through the process of trying to find out who was driving.

King Eric

Surely the onus is on the people you let drive the car here mate? I'd phone them up and pass them the details of the three others....if you can prove you were out of the uk then its up to the court. Don't worry about it! But don't get into the hassle of the NIP coming in 14 days and it taking 6 months etc etc. So many people buck the system with 'my mum was driving' etc on this occasion they should realise that your situation is completely genuine.

There was however a law passed recently for failure to notify or something? As long as you give them the other drivers names, your notifying them!

TopBanana

Write a letter to the police asking, since you don't know who was driving, should you just put your own name down instead. It's an offence to enter false information like this, so I'd be keen to hear what they say.

mrtheedge2u2

Yeah, so you get fined and then busted again for perverting the course of justice... great advice lol

TopBanana

Whose post is that a reply to? If it's a reply to mine then you're talking baloney.

mrtheedge2u2

If he puts his name down and takes the points the police wont give a ****.

If he states it was him and then decides to not pay the fine and stands there and says "it wasnt me... I was in France but put my name down as the other people would not own up to it" the police would be entitled to charge him with giving false testimony and as such perverting the course of justice....

TopBanana

I can only assume you're replying to me.

I suggested he write to the police in order to ask advice as to how to respond. They can't recommend that he perjure himself, so I'd be interested in what they would say. (False testimony is called perjury in this country)