Possible legal matter
19 October 2007, 11:17 AM
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Possible legal matter
Can anyone help although it does seem a bit bad now once I have found out a few things.
In 1996, I gave my son £25,000 which was left to me when my dad died. Now my dad had told me previously that he wished to leave this money to his only grandson to help him on the property ladder but no will was left and the money was left to me. Now I will be honest here, my son did not ask or demand the money when he heard that the money had been left to me. Now shortly afterwards, my son and his new wife were looking to buy a property so I offered to lend them the £25,000. The house they had seen was £50,000 so this £25,000 deposit meant that they could just get a £25,000 mortgage which was a lot more affordable to them trying to take on a near 100% loan on the house.
So I instructed the solicitor who was dealing with their house purchase to draw up an agreement that I was giving them £25,000, now although I had initially said to my son it was a loan, with the purpose of him paying me back one day, I told the solicitor to put my money in as a % of the house, 50% and that my money would be worth 50% of whatever the house was worth in future years. I also put in a term to state that I could ask for my money back at any time. My son and his wife then signed all the papers associated with the house purchase and of course my legal agreement which was put in at the same time.
A few years passed and my son’s wife fell pregnant with twins and my son told me they were going to have to look for a bigger place priced up at £150,000. He said that they had managed to save up a bit of money and although they were getting a bigger mortgage, the house they had seen would become their family home for a very long time. They sold their house for a small loss and bought their new bigger home. My son then became the proud father of twin boys. My son afterwards told me that he wished to pay me back the money he owed me. I told him to keep the money where it was as I did not need it yet. Last year my son brought up the subject again and he wished to pay the money back as he knew I was going to reach retirement and might need it. In the conversation I told him that eventually that money would be his but to leave it where it was.
To me that money was still tied up as a percentage of his home and this year just before I retired, I calculated that if my sums were correct, my money of £25,000 against the £150,000 was worth 16.67% of his present house. Now that his home was worth around £500,000, I thought I was now entitled to £83,333. I knew my son had taken out a £75,000 mortgage when he moved so he had managed to put down £50,000 of his own savings. But I rang him and told him that I was going to change my lifestyle and that I wanted 16.67% of his house, £83,333. My son was shocked and told me that he was always under the impression that he owed me the original amount and over the years he had tried to pay me this money back. He told me that he had the money to pay me back for the £25,000 and always had done since they moved to their new house. However I insisted that he should keep to the legal agreement. I then wrote a letter to him demanding that if he did not pay the full money he owed me, I would take him to court. We have not spoken since.
However since then I have asked my solicitor back for the original agreement that we all signed in 1996 and to my shock, it is just applicable on the old property which had been sold for a small loss. It was in fact an agreement known as a Trust Deed and when the old property was sold, the solicitors should have picked up on the fact that the house could not be sold unless the Trust Deed was sorted out first. However my solicitor had not lodged the Trust Deed details with the Land Registry so it was not referenced as a clause on the property deeds, so when my son sold his old house, he was free and legal to do so. It does look like the money that was in the old house has passed to him legally and I may not have a leg to stand on with regards to my money.
Does anyone know whether I can pursue my claim to 16.67% of his present house?
Or try and execute the Trust Deed on the old property that was sold and claim my money back that way, approx £25,000?
Or will I have to beg for some money from my son now even though I have said some nasty things in the letter and caused a great deal of stress to his wife and young family?
Is it a legal matter or is it now a family agreement over what happens to the money?
Can anyone help please?
In 1996, I gave my son £25,000 which was left to me when my dad died. Now my dad had told me previously that he wished to leave this money to his only grandson to help him on the property ladder but no will was left and the money was left to me. Now I will be honest here, my son did not ask or demand the money when he heard that the money had been left to me. Now shortly afterwards, my son and his new wife were looking to buy a property so I offered to lend them the £25,000. The house they had seen was £50,000 so this £25,000 deposit meant that they could just get a £25,000 mortgage which was a lot more affordable to them trying to take on a near 100% loan on the house.
So I instructed the solicitor who was dealing with their house purchase to draw up an agreement that I was giving them £25,000, now although I had initially said to my son it was a loan, with the purpose of him paying me back one day, I told the solicitor to put my money in as a % of the house, 50% and that my money would be worth 50% of whatever the house was worth in future years. I also put in a term to state that I could ask for my money back at any time. My son and his wife then signed all the papers associated with the house purchase and of course my legal agreement which was put in at the same time.
A few years passed and my son’s wife fell pregnant with twins and my son told me they were going to have to look for a bigger place priced up at £150,000. He said that they had managed to save up a bit of money and although they were getting a bigger mortgage, the house they had seen would become their family home for a very long time. They sold their house for a small loss and bought their new bigger home. My son then became the proud father of twin boys. My son afterwards told me that he wished to pay me back the money he owed me. I told him to keep the money where it was as I did not need it yet. Last year my son brought up the subject again and he wished to pay the money back as he knew I was going to reach retirement and might need it. In the conversation I told him that eventually that money would be his but to leave it where it was.
To me that money was still tied up as a percentage of his home and this year just before I retired, I calculated that if my sums were correct, my money of £25,000 against the £150,000 was worth 16.67% of his present house. Now that his home was worth around £500,000, I thought I was now entitled to £83,333. I knew my son had taken out a £75,000 mortgage when he moved so he had managed to put down £50,000 of his own savings. But I rang him and told him that I was going to change my lifestyle and that I wanted 16.67% of his house, £83,333. My son was shocked and told me that he was always under the impression that he owed me the original amount and over the years he had tried to pay me this money back. He told me that he had the money to pay me back for the £25,000 and always had done since they moved to their new house. However I insisted that he should keep to the legal agreement. I then wrote a letter to him demanding that if he did not pay the full money he owed me, I would take him to court. We have not spoken since.
However since then I have asked my solicitor back for the original agreement that we all signed in 1996 and to my shock, it is just applicable on the old property which had been sold for a small loss. It was in fact an agreement known as a Trust Deed and when the old property was sold, the solicitors should have picked up on the fact that the house could not be sold unless the Trust Deed was sorted out first. However my solicitor had not lodged the Trust Deed details with the Land Registry so it was not referenced as a clause on the property deeds, so when my son sold his old house, he was free and legal to do so. It does look like the money that was in the old house has passed to him legally and I may not have a leg to stand on with regards to my money.
Does anyone know whether I can pursue my claim to 16.67% of his present house?
Or try and execute the Trust Deed on the old property that was sold and claim my money back that way, approx £25,000?
Or will I have to beg for some money from my son now even though I have said some nasty things in the letter and caused a great deal of stress to his wife and young family?
Is it a legal matter or is it now a family agreement over what happens to the money?
Can anyone help please?
19 October 2007, 11:26 AM
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Are you for real!!!
In Summary
You Steal his inheritance
You loan the stolen money to him
Your solicitor F**k's up
and now you want to beg for the original amount back which your Son had been trying to give you anyway
Thank god my parents aren't like you !!!
I will get the popcorn out for the rest of the responses
In Summary
You Steal his inheritance
You loan the stolen money to him
Your solicitor F**k's up
and now you want to beg for the original amount back which your Son had been trying to give you anyway
Thank god my parents aren't like you !!!
I will get the popcorn out for the rest of the responses
19 October 2007, 11:27 AM
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I think you need to go to a Solicitor and try to hammer it all out, and not trust a motoring forum to solve your legal wranglings.
It goes with out saying that your behaviour from day one was pretty rotten, but you didn't ask for opnions on that.
It goes with out saying that your behaviour from day one was pretty rotten, but you didn't ask for opnions on that.
19 October 2007, 11:30 AM
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I think asking your son for £83k now that he has a huge mortgage and twins would be a hell of a shock to him.
Reading your post I assumed that when he offered to pay you back it would be for £25k (The amount you loaned him).
If you want to see you son have to sell his house to pay you £83k go ahead.
My dad did the exact same thing. Lent me £20k to get myself on the property ladder. It is understood that should he ever need it back, it would be £20k, and not the percentage of what my property is now worth. (Though we didn't sign anything).
Reading your post I assumed that when he offered to pay you back it would be for £25k (The amount you loaned him).
If you want to see you son have to sell his house to pay you £83k go ahead.
My dad did the exact same thing. Lent me £20k to get myself on the property ladder. It is understood that should he ever need it back, it would be £20k, and not the percentage of what my property is now worth. (Though we didn't sign anything).
19 October 2007, 11:35 AM
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Your father asked that the the money be given to your son... yet you decided to lend it to him as some sort of investment instead??
You sound like a class 'A' ****bag
If I were your son I would give you back the £25k entirely in £1 coins and never speak to you again... thats assuming I was in your sons position of never knowing that the money was supposed to be GIVEN to me in the first place....
If I was actually aware that it was supposed to be given to me, and you had stolen it, then you would get £0 and still not spoken to.
You sound like a class 'A' ****bag
If I were your son I would give you back the £25k entirely in £1 coins and never speak to you again... thats assuming I was in your sons position of never knowing that the money was supposed to be GIVEN to me in the first place....
If I was actually aware that it was supposed to be given to me, and you had stolen it, then you would get £0 and still not spoken to.
Last edited by Freak; 19 October 2007 at 11:39 AM.
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19 October 2007, 11:37 AM
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"In 1996, I gave my son £25,000 which was left to me when my dad died. Now my dad had told me previously that he wished to leave this money to his only grandson to help him on the property ladder but no will was left and the money was left to me."
I cannot believe I have read this. You should be ashamed of yourself. What makes you think you should profit from his entitlement? If you dad instructed you to pass the sum over to your son then why did you not do this? End of.
To then try and grab a % sum from his property is disgusting. I'm glad the legal side of things have been messed up and how dare you do such a thing in the first place.
Money is indeed the root of all evil.
Esh
I cannot believe I have read this. You should be ashamed of yourself. What makes you think you should profit from his entitlement? If you dad instructed you to pass the sum over to your son then why did you not do this? End of.
To then try and grab a % sum from his property is disgusting. I'm glad the legal side of things have been messed up and how dare you do such a thing in the first place.
Money is indeed the root of all evil.
Esh
Sorry
19 October 2007, 11:47 AM
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19 October 2007, 11:49 AM
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To me I had always put the money in to the house as an investment. My son and his wife signed the agreement so they knew what they were agreeing to.
I need the extra money now as I am selling up and moving hence I need everything I can get.
I need the extra money now as I am selling up and moving hence I need everything I can get.
19 October 2007, 11:53 AM
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Agree with the above. Assuming you're not just trolling, you are a grade 'A' ar$ehole.
You know perfectly well that your father intended the money to go to your son, not you.
Your son offers to give you the money back - twice - and you refuse, instead keeping it "invested" (in your eyes) in his home.
Now you want "your" money back, knowing perfectly well that it wasn't yours to begin with and that money tied up in property is never liquid funds anyway. It's also clear that you and your son have never really agreed what the deal was, otherwise he'd have undoubtedly shoved a cheque in your hand at the first possible opportunity.
You should be utterly ashamed of yourself. Tell your son you're sorry and that he can keep the money, which was his in the first place anyway. If he forgives you, count yourself lucky - and if he insists on paying you back, show him what you've written above.
You know perfectly well that your father intended the money to go to your son, not you.
Your son offers to give you the money back - twice - and you refuse, instead keeping it "invested" (in your eyes) in his home.
Now you want "your" money back, knowing perfectly well that it wasn't yours to begin with and that money tied up in property is never liquid funds anyway. It's also clear that you and your son have never really agreed what the deal was, otherwise he'd have undoubtedly shoved a cheque in your hand at the first possible opportunity.
You should be utterly ashamed of yourself. Tell your son you're sorry and that he can keep the money, which was his in the first place anyway. If he forgives you, count yourself lucky - and if he insists on paying you back, show him what you've written above.
19 October 2007, 11:57 AM
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For a start it wasnt your money in the first place, you know entirely where that money was supposed to go. Your a thief aswell as a con artist IMO.
19 October 2007, 12:06 PM
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And that money was not my sons as my father did not leave a will, hence the money was given to me legally.
I do not want slated, I just want to know where I stand with regards to what money is mine legally.
Can you not understand that I have upset my son so much that he does not want to speak to me.
The only alternative is to go to a solicitor and if he gets a letter from them asking for any money, then that is going to look good isn't it!!!!!
I just want a legal explanation where I stand and I just need my questions answered.
And then I can hopefully sort it out with my son.
I do not want slated, I just want to know where I stand with regards to what money is mine legally.
Can you not understand that I have upset my son so much that he does not want to speak to me.
The only alternative is to go to a solicitor and if he gets a letter from them asking for any money, then that is going to look good isn't it!!!!!
I just want a legal explanation where I stand and I just need my questions answered.
And then I can hopefully sort it out with my son.
19 October 2007, 12:08 PM
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This is absolute quality 
I can't believe you would do this to ur own flesh and blood. It wasn't ur money to begin with. You should have had enough respect for ur own father to respect his last wishes.
I can't wait for Ur crucifiction
I can't believe you would do this to ur own flesh and blood. It wasn't ur money to begin with. You should have had enough respect for ur own father to respect his last wishes.
I can't wait for Ur crucifiction
19 October 2007, 12:11 PM
#26
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And that money was not my sons as my father did not leave a will, hence the money was given to me legally.
I do not want slated, I just want to know where I stand with regards to what money is mine legally.
Can you not understand that I have upset my son so much that he does not want to speak to me.
The only alternative is to go to a solicitor and if he gets a letter from them asking for any money, then that is going to look good isn't it!!!!!
I just want a legal explanation where I stand and I just need my questions answered.
And then I can hopefully sort it out with my son.
I do not want slated, I just want to know where I stand with regards to what money is mine legally.
Can you not understand that I have upset my son so much that he does not want to speak to me.
The only alternative is to go to a solicitor and if he gets a letter from them asking for any money, then that is going to look good isn't it!!!!!
I just want a legal explanation where I stand and I just need my questions answered.
And then I can hopefully sort it out with my son.
He expressed his dieing wishes to you ! He wanted it to go to his Grandson
Just because its not in writing doesn't make it yours
Indeed perhaps it should have gone to Probate so that they can decide
I won't lambast you like those above although I have to say I share there thoughts
If you want some proper advice see a solicitor
19 October 2007, 12:14 PM
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On the issue of the dead dad.. there WAS NO WILL - it was NOT the gandsons money so everyine saying "its your sons inheritance" is talking rubbish - the money was passed to the son of the dead dad under the law...end of.
However, what you did with it afterwards (and in the folloiwng years) was stupid - you say it was a loan yet you say you owned part of the first house, the list goes on and on. You, your son and your leagal people are all muppets to let this happen with YOUR money.
However, what you did with it afterwards (and in the folloiwng years) was stupid - you say it was a loan yet you say you owned part of the first house, the list goes on and on. You, your son and your leagal people are all muppets to let this happen with YOUR money.
19 October 2007, 12:14 PM
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Perhaps you don't want to have comment passed about your integrity, but its inevitable isnt it?
Your old man told you his wishes before he died, you have a moral obligtion to carry those wishes out full stop. He thought he could trust you I suppose. I dont know how you can live with yourself.
I have never heard worse, just do the right thing and forget the damn money.
Your old man told you his wishes before he died, you have a moral obligtion to carry those wishes out full stop. He thought he could trust you I suppose. I dont know how you can live with yourself.
I have never heard worse, just do the right thing and forget the damn money.
19 October 2007, 12:16 PM
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Perhaps you don't want to have comment passed about your integrity, but its inevitable isnt it?
Your old man told you his wishes before he died, you have a moral obligtion to carry those wishes out full stop. He thought he could trust you I suppose. I dont know how you can live with yourself.
I have never heard worse, just do the right thing and forget the damn money.
Your old man told you his wishes before he died, you have a moral obligtion to carry those wishes out full stop. He thought he could trust you I suppose. I dont know how you can live with yourself.
I have never heard worse, just do the right thing and forget the damn money.
What he said